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Old
09-23-2003, 12:16 PM
  #51
Brooklyn Ranger
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Originally Posted by jar jar links
relax somebody said they were in the post. i didnt see the game but neither did true blue. messier didnt get benched is the question and the answer is simple. so simple that even you brooklyn can understand it. its a preseason game!! the third game the TEAM has played in three days, they lost 9-1 maybe they were playing out the string. murray is NOT and ill repeat it for you brooklyn NOT ready to play at the nhl level. Messier has not been the problem the past 4 years. the use of messier has been. he hasnt been our worst player. its wrong to bash him or sather after a preseason game. the results dont count.
Then you know what? They shouldn't play these damned "games." If they are for nothing than why bother? Why bother charging me regular game prices? Why bother risking players' injuries? Why bother???????

These games are for getting ready for the season. And you can't get ready for the season by treating these games any differently than a regular season game. They still call penalties, players can and are suspended for their actions in these "games", players win and lose jobs (at least in other organizations) based on these "games" and the results are published--unlike the scrimmages at training camp. Sounds like someone cares about HOW the freakin' games are played.

There need to be changes in Rangerland. Everyone in the organization blathers away about how things are going to be different this year. So, let's get with the damned program and start doing it right. Cause the clock is ticking and soon the games WILL count.

I'm so sick of the lame excuses...It's only a pre-season game...it's only the 1st week of the season...it's only Thanksgiving, there is plenty of time...it's the refs fault...it's the bad ice at the Garden...there's no practice time during the season...there's too much travel...WE ONLY MISSED THE PLAYOFFS BY A COUPLE OF GAMES.

Excuses, EXcuses, EXCUSES....

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:17 PM
  #52
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she's definatly a brooklyn girl, lol.


I agree though, this team has more excuses than dunkin has doughnuts.

Enough is enough, if i did that in my profession i'd be looking for a new one.

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:32 PM
  #53
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[QUOTE=jar jar links]murray is NOT and ill repeat it for you brooklyn NOT ready to play at the nhl level.
QUOTE]

I didn't know you were appointed a NHL scout. How do you know this if you weren't at training camp or in Dallas or Minnesota? Just like everyone on the board wasn't there to see what type of penalty Messier took vs. Murray's

Our few young players may or may not be ready but for you to say he is NOT ready is way off one week into the preseason.

I can name some players that made it deep into last year's playoffs that would be considered NOT ready by your standards

Kurt Sauer- 22 years old

Nick Schultz- 20 years old

P-M Bouchard- 18 years old

These guys wouldn't see Garden ice for years, instead they contributed to successful playoff teams while our "hall of famers" were on the 15th hole at the Westchester Country Club

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09-23-2003, 12:33 PM
  #54
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yeah live in the past typical rangers fan living in the past. guess what its a new season fellas. we are arguing about a future 4th line left winger getting shafted. im saying murray wasnt playing well that night. nobody knows. maybe the call againts messier was a bad call. murray has shown nothing this camp. jeez i wonder why he isnt here anymore. there is no prospect in hockey more overrated than garth murray. Great hes tough so is ryan vandanbushe! at least with messier you know what you are getting, a 4th line center that if used right can be productive. the sad thing is if messier didnt play the rest of the game after his penalty people would say messier asked out because its a meaningless preseason game. the guy gets zero respect on these boards and i will defend the coach and captain every post i can when they are treated unfairly, in this case they are its bull$hit

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09-23-2003, 12:37 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
there is no prospect in hockey more overrated than garth murray.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
the guy gets zero respect on these boards and i will defend the coach and captain every post i can when they are treated unfairly
Tell me ONE thing Messier has done in the past 3 years that deserves my respect.

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:37 PM
  #56
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[QUOTE=E-Train][QUOTE=jar jar links]murray is NOT and ill repeat it for you brooklyn NOT ready to play at the nhl level.
QUOTE]

I didn't know you were appointed a NHL scout. How do you know this if you weren't at training camp or in Dallas or Minnesota? Just like everyone on the board wasn't there to see what type of penalty Messier took vs. Murray's

Our few young players may or may not be ready but for you to say he is NOT ready is way off one week into the preseason.

I can name some players that made it deep into last year's playoffs that would be considered NOT ready by your standards

Kurt Sauer- 22 years old

Nick Schultz- 20 years old

P-M Bouchard- 18 years old

wow real blue chip prospects you got there. hey did somebody bring up that sauer didnt sign with the rangers last offseason. what i disagree with you guys on this subject and ive been appointed the nhl scout! great awesome but your point is my point nobody saw the penalties so nobody can say it was wrong to bench these murray

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:38 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.




Tell me ONE thing Messier has done in the past 3 years that deserves my respect.
he played with ONE are after lindros went down with a concussion. i realize you may not remember. and you can laugh about murray being overrated but whats his projection. third line winger WOW thats a superstar there

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:45 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
he played with ONE are after lindros went down with a concussion.
Are you talking about the shoulder injury? Yah, a 1-armed 40 year old as our 1st line center. Boy, those were some great games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
and you can laugh about murray being overrated but whats his projection. third line winger WOW thats a superstar there
You know, not everyone who plays hockey is destined to be an NHL superstar. It takes all kinds of players to build a winning hockey team, including gritty 3rd line wingers. I don't think anyone is disappointed with Murray's progress.

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:48 PM
  #59
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not but it makes him an effective NHL player which is something that cant be said for many of the over the hill guys who have come through the pipe line over the years.


Being a third line player isnt a bad thing, you make it sound like its disappointing.

McCarty, Maltby,Marchant, etc. are all third line players and very good at it. Holik is a third line player and for the most part is considered a very good one.

Scoring 40 goals doesnt make a prospect more valuable then another. If that were the case Rob Brown would've been franchise player for the pens back in the 80's.

If Murray becomes a work your @$$ off 15 goal, 30 point player who stays with the team for 10 years then yes i am happy becuase it's one less trade or signing or hole we need to fill.

And those "non superstars" you laughed about have one thing that Messier, Lindros and Sather havent had the past several years. A taste of the playoffs so maybe they should be the ones laughing.

The rangers dont have a lot of supporting evidence that their method is working.

Now if we were talking about a team that had gotten better the past few years that becomes a bit easier to justify.

Messier and Sather dont need your defense, only people living in reality could possibly understand the comments being registered against them.

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:57 PM
  #60
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Scott

The kid wanted to avange the cheap shot that redwings defense man Fischer took with the Stals kid. When Fischer would not fight Scott went to get even. Anyone that is Ranger Fan better not have a problem with a kid fighting to keep honor in Rangerland

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Old
09-23-2003, 01:02 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Are you talking about the shoulder injury? Yah, a 1-armed 40 year old as our 1st line center. Boy, those were some great games.



You know, not everyone who plays hockey is destined to be an NHL superstar. It takes all kinds of players to build a winning hockey team, including gritty 3rd line wingers. I don't think anyone is disappointed with Murray's progress.
oh so playing with one arm show ho heart and you shouldnt respect it! cool. i understand murray is not destined to be a superstar but he is way overhyped. its like getting excited over the future barnaby. i like barnaby but it doesnt get me excited to think we have the second coming

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Old
09-23-2003, 01:06 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
wow real blue chip prospects you got there. hey did somebody bring up that sauer didnt sign with the rangers last offseason. what i disagree with you guys on this subject and ive been appointed the nhl scout! great awesome but your point is my point nobody saw the penalties so nobody can say it was wrong to bench these murray
genius, if no one can say it was wrong to bench Murray, than you can't say that Jurassic Mark deserves a pass for lazy penalties because he is entering his 75th year in the league.

and yes, Sauer did smartly pass on signing with the Rangers because he knew that with the Ducks he would get an opportunity. At 22, he played in 80 regular season games and all 21 playoff games for a Stanley Cup finalist.

I'm sure he made his share of rookie mistakes but was in the lineup every night. With NY he would have been on the Hartford-Charlotte shuttle buried behind the countless 30+ year old free agent signees.

But who are we to question the brilliant organizational philosphy of the Rangers for the past 6 seasons

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Old
09-23-2003, 01:15 PM
  #63
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I still dont see how murray is overrated. no one is predicting 40 goal, 80 point seasons for him. in fact being generous i gave him 20 goals and 40 points as a potential top end. more likely 15 goals and 35 points is reasonable.

Everyone knows he is a third line player, but he as a shot to be a VERY GOOD third line player.

There's a reason why Lapointe was sought after {though overpaid} and guys like Marchant, Holik,McCarty, Maltby are valuable to their teams. Because they do a bunch of little things and do them well. They arent spectacular players but they change a game and make a team that much better.

Murray has the potential and the character to be that type of player. He's not a top 6 forward in fact if he becomes a smaller mark bell i'll be pretty happy.

I don't only get excited about game breaking forwards i appreciate third line players and stay at home defenseman {lampman}.

Often times have players like that fills most of the holes you come up with as a team.

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09-23-2003, 01:20 PM
  #64
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sorry ive been a jerk today. its been such an awful day at work you guys took the brunt of it because i firmly believe im right on this point. i saw two hartford games in person last year and 2 on fox sports new england and msg and murray did nothing for me. edge i trust you judgement on talent but in this case i think your way off. true blue im sorry about all that business this morning. i guess we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

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Old
09-23-2003, 04:37 PM
  #65
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yes but the games you likely saw where with him having not one but two tears in his abdomen.

The player you saw last year is hardly the player murray can be. The fact he did what even did last year gives me even greater confidence of what he will someday become.

I'm not saying he is gonna be a star but to do what he did last year while being in THAT much pain is amazing. So far in camp and the preseason he looks good, though obviously rusty.

If he is back 10 100% this season i dont see 20 goals and 40 points at the ahl level being out of the question nor a battle for a roster spot next season.

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Old
09-23-2003, 07:38 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
yeah live in the past typical rangers fan living in the past. guess what its a new season fellas. we are arguing about a future 4th line left winger getting shafted. im saying murray wasnt playing well that night. nobody knows. maybe the call againts messier was a bad call. murray has shown nothing this camp. jeez i wonder why he isnt here anymore. there is no prospect in hockey more overrated than garth murray. Great hes tough so is ryan vandanbushe! at least with messier you know what you are getting, a 4th line center that if used right can be productive. the sad thing is if messier didnt play the rest of the game after his penalty people would say messier asked out because its a meaningless preseason game. the guy gets zero respect on these boards and i will defend the coach and captain every post i can when they are treated unfairly, in this case they are its bull$hit
Where did I complain about Murray getting "shafted" or moan and groan about him getting sent to Hartford? All I've said here is that there should ONE set of rules for EVERYONE in this damned organization.

Furthermore, where have I mouthed off about Messier? I happen to be one of his bigger supporters here. I just happen to believe that EVERYONE should be held accountable. I happen to think that Messier would say the same thing.

Don't lump me in with all the other "fellas" here. We all have different opinions and each of us has the right to have them. You think you're right, that's super, just remember that we're allowed to have differing opinions and are even allowed to post them.

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Old
09-24-2003, 05:14 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
where is the link? i checked the post and didnt see anything? murray has looked awful this preseason. AWFUL he doesnt deserve ice time with the big club right now. i dont think mark messier worries about preseason games. it was a 9-1 game. i hardly think he was the worst guy out there. it makes no sense to hold messier responsible for a penalty. true blue NEVER SAW THE WILD GAME! WHAT IF IT WAS A HORRIBLE CALL???
Sorry Jar Jar, not to keep rehashing this but you asked for the link. It was the Record, not the post. You can find the link on page two in the 'Murray demoted' thread but here is the comment I was talking about.

"He was kind of running around in that game (in Dallas). He was out of position," head coach Glen Sather said. "But he played much better in the game in Minnesota after he took the penalty and they sat him down for a couple of shifts. He sat there, calmed down and got his composure back a little bit."

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