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Pens scouting Ponikarovsky

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Old
01-16-2010, 12:10 AM
  #51
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We need to be reasonable... With close to 35 million tied up between Malkin, Crosby, Fleury, Gonch and Staal we arent going to ever get an elite winger.. The 3 centers are going to have to make due with cheap wingers for the time being. We cant have a 6 million dollar winger and the rest of the team at 800K.

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01-16-2010, 12:13 AM
  #52
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Meh. I'd rather get Tkachuk. He's my favorite non-Pens player of all time and the STL Blues are my favorite Western Conference team (excluding Winnipeg).

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01-16-2010, 12:19 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
You guys act like right-handed, top-6 wingers are some sort of holy grail thats unattainable.

News flash: practically every team out there has one except the Pens.

A guy like Dustin Brown / Setoguchi / Boyes would be clutch, but I could settle for less. The Penguins have a decent amount of valuable assets, so acquiring one of these guys isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Yeah and there is a reason they have them too and they wouldn't come for cheap.

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01-16-2010, 01:47 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Fraction Jackson View Post
Ponikarovsky isn't an ideal option, but he's certainly a solid option. He's not a liability in any facet of his game, he can put up some points and play some solid defense. Most likely he'd be a good fit with Malkin, since they're similar speed-wise and I think Geno really needs a little help.

If a 2nd gets it done, then I think it's a no-brainer.


Shero will probably try to top up the roster for the playoffs as always. Last season most were entirely underwhelmed by the prospect of getting Guerin, but it worked pretty well.
Poni is a solid improvement, and if that's as good as it can be without bleeding something significant.... fine with me.

Not the only option, but one of the more plausible ones. Agree on the price as well. Might have to add something marginal - like when Rags got Antropov last season. I think Antropov is better though, but if nothing else he has shown this season that just because you used to be a Leaf you don't have to suck.

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01-16-2010, 02:03 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by PKV Jungle Friends View Post
I would sell my kidneys to get Boyes on this team.

What do you think it might realistically take to get him?
I suggested Kunitz, Jeffrey, and a 1st for him on the Blues board, and the reception was about half and half.

I think the value's good, and it addresses some of the Blues' current dearth of gritty experience while giving them more assets for the future.

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01-16-2010, 08:45 AM
  #56
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There is no one (who isn't untouchable) on that Leafs team who is consistent enough to be a trade IMO. Poni, Hagman, et al. They're all streaky and unreliable. That's why the Leafs are where they are. They had a bunch of Antropovs, Ponis, etc who could play consistently enough to make that team competitive, let alone playoff worthy. No doubt Burke will change that and has already started to with guys like Kessel (and prospects like Kadri). But generally.. not many people on that team I'd care to bring over other than some of the high quality young talent (which as noted aren't likely to be traded).

(re: above - I wouldn't trade Kunitz as part of a Boyes deal... that would have to be early picks and prospects or something else, because Boyes isn't reliable either and is poor defensively. Losing Kunitz and adding Boyes would make our GA shoot up IMO, even if our Goals For shot up too).

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01-16-2010, 09:08 AM
  #57
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Maybe it's just me, but Kunitz, Jeffrey and a 1st for Brad Boyes looks like MASSIVE overpayment and a total panic move.

On Ponikarovsky, he's a good complementary player. However, I wouldn't expect him to suddenly start lighting the lamp consistently even if playing with Malkin. He runs hot and cold, and doesn't strike me as the type of player who would thrive when the goal-scoring spotlight would start to shine brightly upon him.

Lastly, I know our record when selecting in the second round is poor, but that's an awful reason to include a 2010 second rounder in every single trade proposal out there. I'd rather keep that pick this year and begin the process of reversing our second-round curse.

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01-16-2010, 01:12 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Maybe it's just me, but Kunitz, Jeffrey and a 1st for Brad Boyes looks like MASSIVE overpayment and a total panic move.

On Ponikarovsky, he's a good complementary player. However, I wouldn't expect him to suddenly start lighting the lamp consistently even if playing with Malkin. He runs hot and cold, and doesn't strike me as the type of player who would thrive when the goal-scoring spotlight would start to shine brightly upon him.

Lastly, I know our record when selecting in the second round is poor, but that's an awful reason to include a 2010 second rounder in every single trade proposal out there. I'd rather keep that pick this year and begin the process of reversing our second-round curse.
I think it all depends on how you view his situation in St.Louis, and how you think he would play with one of our centers.

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01-16-2010, 05:17 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by petrskudra1 View Post
Poni is a decent player, hope we don't go for him though, unless he would come cheap which I doubt. The cap hit would be manageable as hes just over $1.5 mil, and that number gets cut significantly at the deadline. It may just be me but nothing really interests me when it comes to the Leafs and trading for their players. On a positive note he is Ukrainian
Considering how Feds has been playing, I see very little positive about that

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01-16-2010, 05:18 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Maybe it's just me, but Kunitz, Jeffrey and a 1st for Brad Boyes looks like MASSIVE overpayment and a total panic move.

On Ponikarovsky, he's a good complementary player. However, I wouldn't expect him to suddenly start lighting the lamp consistently even if playing with Malkin. He runs hot and cold, and doesn't strike me as the type of player who would thrive when the goal-scoring spotlight would start to shine brightly upon him.

Lastly, I know our record when selecting in the second round is poor, but that's an awful reason to include a 2010 second rounder in every single trade proposal out there. I'd rather keep that pick this year and begin the process of reversing our second-round curse.
I concurr.

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01-16-2010, 05:18 PM
  #61
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No idea why anybody would want to trade Kunitz... he's more productive and a heck of a lot more physical than Boyes.

Kunitz has been nothing but solid, and I don't see how you can upgrade the wing position by trading him.

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01-16-2010, 05:21 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
No idea why anybody would want to trade Kunitz... he's more productive and a heck of a lot more physical than Boyes.

Kunitz has been nothing but solid, and I don't see how you can upgrade the wing position by trading him.
By doing a trade like the one that brought him here.

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01-16-2010, 05:23 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
No idea why anybody would want to trade Kunitz... he's more productive and a heck of a lot more physical than Boyes.

Kunitz has been nothing but solid, and I don't see how you can upgrade the wing position by trading him.
Because he's forced to be "the man" in St.Louis, who don't have anything close to an elite center, and he's not a puck possession guy - he's a sniper.

He's 27 years old, and before this year, he's had totals of 43 and 33 goals, which are goal numbers we haven't seen in about a decade from a winger. He's also an RH shot that would give our PP a completely different dynamic.

I really like Kunitz, but if we could land a Boyes and some additional grit from elsewhere at the deadline, we'd be a lot more balanced in terms of scoring.

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01-16-2010, 05:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Because he's forced to be "the man" in St.Louis, who don't have anything close to an elite center, and he's not a puck possession guy - he's a sniper.

He's 27 years old, and before this year, he's had totals of 43 and 33 goals, which are goal numbers we haven't seen in about a decade from a winger. He's also an RH shot that would give our PP a completely different dynamic.

I really like Kunitz, but if we could land a Boyes and some additional grit from elsewhere at the deadline, we'd be a lot more balanced in terms of scoring.
You might have a case with Kunitz for Boyes, but St. Louis wouldn't do that.. and trading Kunitz and a first isn't really a good plan.. Pens need those picks, the farm system isn't exactly filled with talent.

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01-16-2010, 06:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
You might have a case with Kunitz for Boyes, but St. Louis wouldn't do that.. and trading Kunitz and a first isn't really a good plan.. Pens need those picks, the farm system isn't exactly filled with talent.
But if you're giving up picks, giving them up for a guy like Brad Boyes is the way to go. It's not like he would be a rental. We can only hope that a guy we draft in the 1st round turns out to be a Brad Boyes.

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01-16-2010, 06:32 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
But if you're giving up picks, giving them up for a guy like Brad Boyes is the way to go. It's not like he would be a rental. We can only hope that a guy we draft in the 1st round turns out to be a Brad Boyes.
but you're giving up Kunitz on top of it... I just don't think it would be a good idea.

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01-16-2010, 07:08 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
You might have a case with Kunitz for Boyes, but St. Louis wouldn't do that.. and trading Kunitz and a first isn't really a good plan.. Pens need those picks, the farm system isn't exactly filled with talent.
Which is why we'd be getting Boyes. Kunitz would be a tough asset to part with because he's so versatile, but there's always the possibility that we could land a guy like Ott in FA who could do some of the same things for less money.

I understand your hesitation, but we simply won't ever find a legitimate goal-scoring winger unless we make a move like this for a player like Boyes while his value's down.

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01-16-2010, 07:22 PM
  #68
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If you're going to give up a guy like Kunitz then you'd better be getting a *consistent* legitimate scoring winger. Not one who has been streaky his whole career (and I repeat, cannot play a two-way game to save his life).

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01-16-2010, 07:32 PM
  #69
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If you're going to give up a guy like Kunitz then you'd better be getting a *consistent* legitimate scoring winger. Not one who has been streaky his whole career (and I repeat, cannot play a two-way game to save his life).
Most goal-scorers are streaky by nature, but Boyes scored consistently enough to pot 30+ and 40+ in the last two years, which is more than we've seen from a winger in a long time.

A winger that scores goals consistently and plays a two-way game is not going to be available to us for anything less than a core player.

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01-16-2010, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Most goal-scorers are streaky by nature, but Boyes scored consistently enough to pot 30+ and 40+ in the last two years, which is more than we've seen from a winger in a long time.

A winger that scores goals consistently and plays a two-way game is not going to be available to us for anything less than a core player.
good post. Its about time we get a long-term 30-40 goal guy on the wing. (Casey Pierro-Zabotel is still a few years away)

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01-16-2010, 08:00 PM
  #71
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I think it would have to be Staal, seems like the Blues have too many dmen for Goligoski or Letang to be an option.
Hmm...you may be right on that one.

I wouldn't do the deal for Staal and just get Boyes back. They would have to give something else for this to work.

Not necessarily because it's unfair as Boyes-Staal straight-up, but simply because we value Staal that much and it would take something overwhelming to pry him away from Shero's sweaty hands...

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01-16-2010, 08:03 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I suggested Kunitz, Jeffrey, and a 1st for him on the Blues board, and the reception was about half and half.

I think the value's good, and it addresses some of the Blues' current dearth of gritty experience while giving them more assets for the future.
This seems totally reasonable to me, but than again I'm a big fan of Boyes.

They will certainly be a nice trade partner for a couple different potential future Pens (Tkachuk, Kariya, etc.) if they keep playing like they have been the past two months.

They'll be selling the old studs on the farm and bring in yet a few more up and coming young stallions. That team is actually loaded with great young talent and I'm shocked that they aren't playing better this season.

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01-16-2010, 08:03 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by PKV Jungle Friends View Post
Hmm...you may be right on that one.

I wouldn't do the deal for Staal and just get Boyes back. They would have to give something else for this to work.

Not necessarily because it's unfair as Boyes-Staal straight-up, but simply because we value Staal that much and it would take something overwhelming to pry him away from Shero's sweaty hands...
I REALLY liked Ian Cole in his draft year...

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01-16-2010, 08:05 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by PKV Jungle Friends View Post
Hmm...you may be right on that one.

I wouldn't do the deal for Staal and just get Boyes back. They would have to give something else for this to work.

Not necessarily because it's unfair as Boyes-Staal straight-up, but simply because we value Staal that much and it would take something overwhelming to pry him away from Shero's sweaty hands...
It would be though. Staal's already a better player and still has tons of upside. Boyes is very good at what he does when placed in the right situation, but he is what he is.

I'd be keeping Staal. The last couple months should be enough to convince anyone of that, I think.

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01-16-2010, 08:07 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
It would be though. Staal's already a better player and still has tons of upside. Boyes is very good at what he does when placed in the right situation, but he is what he is.

I'd be keeping Staal. The last couple months should be enough to convince anyone of that, I think.
Yeah, I wouldn't do a straight up, but if I could get a Boyes, Cole, + package...I would have to think long and hard about that one.

If would fill two needs...winger and physical defenseman outside of Orpik.

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