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Rangers feel Stepan is year away,McD ready

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01-11-2010, 03:13 PM
  #76
Kovalev27
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this is so true edge. with the way the cap has changed the games teams can't really have more than 2 or 3 elite players in the lineup and still be able to field a good group around them. so really you are lucky if you have 2 elite forwards an elite dman and an elite goaltender. teams like pitt (malkin,crosby,gonchar, fleury) have it and won. they'll lose gonchar most likely this summer. so you cannot have a stacked top line anymore with 3 elite forwards, and still be able to build a legit 2nd line and a third line behind them. As you said fitting pieces together that work chemistry wise is much more important. right now we've got a waiver guy in christensen and he's centering the top line and its working along with an elite player in gaborik and a converted good center at lw. it may not work forever but right now the pieces fit.

rangers have some real nice talent coming down the pipe. maybe not elite talent but very good talent in (kreider, stepan, grachev, sanguinetti, mcdonagh) that can surround some of the better players that are already here. now personally i still think we'll need that one more elite forward but that's mainly because drury has elite money. give that to someone actually producing at the clip a 7 8 mil a year player should be producing and the rangers would be looking pretty strong right now.

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01-11-2010, 03:24 PM
  #77
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Edge,

I agree completely what you say, but I don't think its more of the game has change rather than the # of teams have changed.

With the expansion of the 1990's we are seeing more and more "2nd" liners now playing the first line. So in essence the definition of 1st liner should change. the skill level of most 1st line players would be less than the skill level of 1st line players 20 years ago.

now say the League decided to contract 10 teams, than what people refer to 1st liners would be more in line (pun unfortunately intended) with what people think they should be. Also if there were less teams I think scoring would go back up as skilled players would be playing with more skilled players of their ilk. Not having a "1st" line player lined up with a "2nd" liner and a "3rd" liner to comprise the 1st line.

this post probably does not make much sense to read, but it makes sense if I could say it out loud.

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01-11-2010, 03:37 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev27 View Post
this is so true edge. with the way the cap has changed the games teams can't really have more than 2 or 3 elite players in the lineup and still be able to field a good group around them. so really you are lucky if you have 2 elite forwards an elite dman and an elite goaltender. teams like pitt (malkin,crosby,gonchar, fleury) have it and won. they'll lose gonchar most likely this summer. so you cannot have a stacked top line anymore with 3 elite forwards, and still be able to build a legit 2nd line and a third line behind them. As you said fitting pieces together that work chemistry wise is much more important. right now we've got a waiver guy in christensen and he's centering the top line and its working along with an elite player in gaborik and a converted good center at lw. it may not work forever but right now the pieces fit.

rangers have some real nice talent coming down the pipe. maybe not elite talent but very good talent in (kreider, stepan, grachev, sanguinetti, mcdonagh) that can surround some of the better players that are already here. now personally i still think we'll need that one more elite forward but that's mainly because drury has elite money. give that to someone actually producing at the clip a 7 8 mil a year player should be producing and the rangers would be looking pretty strong right now.
Just to add on, this is also why, not only can you not pay the money the Rangers are paying to Drury, Redden and Rozsival, but you also cannot overpay for players like Kotalik, and you cannot overpay a Girardi when there are less expensive, but, more talented players like McDonagh and Sanguinetti in the pipeline. It also means maintaining a deep prospect pool.

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01-11-2010, 03:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Edge,

I agree completely what you say, but I don't think its more of the game has change rather than the # of teams have changed.

With the expansion of the 1990's we are seeing more and more "2nd" liners now playing the first line. So in essence the definition of 1st liner should change. the skill level of most 1st line players would be less than the skill level of 1st line players 20 years ago.

now say the League decided to contract 10 teams, than what people refer to 1st liners would be more in line (pun unfortunately intended) with what people think they should be. Also if there were less teams I think scoring would go back up as skilled players would be playing with more skilled players of their ilk. Not having a "1st" line player lined up with a "2nd" liner and a "3rd" liner to comprise the 1st line.

this post probably does not make much sense to read, but it makes sense if I could say it out loud.

I gotcha, it made sense to me.

I think that's a fair argument, but I also think that the players have evolved too. Players are faster, more agile and bigger now. You don't really notice until you go back and look at a lot of games from the 70s or 80s.

Watch Eddie G and then watch a video of Richter. It's almost weird too see.

There were a lot of guys in the 1980's that had limited skills that were netting 20 and 25 goals, just because of how the game was played back then.

You had guys who would literally get into shape during the preseason, as opposed to guys who are in shape all-year long.

I don't know if I necessarily believe that yesterday's second liners are today's first liners and so on. I think there are a lot of different variables that have changed the game. Some of them physical, others strategic. When push comes to shove, i think expansion has had some impact on the sport, but nearly as much as some would argue.

When I look back at the games from my youth, I see a lot of high scoring. But I don't know if I believe the scores were higher because there were fewer, better players, or if the scores were higher because (frankly) some of the games were pretty sloppy.

As a gross generalization, I watch those games and everyone just kind of skates around. Goalies like they are always ready to fall over and in general it looks a lot slower than I remember.

It's really only in the last 8 years or so that the internet, DVDs and satellite/cable tv has afforded the ability to go back and actually see the old games, as compared to relying on memory. I've been rather surprised at what I've seen. My memories seemed to attribute the high scoring to more "speed" and "skill." But when I've watched the videos, the guys don't seem faster or more skilled, they just seem to have less "focus" on them.

When all is said and done, I think the skill level balances itself out. While there are more players, there is also more training involved. While there are more teams, the cap tends to spread the talent around. In the end, I don't know if I buy into the skill argument. I just think the game has changed.

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01-11-2010, 03:55 PM
  #80
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I just think the game has changed.
Its really changed since I started watching/playing. The skating and size are standouts, I don't know how anyone can say to the contrary. And don't underestimate the European influence, its totally there too.

Makes ya wonder what the future holds - Ovechkin/Crosby the NHL standard in 2020?

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01-11-2010, 04:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Joe Thornton is an "elite" center.
Not until he shows up in the playoffs.

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