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Bad Loss Habs lose 4-2 against Senators

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Old
01-17-2010, 12:35 AM
  #276
scottyG
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Sens outplayed the Habs, plain and simple. I don't get why people need to find a scapegoat after every loss... Why not just accepting that the entire team sucked? Sure, maybe Price should of had the first goal, but was he the sole reason for the loss? I really don't think so... I mean, the team did have 6 power play opportunities, and failed to score on any of them.

I just can't stand blaming goalies for losses (unless they really crap the bed and stop absolutely nothing)... maybe it's because I was a goalie back when I played soccer and hockey and I sort of see things a little differently when it comes to them.
Being a goalie myself i always feel im watching another game then most people because to some people every goal is the goalies fault but to me i look at the play then make my decision whether it was a **** goal or just a good goal. Most of the time the goals both are goalies let in are just good goals. Take for example ottawa's first goal, over hear people are blaming Price but if that had been Cammy or gionta or even paccioretty scoring that goal against the other team people would be praising them on how good a shot it was.

Remeber this goal? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN8sjGBbheM Had Price let that in people would be like OMG he has such a bad glove hand or he's to deep in his net but since it was against another team people are saying it was such a nice goal,etc.

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01-17-2010, 12:39 AM
  #277
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Read my previous post. Lions in the Winter has a great analysis of our team's overall abilities.

Bottom line: Too much dead-weight on this team! The defenceman are old and slow, don't know how to stand up at the blue-line and turn the puck over a lot. The top 6 is decent but it's obvious Cammy and Plekanec need a big, skilled body on their line because they both have trouble along the boards. And the bottom 6 seem to be useless these days...Laraque should be in the AHL, same with Bergeron.

I hope Gainey traded some of the veteran D and demotes some of the bottom 6 players and brings up the young kids to replace them. They can't be any worse. They need a wake up-call.

It seems like only Plekanec/Cammy/Gomez/Gionta/Pouliot and the goalies are working well. Everyone else has been questionable, yes, even Markov.

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01-17-2010, 12:44 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by thetrueblack View Post
First post.

I'm not for or against either goalie - I'm just in it for us winning, no matter who or how.

For posters to compare Price to greats of the past is a real stretch. You might instead wonder why BG has fast-tracked him to the #1 spot so abruptly. He gives up odd soft goals, but considering his age, the situation, it is understandable. His upside is very high.

For his to-the-hilt defenders, you don't seem to see anything wrong with anything he does. Soft goals do deflate teams. He lets in one nearly every game. Players play more on their heels, pinch less, hesitate - there is not the confidence to take a chance. Part of that is obviously ability, part is coaching, but part has to be put on the goalie - no matter his upside.

Halak supporters / bashers have similar problems.

There are so many other weak aspects to the team, it is amazing that so many posts are devoted exclusively to this topic. The team has a defensive corps and a forwards corps that do not mesh at all. The lack of depth is frightening, and we have nothing after the top two lines - or five players now. We have two players who have no business plying their trade in the NHL now, one who is a luxury we cannot afford, and a collection of defensemen who back in whatever the situation. The team as a whole concedes the corners and back of the net automatically, and generally are too deep to defend against the point. Our faceoffs are pretty poor, our lack of imagination brutal and still we do not defend our teammates after late hits or cheap shots - especially our goalies, who are always left to themselves after the usual scrums.

To have two goalies who are more than capable is a real luxury. The enemy is not ourselves...
Damn,the best 1st post I've read on this board ever. Excellent. Still, I disagree about Price being capable.

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01-17-2010, 12:46 AM
  #279
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[QUOTE=E = CH²;23241074]Yeah Price gave up a huge fat juicy rebound to alfy and couldn't keep his stick on the ice for the save on the rebound. That's why the sens scored at least 1 of the 2 goals.

You like to think the "sens battled back". That is not what I saw. I saw the momentum shift completely after that stinker, and then Price couldn't make a difficult save on that deflection then Brodeur made a good save on Gionta and didn't allow any more stinkers and they won the game.


QUOTE]

Price gave up a stinker on the Alfie goal but Brodeur made a tough save off Gionta.

Since we take so much time looking at the goalies..let's take a look at the difference between the plays the shooter makes.

Alfie does not shoot the puck immediately when he gets the rebound, he switches to his backhand to get the goalie moving laterally to open up the 5 hole. While I can agree, Price has a lazy stick at times, when you move laterally it is not the same as when you are facing the shooter straight on. He opens up the legs and its an easy goal.

As for Gionta...if Gionta moves to his backhand on that play the Habs score because he gets the goalie moving to open his legs. Even then, the puck was deflected so switching to the backhand would have resulted in an easy goal. Instead he pulled what we like to call a "Higgins" around these parts and shot it right at the goalie. He did not force the goalie to move so it was a basic "position save" for Brodeur.

There is just way too much criticism of both goalies especially Price on this board. Goals that are considered weak scored against us, are called "beauty's" when we are the ones that score the exact same goals.

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01-17-2010, 12:46 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
Damn,the best 1st post I've read on this board ever. Excellent. Still, I disagree about Price being capable.
Yep he's uncapable, What has your boiii Jaroslav "Back-up" Halak ever won?
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01-17-2010, 12:47 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
Damn,the best 1st post I've read on this board ever. Excellent. Still, I disagree about Price being capable.
price is definitely capable
just to what extent...

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01-17-2010, 12:52 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Being a goalie myself i always feel im watching another game then most people because to some people every goal is the goalies fault but to me i look at the play then make my decision whether it was a **** goal or just a good goal. Most of the time the goals both are goalies let in are just good goals. Take for example ottawa's first goal, over hear people are blaming Price but if that had been Cammy or gionta or even paccioretty scoring that goal against the other team people would be praising them on how good a shot it was.

Remeber this goal? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN8sjGBbheM Had Price let that in people would be like OMG he has such a bad glove hand or he's to deep in his net but since it was against another team people are saying it was such a nice goal,etc.
LOL...This was a goal I wanted to give an example of in one of my posts. I completely agree, we never give credit to opposing shooters. It's always, "what a softies, his glove hand sucks, why is he on his knees etc. I mean the goal scored by Smith was just a perfect shot imo. It hit right under the crossbar and post and went in. He couldn't do that again if he tried.

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01-17-2010, 12:57 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by rgolt View Post
price is definitely capable
just to what extent...
He is expecting Price to have an impact like Roy and Dryden back then... RIGHT NOW. If he doesnt, he is a bust.

Price cannot learn and gain experience. He needs to be dominant now.

Every other goalie reaches their full potential at 26+ yr old. Price needs to reach that level now or he will be qualified as a bust and must be trade asap.

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01-17-2010, 12:58 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
LOL...This was a goal I wanted to give an example of in one of my posts. I completely agree, we never give credit to opposing shooters. It's always, "what a softies, his glove hand sucks, why is he on his knees etc. I mean the goal scored by Smith was just a perfect shot imo. It hit right under the crossbar and post and went in. He couldn't do that again if he tried.
Even the alfie goal was just a goal scorers goal. He went forehand to backhand and put it right thru Price's legs while Price was making his movement. But of course in Montreal people think it was a "stinker" ,thank god none of our goalies ever let in the Kippersuf(sp?) goal or we would never hear the end of it.

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01-17-2010, 01:05 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Sens outplayed the Habs, plain and simple. I don't get why people need to find a scapegoat after every loss... Why not just accepting that the entire team sucked? Sure, maybe Price should of had the first goal, but was he the sole reason for the loss? I really don't think so... I mean, the team did have 6 power play opportunities, and failed to score on any of them.

I just can't stand blaming goalies for losses (unless they really crap the bed and stop absolutely nothing)... maybe it's because I was a goalie back when I played soccer and hockey and I sort of see things a little differently when it comes to them.
Agreed.

Personally, I think Halak is the better goalie by far, but I wouldn't criticize Price for this game. The first goal was an absolutely perfect shot by a guy who has a great shot. The second one was a nifty play by Alfredsson. It looked bad, but it's hard to blame Price. The third goal was a big deflection.

It was just a matter of Ottawa capitalizing on their chances.

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01-17-2010, 01:07 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Bass Lee View Post
Agreed.

Personally, I think Halak is the better goalie by far, but I wouldn't criticize Price for this game. The first goal was an absolutely perfect shot by a guy who has a great shot. The second one was a nifty play by Alfredsson. It looked bad, but it's hard to blame Price. The third goal was a big deflection.

It was just a matter of Ottawa capitalizing on their chances.
So how does Halak for Karrlsson sound

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01-17-2010, 01:11 AM
  #287
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So how does Halak for Karrlsson sound
Tempting to be honest. I'm a huge Halak fan, and think he's an above average starter in this league.

On the other hand, I'm also a huge Karlsson fan, and watching him reach his full potential in the blue, blanc et rouge would be very tough to watch.

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01-17-2010, 01:17 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Yep he's uncapable, What has your boiii Jaroslav "Back-up" Halak ever won?
Seems to me Halak has a much better win/loss record, save percentage, and goals against record.

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01-17-2010, 01:23 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
Seems to me Halak has a much better win/loss record, save percentage, and goals against record.
In his what 20 games played this season? and like i said before if i remember correctly we don't play Atlanta or NYI anymore.

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01-17-2010, 01:26 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
Seems to me Halak has a much better win/loss record, save percentage, and goals against record.
I agree with you 100%. These Price fanboys are are in love with him and you won't change their mind. It's a waste of time.

1st post on these HF boards !

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01-17-2010, 01:30 AM
  #291
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Tempting to be honest. I'm a huge Halak fan, and think he's an above average starter in this league.

On the other hand, I'm also a huge Karlsson fan, and watching him reach his full potential in the blue, blanc et rouge would be very tough to watch.
Wait what ? Tempting ? Halak's pretty good ... better than what we have for sure ! But you can't give Karlsson for him right now. He's not YET a proven number 1, you don't know how many games he can handle, he gives up a ton of rebounds, he'll not be as cheap next year (we still have 3.8 millions investead in Leclaire next season) and I'd say the Sens are not in a postion to trade their top prospect who has, IMHO, a better upside than Halak.

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01-17-2010, 01:35 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by thetrueblack View Post
First post.

I'm not for or against either goalie - I'm just in it for us winning, no matter who or how.

For posters to compare Price to greats of the past is a real stretch. You might instead wonder why BG has fast-tracked him to the #1 spot so abruptly. He gives up odd soft goals, but considering his age, the situation, it is understandable. His upside is very high.

For his to-the-hilt defenders, you don't seem to see anything wrong with anything he does. Soft goals do deflate teams. He lets in one nearly every game. Players play more on their heels, pinch less, hesitate - there is not the confidence to take a chance. Part of that is obviously ability, part is coaching, but part has to be put on the goalie - no matter his upside.

Halak supporters / bashers have similar problems.

There are so many other weak aspects to the team, it is amazing that so many posts are devoted exclusively to this topic. The team has a defensive corps and a forwards corps that do not mesh at all. The lack of depth is frightening, and we have nothing after the top two lines - or five players now. We have two players who have no business plying their trade in the NHL now, one who is a luxury we cannot afford, and a collection of defensemen who back in whatever the situation. The team as a whole concedes the corners and back of the net automatically, and generally are too deep to defend against the point. Our faceoffs are pretty poor, our lack of imagination brutal and still we do not defend our teammates after late hits or cheap shots - especially our goalies, who are always left to themselves after the usual scrums.

To have two goalies who are more than capable is a real luxury. The enemy is not ourselves...
Welcome to HFboards. Great first post. Keep it coming.

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I agree with you 100%. These Price fanboys are are in love with him and you won't change their mind. It's a waste of time.

1st post on these HF boards !
Welcome.

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01-17-2010, 01:37 AM
  #293
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I agree with you 100%. These Price fanboys are are in love with him and you won't change their mind. It's a waste of time.

1st post on these HF boards !
Holy Fricoli! I thought I was all alone. Nice to see others who agree.

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01-17-2010, 02:31 AM
  #294
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First off, im not going to bother reading through all the pages, but I was at the game, and here are my thoughts:

Price was not to blame entirely for this lose, yes he let in some softies, but for crying out loud, we have a one line freaking team!!!!!!!! Dags sucks a$$ and needs to be booted from this team A.S.A.P!! Someone else needs to be tried. It's pretty easy to shut us down when we have one line.

P.S Plecky is not worth the 6million dollar price tag some ppl around here put on him, I mean wow!! Maybe 4.5 tops, but even that is stretching it.

Now im gonna go sleep my drunken sadness away. night!

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01-17-2010, 06:55 AM
  #295
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Carey Price is not a franchise goalie. Not going to happen. Great goalies make great saves. He blows easy saves like the first goal. If he has any kind of value, and I find that very hard to believe, he should be traded before Halak. For the record, I now give up on this guy completely. Epic fail.
get back on the bandwagon in a cpl weeks. you clearly are an impatient fan the kid is still young. i don't recall luongo or fleury being very good at first??? RIGHT? Lets not forget price was the youngest goalie to ever reach 50 wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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01-17-2010, 08:53 AM
  #296
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I won't blame Price on this one, but he sure didn't help. Should have taken advantage of unusual big number of power plays we had.
This, really. Brodeur played awesome, and kept out a couple of scrums that more often than not would have resulted in goals. Price wasn't "hot", but he was solid for at least the last half of the game... certainly long enough that, had the PP capitalized on a chance or two, it could have been a completely different game.

Don't agree that the game "was over" after the short handed goal, like someone else has said. Pouliot got that right back, and you could feel the energy in the crowd through the TV. For me, it was the Alfredsson tying goal that brought everyone down, and then the Phillips goal (followed by 2 missed opportunities on the PP) was the nail in the coffin. After that, Price played solid while everyone in front of him played fairly uninspired, and only created a buzz a couple times over the next 30 minutes of play.

Gomez was sliding by swinging at pucks with one hand on the stick instead of getting in there and fighting for position (again... as was Lapierre a little too often for a guy whose spot/role as an energy/forechecking guy are "in question" right now... and he concentrate more on actually getting the puck into the zone instead of just making a sweet pass to their D when he tries a dump in). Spacek just couldn't do anything right with the puck, EVER. Metro made a few suspect plays with the puck, and could have created more by directing more pucks at the net and going there instead of dump-off passes to the side, etc.

Liked seeing D'Ago hestitate less when he had the puck in possible shooting positions, and taking a couple of good, quick shots. Unfortunately he still sucks at everything else. Thought Cammy had a couple of really good chances, but was pretty much invisible on 80% of the ice and for most of the game outside of a couple of chances. I thought Gionta was buzzing pretty well, and created most of what that line was doing, but again, he was a non-factor for much too long this game. Plekanec was his usual reliable self, and worked hard out there. I also thought MaxPac played as well as anyone out there (especially creating pressure in the Sens' zone), and deserved much more icetime than he got.

Oh, and what's the total number of players who score their first NHL goal against our goalies up to? It really is getting old watching refs/players grab pucks for those guys.

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01-17-2010, 08:53 AM
  #297
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Whatever! Personally, Carey Price has completely exhausted any homerism I ever had for him. He was on the cusp for me about a year now. I'm just completely tired of thinking up excuses for him. He keeps playing net, this team loses. People will make excuses saying it is a team game, but i see too many soft goals to blame the team.

Have fun with that potentia.
Your acting as if he just lost the Cup final or something.

It was ONE game, and he isn't even to blame. We had SIX powerplays, and didn't score on one of them. Our 5 on 5 game is practically inexistant, and our deffense doesn't look too strong either. There were SO many other things wrong with this game, but of coure Carey Price is the scapegoat.

Will you still feel so negatively towards him if he strings a few wins together? Your saying Price has lost your support, judging by your comments, i doubt he even had it to begin with, and frankly i doubt he even cares.

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01-17-2010, 09:55 AM
  #298
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Agreed.

Personally, I think Halak is the better goalie by far, but I wouldn't criticize Price for this game. The first goal was an absolutely perfect shot by a guy who has a great shot. The second one was a nifty play by Alfredsson. It looked bad, but it's hard to blame Price. The third goal was a big deflection.

It was just a matter of Ottawa capitalizing on their chances.
Oh great now we have Hens fans in here beating there chest on how magnificent their players are. Honestly we don't give a **** !

Go Hens Go !

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01-17-2010, 10:19 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Even the alfie goal was just a goal scorers goal. He went forehand to backhand and put it right thru Price's legs while Price was making his movement. But of course in Montreal people think it was a "stinker" ,thank god none of our goalies ever let in the Kippersuf(sp?) goal or we would never hear the end of it.
Nothing's ever good enough for us. We chased a prime Patrick Roy out of Montreal because of his play. What other fanbase can make a claim like that?

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01-17-2010, 10:46 AM
  #300
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Read my previous post. Lions in the Winter has a great analysis of our team's overall abilities.

Bottom line: Too much dead-weight on this team! The defenceman are old and slow, don't know how to stand up at the blue-line and turn the puck over a lot. The top 6 is decent but it's obvious Cammy and Plekanec need a big, skilled body on their line because they both have trouble along the boards. And the bottom 6 seem to be useless these days...Laraque should be in the AHL, same with Bergeron.

I hope Gainey traded some of the veteran D and demotes some of the bottom 6 players and brings up the young kids to replace them. They can't be any worse. They need a wake up-call.

It seems like only Plekanec/Cammy/Gomez/Gionta/Pouliot and the goalies are working well. Everyone else has been questionable, yes, even Markov.

Who's gonna take our old and slow and overpaid D-men ?

The problem with the Habs is that they have a very average team that never progress really (except for the year they won the Eastern Conf. Championship). They are always borderline to make or not make the playoffs since 15 years.

Gainey has his hands tied and is always facing the same dilemma: trade or not trade at the deadline ? He missed over the years tremendous opportunities to trade potential UFA players for good draft picks or talented youngsters.

On top of that, he traded two of his most talented young forwards - Ribeiro and Lats. Now, he is having another dilemma on his hands: he got to trade one of his young goalie... and he probably gonna trade the wrong one. He signed a bunch of smaller forwards at premium price, and some slow and over-the-hill d-men. He rushed his youngsters too while they should had spent more time at AHL level: Price, S.K., D'Ags, Pac. Lats.

Gillett must be happy to be out of this mess, and is probably laughing all the way to the bank.


Last night game was apivot game. You win, you have tremendous chances to make the playoffs. You loose, and you're going down badly afterwards in the standing. That was a morale killer loss. Pencil it on your calendars.


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