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Is this the most lopsided trade ever?

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Old
01-16-2010, 03:20 PM
  #51
Big Phil
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50 posts and no one mentioned Phil Esposito?

To Boston: Esposito, Ken Hodge and Fred Stanfield
To Chicago: Pit Martin, Gilles Marotte and Jack Norris

Say what you want but Norris never played a game in the NHL, Marotte can best be described as a serviceable defenseman and Martin was a 70 point guy, not bad.

But on the other end Hodge had two 100 point seasons, Stanfield was a steady 70 point man and Esposito won 5 Art Ross Trophies, two MVPs, and two Cups (which both the others won too).

That alone can arguably be the worst trade of all time based on the results. You would probably easily take Hodge and Stanfield alone vs. Martin and Marotte and considering Norris never played in the NHL essentially the Hawks spoon fed a top 15-20 player of all time to Boston for free!

That would rank up as lopsided as any trade in the history of the game and the Hawks wonder why 1961 is their last Cup.

Ironically Hodge, when at the end of his career was traded for a then young Rick Middleton straight up. Hodge played one more NHL season in New York while Middleton had a borderline HHOF career in Boston. But that isn't as lopsided as the Esposito 1967 trade or even others on this list

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01-16-2010, 03:34 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Ironically Hodge, when at the end of his career was traded for a then young Rick Middleton straight up. Hodge played one more NHL season in New York while Middleton had a borderline HHOF career in Boston. But that isn't as lopsided as the Esposito 1967 trade or even others on this list
And in addition Espo and Vadnais were traded for Park and Ratelle. Another win for the Bruins. IMO from that point on:

Park >>>>> Vadnais
Ratelle > Espo

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Old
01-16-2010, 03:38 PM
  #53
Mike Farkas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakovsky View Post
To Pittsburgh: Alek Stojanov
To Vancouver: Markus Naslund

That was pretty lopsided.
In retrospect, sure...but this was a potential for potential+now trade...Naslund was doing relatively little for Pittsburgh with a stacked top six...and it was the last year of his contract (he was going to be restricted and therefore paid more, a lot more)...the Pens needed toughness and Stojanov was recently like a 7th overall pick (IIRC)...so they made the swap...

Pretty much no matter what, Naslund wasn't part of the Pens future plans...they hoped Stojanov was a late-blooming power forward...the Canucks even let Naslund sit a bit as an RFA before they finally signed him - not that I read a ton into his value from that...but maybe the Canucks weren't immediately sold on him either (there was once talk amongst Penguins fans that Naslund wasn't even given an qualifying offer, but I found a newspaper article a while ago that debunked that)

I believe Stojanov's career was short circuited by a car accident too...which didn't help matters...

I guess there's mildly-elaborate justifications for a lot of trades, but at the time, this wasn't an awful idea for Pittsburgh...when it's said and done, it's a horrific trade for the Pens, as we all well know...

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01-16-2010, 03:50 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Luongo & Jokinen for Kvasha & Parrish.

Made worse by the fact that the trade was made so that New York could draft Dipietro instead of Heatley or Gaborik.
Well, what many people fail to bring up after this trade occurred is that the Isles made the playoffs 3 times with the players they got and Florida made the playoffs ZERO times with Luongo and Jokinen. The Panthers may have got better players in the trade, but it didn't make them any better. Also the jury is still out on Luongo, even with a better team (vancouver canucks)in front of him, he still hasn't made it past the 2nd round and he really isn't a playoff goalie. Just look at what he did against the Hawks in game 6 in the Canucks and Hawks playoff series last year. Also my friend who is also a Canucks fan tells me that Luongo is good for at least 1 soft goal a game. Maybe Mad Mike wasn't so mad after all. We will find out about the impact of this trade in another 10 years. If Luongo wins the Stanley Cup with the Canucks, the Isles lost this deal. But if the Isles win the Cup and Luongo does not, then the Isles win because they would be showing that they became a better TEAM without Luongo.

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Old
01-16-2010, 05:52 PM
  #55
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To Montreal: Russ Courtnall
To Toronto: John Kordic

Courtnall was a decent, 2nd line winger who scored a memorable OT goal in game 7 against Hartford in 1992 (1991?) before being traded for Brian Bellows, who a was a key player on the 1993 Stanley Cup team. Meanwhile, John Kordic bounced around the NHL and AHL for a few years before dying of a drug overdose in 1992. Even if he didn't, it was a great trade for Montreal and a terrible deal for Toronto.

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Old
01-16-2010, 05:56 PM
  #56
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Well, what many people fail to bring up after this trade occurred is that the Isles made the playoffs 3 times with the players they got and Florida made the playoffs ZERO times with Luongo and Jokinen. The Panthers may have got better players in the trade, but it didn't make them any better. Also the jury is still out on Luongo, even with a better team (vancouver canucks)in front of him, he still hasn't made it past the 2nd round and he really isn't a playoff goalie. Just look at what he did against the Hawks in game 6 in the Canucks and Hawks playoff series last year. Also my friend who is also a Canucks fan tells me that Luongo is good for at least 1 soft goal a game. Maybe Mad Mike wasn't so mad after all. We will find out about the impact of this trade in another 10 years. If Luongo wins the Stanley Cup with the Canucks, the Isles lost this deal. But if the Isles win the Cup and Luongo does not, then the Isles win because they would be showing that they became a better TEAM without Luongo.
No, it doesn't work that way. The Islanders had rebuilt with high picks for years because their teams were so bad, and only made the playoffs later because they jetissonned all their rebuilding pieces for a bunch of veterans (Yashin, Peca, Osgood). The Panthers weren't a good team in that period of time because they drafted poorly (some of their high picks from around that time: Marcus Nilsson, Mike Brown, Kyle Rossiter, Denis Shvidki, Vladimir Sapozhnikov), and didn't bother to bring in much veteran talent to plug the holes in their roster. If you actually think that Parrish (a one-dimensional scorer who has similar per-season numbers to Sergei Berezin) and Kvasha (useless gentle giant, and run out of the NHL by age 27) brought more to the table than Luongo and Jokinen, well, I can't help you.

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Old
01-16-2010, 07:35 PM
  #57
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Yeah, those magic beans certainly paid off in the 1990 Cup win.
Well Martin Gelinas was the only player who came from that deal to Edmonton that was on that cup winning team and he played a minor role. Craig Simpson from the Coffey deal a year before was a huge part on the other hand.

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Old
01-16-2010, 11:15 PM
  #58
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Milbury deserves his own thread.

1982: Canadiens trade Rod Langway, Brian Engblom, Doug Jarvis and Craig Laughlin to the Capitals for Rick Green and Ryan Walter. Caps become a playoff team, Langway goes on to win two Norris trophies, Montreal waits for Patrick Roy to come out of puberty.

1988: Flames trade Brett Hull and Steve Bozek to the St. Louis Blues for Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley. The next three seasons in St. Louis, Hull scores 41, 72 and 86 goals. Terry Crisp's player assessment skills foreshadows Mike Keenan's ability to assess goaltenders.

1989: Red Wings trade a young Adam Oates and Paul Maclean to St. Louis for Bernie Federko and Tony McKegney. The Wings may have found a Cup five years earlier than 1997 without this trade.

1992: Blackhawks trade backup goalie Dominik Hasek to Buffalo for another backup goalie, Stephane Beauregard. Keenan chooses Belfour over Hasek as his #1 due to Eddies' triathlon calibre fitness levels. No one bothered to ask the Chicago players which goalie they couldn't score on in practice. Years later as GM in Florida, Keenan doubles down and swaps Luongo for Bertuzzi.

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01-17-2010, 02:09 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by mobilus View Post
Milbury deserves his own thread.

1982: Canadiens trade Rod Langway, Brian Engblom, Doug Jarvis and Craig Laughlin to the Capitals for Rick Green and Ryan Walter. Caps become a playoff team, Langway goes on to win two Norris trophies, Montreal waits for Patrick Roy to come out of puberty.

1988: Flames trade Brett Hull and Steve Bozek to the St. Louis Blues for Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley. The next three seasons in St. Louis, Hull scores 41, 72 and 86 goals. Terry Crisp's player assessment skills foreshadows Mike Keenan's ability to assess goaltenders.

1989: Red Wings trade a young Adam Oates and Paul Maclean to St. Louis for Bernie Federko and Tony McKegney. The Wings may have found a Cup five years earlier than 1997 without this trade.

1992: Blackhawks trade backup goalie Dominik Hasek to Buffalo for another backup goalie, Stephane Beauregard. Keenan chooses Belfour over Hasek as his #1 due to Eddies' triathlon calibre fitness levels. No one bothered to ask the Chicago players which goalie they couldn't score on in practice. Years later as GM in Florida, Keenan doubles down and swaps Luongo for Bertuzzi.
Huh, for some reason I was under the impression that the Brett Hull trade involved Doug Gilmour.

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Old
01-17-2010, 04:48 AM
  #60
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These were the first that came to mind for me:
  • Vancouver gets: Barry Pederson. Boston gets: Cam Neely and Glen Wesley.
  • Calgary gets: Gary Leeman, Alexander Godynyuk, Jeff Reese, Michel Petit, Craig Berube. Toronto gets: Doug Gilmour, Jamie Macoun, Ric Nattress, Kent Manderville, Rick Wamsley.
  • Calgary gets: Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley. St. Louis gets: Brett Hull and Steve Bozek.

Here's a French article that has a lot of good picks like the Yashin for Chara, Spezza, and Bill Muckalt along with some older ones:

http://legrandclub.rds.ca/profils/107668/posts/37738

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01-17-2010, 08:37 AM
  #61
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Worst One on One:

Boston trading Rock solid Anchor Allan Stanley to Toronto for offensive minded Defenseman Jim Morrison {Before he joined The Doors}

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01-17-2010, 08:47 AM
  #62
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Boston=Chicago:

The Boston/Chicago Esposito deal was pretty awful as a multi player trade {For the Hawks}

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Old
01-17-2010, 10:46 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by cupcrazyman View Post
Cliff Fletcher ripping off the Flames but that just me.
what are you referring to? the Doug Gilmour/Gary Leeman deal? not sure if Cliff was with the Leafs at that time?

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Old
01-17-2010, 10:47 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Hippasus View Post
Calgary gets: Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley. St. Louis gets: Brett Hull and Steve Bozek.[/LIST]
Calgary won their only cup right after this deal so it cant be all bad for them

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Old
01-17-2010, 11:46 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
Calgary won their only cup right after this deal so it cant be all bad for them
True, but Vernon played goal for the Cup run and Ramage was nothing more than reliable. Ramage was gone within a year and a half to the Leafs, with Gilmour and Wamsley following to Toronto another year after that. Although Wamsley and Ramage were there for the Cup in '89, I don't believe either were the crucial element that put the Flames on top. If Calgary had kept that 1988 core together, they would have had Gilmour, Hull, Fluery, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, MacInnis and Vernon all in their primes at the same time. Peter Zezel centered Hull for his 72 goal season in St. Louis. I would imagine Doug Gilmour could have done just as good with Hull in Calgary. As Edmonton was a power throughout the '80s, Calgary could have been for the '90s.

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Old
01-17-2010, 01:19 PM
  #66
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In retrospect, sure...
Of course it was in retrospect. All deals are pretty much even right when they're made. It's retrospect that makes them lopsided. That shouldn't need to be said.

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Old
01-17-2010, 01:53 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
In retrospect, sure...but this was a potential for potential+now trade...Naslund was doing relatively little for Pittsburgh with a stacked top six...and it was the last year of his contract (he was going to be restricted and therefore paid more, a lot more)...the Pens needed toughness and Stojanov was recently like a 7th overall pick (IIRC)...so they made the swap...

Pretty much no matter what, Naslund wasn't part of the Pens future plans...they hoped Stojanov was a late-blooming power forward...the Canucks even let Naslund sit a bit as an RFA before they finally signed him - not that I read a ton into his value from that...but maybe the Canucks weren't immediately sold on him either (there was once talk amongst Penguins fans that Naslund wasn't even given an qualifying offer, but I found a newspaper article a while ago that debunked that)

I believe Stojanov's career was short circuited by a car accident too...which didn't help matters...

I guess there's mildly-elaborate justifications for a lot of trades, but at the time, this wasn't an awful idea for Pittsburgh...when it's said and done, it's a horrific trade for the Pens, as we all well know...
I remember thinking at the time how absolutely awful the trade was.

I think some people, thanks to Stojanov's high draft selection, thought he could still develop NHL-caliber offense. I didn't see it happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfunk View Post
To Montreal: Russ Courtnall
To Toronto: John Kordic

Courtnall was a decent, 2nd line winger who scored a memorable OT goal in game 7 against Hartford in 1992 (1991?) before being traded for Brian Bellows, who a was a key player on the 1993 Stanley Cup team. Meanwhile, John Kordic bounced around the NHL and AHL for a few years before dying of a drug overdose in 1992. Even if he didn't, it was a great trade for Montreal and a terrible deal for Toronto.
That's a big one.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
No, it doesn't work that way. The Islanders had rebuilt with high picks for years because their teams were so bad, and only made the playoffs later because they jetissonned all their rebuilding pieces for a bunch of veterans (Yashin, Peca, Osgood). The Panthers weren't a good team in that period of time because they drafted poorly (some of their high picks from around that time: Marcus Nilsson, Mike Brown, Kyle Rossiter, Denis Shvidki, Vladimir Sapozhnikov), and didn't bother to bring in much veteran talent to plug the holes in their roster. If you actually think that Parrish (a one-dimensional scorer who has similar per-season numbers to Sergei Berezin) and Kvasha (useless gentle giant, and run out of the NHL by age 27) brought more to the table than Luongo and Jokinen, well, I can't help you.
Forget Luongo; those two didn't bring more to the table than Jokinen alone.

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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Huh, for some reason I was under the impression that the Brett Hull trade involved Doug Gilmour.
Nope, if it did, considering the other players involved, it would not be considered one of the biggest ripoffs of all-time, it would be more even.

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Old
01-17-2010, 02:00 PM
  #68
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Did the Hull trade involve cash or something? I can't think of any way that a GM would just give away the purest goalscorer the nhls ever seen and not know what he had.

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01-17-2010, 08:05 PM
  #69
Mike Farkas
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Of course it was in retrospect. All deals are pretty much even right when they're made. It's retrospect that makes them lopsided. That shouldn't need to be said.
I get ya and you're right generally speaking, but at what point did Thornton for Sturm, Stuart and Primeau seem like a good idea? There's a handful of trades that are awful right from the get-go...

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01-17-2010, 09:13 PM
  #70
Big Phil
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what are you referring to? the Doug Gilmour/Gary Leeman deal? not sure if Cliff was with the Leafs at that time?
Fletcher joined the Leafs in 1991. The Gilmour trade happened in early 1992

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Old
01-17-2010, 09:44 PM
  #71
GWOW
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To Philadelphia Flyers: Eric Lindros

To Quebec Nordiques: Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, a 1st round selection (Jocelyn Thibault) in 1993, a 1st round selection (later traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs, later traded to the Washington Capitals - Nolan Baumgartner) and $15,000,000 cash.


Not at all. Look at how bad Philly was before Lindros got there.
H2H, only Forsberg is comprable to Lindros.

Hextall cost them the 1993 ADSF and was on the Isles the next season

Duchense was very good but traded for Garth Butcher after one season in QC

Ricci was a very good role player but Philly had Rod Brindamour who was better

Simon was a 3rd liner at best


Huffman, Thibeualt and Baumgartner never really amounted to anything special for Colorado


Lindros was one of the most dominant players in the NHL, as was Forsberg. Both players had a great impact on their new organizations.


You wanna see lopsided?:

Mark Messier for Bernie Nicholls, Louie Debrusk and Steven Rice, or Yashin for Spezza and Chara come to mind.

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Old
01-17-2010, 09:51 PM
  #72
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Well it almost did and was almost done, but then the Rangers and Flyers came in with better offers.
I think the Rangers offer was better than Philly's overall:

Weight, Kovalev, Amonte, Vanbiesbrouck, Patrick and 3 1st round picks in 1993, 1994 and 1995.

Nobody in that deal comes close to Forsberg, but could you imagine Quebec with this top-9 in 1993?

Kamensky-Sakic-Nolan
Kovalev-Sundin-Amonte
Rucinsky-Weight-Kovalenko/Young

Wow.

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Old
01-17-2010, 10:07 PM
  #73
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Huffman, Thibeualt and Baumgartner never really amounted to anything special for Colorado
Thibault was Key to getting Roy from Montreal, though.

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01-17-2010, 10:15 PM
  #74
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Thibault was Key to getting Roy from Montreal, though.
True. But then again, I think Roy was getting traded to Colorado no matter what. If it wasnt Thibeault it would have been Fiset or Denis.

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01-17-2010, 10:51 PM
  #75
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unusual circumstances, but in '57...

Ted Lindsay, age 31, had just led the NHL in assists, finished 2nd in scoring, and had his career high in points. he was named 1st AS for the 8th time. his line with Ullman and Howe had just set a new record for points by a line in a season.

Glenn Hall, age 25, was in the middle of a streak of 502 consecutive starts. he had just been voted 1st AS and had been 2nd AS in his rookie season ('56) and won the calder.

DRW finished 1st in the regular season.



Jack Adams traded Hall and Lindsay to Chicago for:


Johnny Wilson, age 28, a good 2nd liner. Wilson was traded 2 years later for Barry Cullen, who played only 55 more games.

Forbes Kennedy, age 22, a checking C who played 168 games for DRW before being traded for Andre Pronovost.

Hank Bassen, age 24, a backup goalie.



after the trade, DRW were not above .500 for 5 seasons.


since Hall was gone and Bassen was not good enough to be a starter, DRW needed a goalie.

they traded some cash and 22 year old Johnny Bucyk for Terry Sawchuk.

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