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Defensemen who are/were products of their partners

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Old
01-15-2010, 10:15 AM
  #76
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diego View Post
Just wondering, how did Orpik look when Gonchar was out?
He played pretty well. He was definitely the best defenseman on the team during that stretch. I don't think Orpik will ever be "the guy" on a pairing mostly due to a lack of offensive ability, but he is an excellent 1st pairing partner. The odd part is that now that Orpik is out, Gonchar has decided he is going to start dishing out some hits.

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Old
01-15-2010, 11:54 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
This is a common misconception, especially amongst Detroit/Sweden/Zetterberg fans.

Jackman was definitely helped by playing with MacInnis, but his individual performance was GREAT that year. He didn't continue to grow because of serious shoulder injuries.

Jackman is now back to being a well above average shutdown d-man with some two-way to his game. He isn't what he could have been: more physical, an outstanding fighter, and a better shot. But his play that year got him the Calder more than is the popular belief.
I'm not a Detroit/Sweden/Zetterberg fan. I am, however, a MacInnis fan.

Pair Jackman with a different guy and he's nowhere near as effective. Defensively, MacInnis rarely made mistakes and was rock solid. He bailed out Jackman when he would get out of position to be physical. In the offensive zone, the opposition would have to focus on MacInnis because of his shot, giving Jackman way more time and space.

Pair Jackman with someone less consistent, less effective on both ends of the ice, and he wouldn't have had nearly the season he did. This is not to say that Jackman is bad. He isn't.

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Old
01-15-2010, 12:08 PM
  #78
TonyTinglebone
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Originally Posted by Sniper Archetype View Post
Whoever plays with Markov it has seemed.
Haha, it's kinda funny how defenseman from Montreal keep getting that big pay day when they leave. Souray, Streit, Komisarek and now there isn't really anyone to fit that mould unless someone wants to pay Bergeron next year.

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Old
01-15-2010, 12:51 PM
  #79
Que Sera Sera
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MAB-Pronger.
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Old
01-15-2010, 02:23 PM
  #80
rumrokh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandlak View Post
I'm not a Detroit/Sweden/Zetterberg fan. I am, however, a MacInnis fan.

Pair Jackman with a different guy and he's nowhere near as effective. Defensively, MacInnis rarely made mistakes and was rock solid. He bailed out Jackman when he would get out of position to be physical. In the offensive zone, the opposition would have to focus on MacInnis because of his shot, giving Jackman way more time and space.

Pair Jackman with someone less consistent, less effective on both ends of the ice, and he wouldn't have had nearly the season he did. This is not to say that Jackman is bad. He isn't.
I agree that MacInnis helped, but just like everyone else on the ice helps. Jackman stepped in while Pronger was out and the team didn't miss a beat defensively. That's more than just MacInnis.

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Old
01-15-2010, 02:27 PM
  #81
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not sure if its been mentioned but although im not sure this is true you could maybe make a case for johnny oduya when paired with paul martin

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Old
01-15-2010, 02:32 PM
  #82
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I agree that MacInnis helped, but just like everyone else on the ice helps. Jackman stepped in while Pronger was out and the team didn't miss a beat defensively. That's more than just MacInnis.
That's the easy way out of having to think about it at all, and the sure way to avoid having to defend an actual opinion. But in reality, some teams line up their defenses either top heavy (Pronger and Niedermayer as a first pairing, for example), or spread it out (Markov with Gorges on the first, while the REAL #2 guy, Hamrlik, plays with someone like O'Byrne). Teams who take the second approach do it for a variety of reasons, not the least of the valid ones being that the "anchor" of that line is able to clean up after any mistakes that are usually considered "acceptable" as long as, overall, the strength of the second pairing's play "profits" enough to merit going with this strategy.

Just because that second guy (in this case, Backman) proved a good enough compliment to the main guy (MacInnis) that overall they were effective, doesn't mean the main guy doesn't deserve the bulk of the credit. And in this case, I think he (MacInnis) deserves just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dzanimal16 View Post
not sure if its been mentioned but although im not sure this is true you could maybe make a case for johnny oduya when paired with paul martin
First time I've seen it mentioned, and I would say it is valid enough.

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Old
01-15-2010, 02:40 PM
  #83
RAZZIE King
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Blake when paired with Robinson... (Not in how to be a world class pain in the butt though...)

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Old
01-15-2010, 02:41 PM
  #84
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Rafalski with Stevens and Rafalski with Lidstrom. Won 3 Cups with those two as his partner.....coincidence? I think not.

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Old
01-15-2010, 03:04 PM
  #85
Greg NYR
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brian leetch-jeff beukeboom

not even sure beukeboom would have been a full time nhler for as long without leetch

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Old
01-15-2010, 03:14 PM
  #86
Hero
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Komi and Beauch aren't that terrible. They were over rated but due to other reasons as well.

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Old
01-15-2010, 03:26 PM
  #87
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I agree that Seabrook may have not made it...if he wasn't paired with Keith, BUT disagree strongly if you think Seabrook is just the product of him. He IS an ELITE defensemen with or without him

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Old
01-15-2010, 03:31 PM
  #88
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MA Bergeron is the first name to come to my mind... he was just playing at a different level next to Pronger, which he never played close to before or since.

In Vancouver it was whoever was playing to Ohlund - when he was in his prime.

Sopel had a great season next to him... after Sopel left, we got the same performance from Baumgartner... both guys looked so much better next to Ohlund.

I don't think that Seabrook qualifies for this thread though... he's still an elite dman on his own, and not a product of his partner.

Bergeron, Sopel and Baumgartner were all products of their partners.

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Old
01-15-2010, 05:15 PM
  #89
schmittkov
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Rozsival

Not really his partner, but I think Michal Rozsival should give about $4 million of his $5 million annual contract to Jagr. I guess playing in the five man unit with Jagr and Straka really inflated his ability, because I don't even know if he should be classified as average.

Except I hear that the Dallas Stars are interested and are willing to pay big for him...

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Old
01-15-2010, 05:25 PM
  #90
Av-merican
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Rob Blake - Martin Skoula. A VERY effective pairing at the time...unfortunately it didn't last terribly long.

Blake was playing Norris-caliber hockey the season this pairing was put together up until the All-Star game in Minnesota when he suffered a freak injury, and while Avs fans tend to exaggerate Skoula's deficiencies, he definitely did (and still does) have a very flawed game. The thing I noticed most is that Skoula focused more on defense and didn't try to make plays, which is where he usually got himself into trouble. People always say it was simply a matter of Blake covering up Skoula's mistakes, but I think Blake allowed Skoula to play a more simplified game and that was the difference. Of course following the injury Blake never came back quite the same and Skoula went back to his usual brand of awful.

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