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01-14-2010, 10:09 AM
  #1
BigFatCat999
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Bucci's idea for a Kovy to Preds trade

I waffle on this because of the talent exchange but it might be something to talk about.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/notebook/_/pa...posals-atlanta

Nashville Predators
Proposed trade: Kovalchuk and Johan Hedberg for Colin Wilson, Joel Ward and Pekka Rinne.

Talk about a market that has never had a superstar. Nashville would receive ample voltage by adding Kovalchuk. Because the above players we would send to Atlanta have low cap numbers, you can add any free agents signed this summer to these players and it ends up being a great return. Kovalchuk would unquestionably sell lots of tickets and bring a major buzz to Nashville.


Would you do it?

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01-14-2010, 10:17 AM
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**** no, for a rental? That's just stupid. Picks, Prospects and a roster player would be all I would give.

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01-14-2010, 10:36 AM
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why bring in a player that's going to bolt for Russia over the summer ? ... makes no cents/sense ... we'd be losing one of our better goalies, one of our better overall players in Ward (just a steady player) & our # 1 prospect ... yeah, no thanks

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01-14-2010, 10:41 AM
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I'm not endorcing this. I think it's a crappy trade but I'm putting it up for discussion.

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01-14-2010, 11:16 AM
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"Talk about a market that has never had a superstar."

I must have been dreaming. I thought I had Nashville Predator Forsberg gear in my closet.

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01-14-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conando View Post
why bring in a player that's going to bolt for Russia over the summer ? ... makes no cents/sense ... we'd be losing one of our better goalies, one of our better overall players in Ward (just a steady player) & our # 1 prospect ... yeah, no thanks
We might lose him anyway. I would guess no more than a half-dozen people know how much money Rinne is looking for next summer, and I doubt any of them post here. Plus, Hedberg is playing the best hockey of his career in front of one of the leagues most porous defenses (I don't think the league tracks odd man rushes given up, but the Thrashers would probably lead the league or be among the league leaders), so everything comes out in the wash on the goalie swap.


It's certainly a thought-provoking trade, if nothing else. Very high-risk, high-reward. I'm just not sure it's the right mindset for our organization right now (if Wilson is actually going to start scoring, he has enormous value), although with Arnott and Sullivan's contracts coming due next year and many of our veteran players starting to show their age, this might be the best opportunity to go genitals-out that we'll have for a while.

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01-14-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belle View Post
"Talk about a market that has never had a superstar."

I must have been dreaming. I thought I had Nashville Predator Forsberg gear in my closet.
I don't think the 15 or so games he played here, especially at that point in his career, necessarily constitute "having a superstar."

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01-14-2010, 12:12 PM
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For me, the hitch is believe it or not Joel Ward. Statistacally Rinne and Ellis have been average but their stats are coming up. Also there is the fact that Pickard is in the pipeline. I think Nashville could do better making a deal fo Poni and a vet defenseman for half the cost and it would make the team just as good.

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01-14-2010, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
**** no, for a rental? That's just stupid. Picks, Prospects and a roster player would be all I would give.


the artcle does assume a re-signing at 9 mil per year x8 years then 2 mil a year for he last 2 years.

I agree it would be an idiotic trade unless that contract was in place, and frankly, even if it was in place, its still idiotic for nashville, not because of who we give up, but because if we tie up 9 million with one guy its gonna be kovy and the Admirals playing here for the next 8 years....

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01-14-2010, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
the artcle does assume a re-signing at 9 mil per year x8 years then 2 mil a year for he last 2 years.

I agree it would be an idiotic trade unless that contract was in place, and frankly, even if it was in place, its still idiotic for nashville, not because of who we give up, but because if we tie up 9 million with one guy its gonna be kovy and the Admirals playing here for the next 8 years....
I didn't see that part. Still as you said we aren't going to be giving out any contracts that big. Mabye I am crazy but if we did said trade I believe we would actually DECREASE our chances at postseason success and of course we lose easily long term.


Here's my deal for Kovy.

Colin Wilson
1st
COnditional 2nd if we make it past round 2 or Conditional 1st if we make it to the SC
Conditional 1st if he resigns.

I realize if he has available at the deadline ATL will demand Kings Ransom and I'm sure this wouldn't even be close to the best deal they could get but personally that's all I would give up.

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01-14-2010, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
For me, the hitch is believe it or not Joel Ward. Statistacally Rinne and Ellis have been average but their stats are coming up. Also there is the fact that Pickard is in the pipeline.
Exactly my thought. Ward is very underrated and could be a key component of a cheap supporting cast. Make it Santorelli or O'Reilly or both and I'm there.

I also think this team could in fact afford a salary like that. Your core would be Kovy, Legwand, Erat, Weber, Suter; up-and-coming supporting cast of Blum, Hornqvist, Ward. Supplement with some cast-offs, young talent and hidden gems. I think Poile could field a competitve team on a $20M budget if he had to so throw Kovy his money, throw Suter and Weber their money, and let Poile figure the rest out later. The only really difficult year would be next with Arnott/Sully salaries.

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01-14-2010, 04:07 PM
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Can't see letting go of rinne. kovalchuk is exactly what we need. A stud that would get everyone in the building for the most part. I never liked the way things are done here.

We have showed numerous times people will go to the game if the team is exciting enough. Kovalchuk will bring in money to this team in more ways then one. I understand they got to be able to afford him first, which has always been the key.

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01-14-2010, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by thejlb View Post
Can't see letting go of rinne. kovalchuk is exactly what we need. A stud that would get everyone in the building for the most part. I never liked the way things are done here.

We have showed numerous times people will go to the game if the team is exciting enough. Kovalchuk will bring in money to this team in more ways then one. I understand they got to be able to afford him first, which has always been the key.
I just want to ****ing win in the playoffs, period ... and when the Kovalchuk led Thrashers made the playoffs ... they were unceremoniously swept out of the playoffs the lone time they made it ... he was awful ... 2 points (1g-1a) in 4 games ... if you're the go to A #1 star on your team & the team relies on you to put up points in the playoffs & you put up those kind of numbers in the playoffs ... I don't want him

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01-14-2010, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I don't think the 15 or so games he played here, especially at that point in his career, necessarily constitute "having a superstar."
If we were to get/take Kovy (I cannot imagine we will), you really think he will be here beyond a playoff run?

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01-14-2010, 05:55 PM
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I'm sure most only would want him if he signed a deal beyond a rental.

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01-14-2010, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conando View Post
I just want to ****ing win in the playoffs, period ... and when the Kovalchuk led Thrashers made the playoffs ... they were unceremoniously swept out of the playoffs the lone time they made it ... he was awful ... 2 points (1g-1a) in 4 games ... if you're the go to A #1 star on your team & the team relies on you to put up points in the playoffs & you put up those kind of numbers in the playoffs ... I don't want him
If you look at the numbers for the rest of the team, it would be pretty easy to see that the biggest reason that team failed in the playoffs is not because Kovalchuk didn't play well, but because they had no business being there in the first place. Take a look at the team's top five scorers from the regular season:

Marian Hossa - 100 points
Slava Kozlov - 80 points
Ilya Kovalchuk - 76 points
Scott Mellanby - 36 points (in 69 games)
Jonathan Sim - 29 points (in 77 games)

I think that disparity speaks for itself.

Their top offensive defenseman was Greg De Vries with 24 points. Hartley was giving power play time to guys who barely even knew what a power play was (the exception being Zhitnik) and the defense was, as has seemingly become tradition in Atlanta, porous all season. The Rangers destroyed that team not because they had better players, only because they actually had a second line that could contribute offensively.

If Buccigross is assuming an extension is in place, I would be all over this deal. We make out like bandits.

Kovalchuk-Arnott-Hörnqvist
Erat-Legwand-Dumont
Sullivan-Goc-Jones
Spaling-Smithson-Tootoo

Weber-Suter
Hamhuis-Klein
Bouillon-Franson
Sulzer

Hedberg
Ellis

The goaltending isn't stellar on paper by any means, but both goalies are playing well. If Hamhuis and Klein can just play decent hockey the rest of the season (or maybe we could do something sensible and try Bouillon with Hamhuis), that team could go places.

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01-15-2010, 07:35 AM
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If we signed Kovalchuk to a long-term deal, then I could see including one of the big two (Blum/Wilson). Otherwise, it would be a stupid organizational decision IMO.

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01-15-2010, 11:57 AM
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I dont like it for one big reason: we give up a lot and there is always a chance he just bolts to Russia. How bad would that hurt us!

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01-15-2010, 12:47 PM
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I wouldn't mind a trade as long as we were able to sign him long term without having to gut the core of the team. I'm not sure that's possible. The idea that Kovalchuk will suddenly cause mass sell out games doesn't really hold much water considering there wasn't a noticeable increase in attendance with Forsberg when compared to previous or following seasons. I just don't see Kovy doing much to increase the self-imposed cap.

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01-15-2010, 01:03 PM
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I dont like it for one big reason: we give up a lot and there is always a chance he just bolts to Russia. How bad would that hurt us!
Buccigross is assuming that the team that lands Kovalchuk signs him to a 12 year, $93.6M extension. Not everyone is as thick-headed as Radulov.

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01-15-2010, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conando View Post
when the Kovalchuk led Thrashers made the playoffs ... they were unceremoniously swept out of the playoffs the lone time they made it ... he was awful ... 2 points (1g-1a) in 4 games ... if you're the go to A #1 star on your team & the team relies on you to put up points in the playoffs & you put up those kind of numbers in the playoffs ... I don't want him
Alot of stats here...

The last time we made it to post season play, our three "A #1 stars" that season produced the following....

Arnott 4G 1g-0a-1pts
Legwand 3g 1g-0a-1pts
Erat 6G 1g-3a-4pts

I dont think one playoff series, IN WHICH HIS TEAM GOT SWEPT, should justify him not being a superstar or being labeled a bust in the post season. Our stars didnt do any better and we had a much better team, IMO.

This season our three "A #1 stars" have produced the following...

Sullivan 47G 10g-19a-29pts
Arnott 37G 12g-14a-26pts
Dumont 40G 9g-22a-31pts

A combined 31 goals for whats suppost to be our #1 line.
Kovy has almost that by himself on a team ranked 23rd in the league.

2008-2009 Arnott breaks a franchise record for the most goals scored in a season with 33. Kovy scores 38 in his rookie season and has beaten that every season since.

Kovys stats over the last 7 years...
09-10 40G 27g-24a-51pts
08-09 79G 43g-48a-91pts
07-08 79G 52g-35a-87pts
06-07 82G 42g-34a-76pts
05-06 78G 52g-46a-98pts
03-04 81G 41g-46a-87pts
02-03 81G 38g-29a-67pts

Say what you will about his defense, the guy can put pucks in the net as well as set up his teammates. He's a game breaker and an exciting player. Who has that title on our team and gets credited as such around the league? He will make this team better.

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01-15-2010, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by goalscorer View Post
Alot of stats here...

The last time we made it to post season play, our three "A #1 stars" that season produced the following....

Arnott 4G 1g-0a-1pts
Legwand 3g 1g-0a-1pts
Erat 6G 1g-3a-4pts

I dont think one playoff series, IN WHICH HIS TEAM GOT SWEPT, should justify him not being a superstar or being labeled a bust in the post season. Our stars didnt do any better and we had a much better team, IMO.

This season our three "A #1 stars" have produced the following...

Sullivan 47G 10g-19a-29pts
Arnott 37G 12g-14a-26pts
Dumont 40G 9g-22a-31pts

A combined 31 goals for whats suppost to be our #1 line.
Kovy has almost that by himself on a team ranked 23rd in the league.

2008-2009 Arnott breaks a franchise record for the most goals scored in a season with 33. Kovy scores 38 in his rookie season and has beaten that every season since.

Kovys stats over the last 7 years...
09-10 40G 27g-24a-51pts
08-09 79G 43g-48a-91pts
07-08 79G 52g-35a-87pts
06-07 82G 42g-34a-76pts
05-06 78G 52g-46a-98pts
03-04 81G 41g-46a-87pts
02-03 81G 38g-29a-67pts

Say what you will about his defense, the guy can put pucks in the net as well as set up his teammates. He's a game breaker and an exciting player. Who has that title on our team and gets credited as such around the league? He will make this team better.
You do realize, that their is a major difference between the Detroit Red Wings & the New York Rangers, right ?

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01-15-2010, 04:30 PM
  #23
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I'd love to have Kovalchuk, but the only way I'd consider it is a trade-and-sign, and I don't see him doing that.

If Poile gives up the farm for Kovalchuk rental, I will beat him over the head with a log.

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01-17-2010, 07:50 AM
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While it's fun to speculate, no way does the ownership give Poile the green light on this trade.

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01-17-2010, 10:15 AM
  #25
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i think ownership would let poile do it, but have to stay under the cap.

if we sign him to an extension, i have no problem giving atlanta erat, wilson, and a first.
if no extension, i would give them franson and a first.

but i'd rather not see him here.

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