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Could Jeff Carter become a Leaf ??

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01-06-2005, 02:36 PM
  #1
Mess
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Could Jeff Carter become a Leaf ??

I think Bobby Clarke screwed up BIG TIME ..

Bobby Clarke didn't sign him to save money for the Flyers but that royally screwed Carter and Richards who if they signed now would make far less money under the new CBA with lower Rookie entry level contracts and no bonuses ..Anthony Stewart, Getzlaf, Perry and Phaneuf their WJC teammates will all make more $$ because they were signed old CBA last minute.

Do you not feel this pisses Carter and Richards off .. when in fact other than Phaneuf may be considered better NHL prospects .. ??

By the old CBA rules players had to be signed before 2 years had past since being drafted by the old CBA.. That means they need to be signed by this June 2005 .. but with not CBA that is not possible ... but that is not my point even about players rights

What is stopping Jeff Carter who is now 20 years old from not accepting the Flyers offer and since he can't go back in the entry draft ... He would be declared a UFA after June 1, 2005.

As a UFA he is not bound by rookie entry level contracts but by UFA contracts which are unlimited and can sign for any amount he can get ..

If Carter's Agent has a head on his shoulders why would he not go this route??

He could shop Carter around and get lots of interest and if Carter wanted to be loyal to Philly even though they where not to him, his agent could even give Clarke the first right to match and UFA offer his client got ..

Nothing the Flyers could do about this situation ... IMO

This situation I am describing is nothing new as it existed in the old CBA as well .. An example was Kiel McLeod - Selected by Columbus Blue Jackets round 2 #53 overall 2001 NHL Entry Draft

....because of his age 20 and that he could not agree on a contract he became and UFA rather then return to the entry draft ..and eventually ended up signing with Phoenix as a UFA ..

This is the Carter situation all over again ... only this time Clarke because of the lookout can't even sign Carter if he wanted to .. and with NO Season .. Carter will become a UFA just like all the other NHL players whose last year of their contracts woould be wipped out by a year long lockout and cancelation, like Leetch, Roberts, etc

Bottom line .. Jeff Carter may have 30 teams to chose from when the NHL returns and not just Philly IMO ..

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01-06-2005, 02:47 PM
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Patty Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I think Bobby Clarke screwed up BIG TIME ..

Bobby Clarke didn't sign him to save money for the Flyers but that royally screwed Carter and Richards who if they signed now would make far less money under the new CBA with lower Rookie entry level contracts and no bonuses ..Anthony Stewart, Getzlaf, Perry and Phaneuf their WJC teammates will all make more $$ because they were signed old CBA last minute.

Do you not feel this pisses Carter and Richards off .. when in fact other than Phaneuf may be considered better NHL prospects .. ??

By the old CBA rules players had to be signed before 2 years had past since being drafted by the old CBA.. That means they need to be signed by this June 2005 .. but with not CBA that is not possible ... but that is not my point even about players rights

What is stopping Jeff Carter who is now 20 years old from not accepting the Flyers offer and since he can't go back in the entry draft ... He would be declared a UFA after June 1, 2005.

As a UFA he is not bound by rookie entry level contracts but by UFA contracts which are unlimited and can sign for any amount he can get ..

If Carter's Agent has a head on his shoulders why would he not go this route??

He could shop Carter around and get lots of interest and if Carter wanted to be loyal to Philly even though they where not to him, his agent could even give Clarke the first right to match and UFA offer his client got ..

Nothing the Flyers could do about this situation ... IMO

This situation I am describing is nothing new as it existed in the old CBA as well .. An example was Kiel McLeod - Selected by Columbus Blue Jackets round 2 #53 overall 2001 NHL Entry Draft

....because of his age 20 and that he could not agree on a contract he became and UFA rather then return to the entry draft ..and eventually ended up signing with Phoenix as a UFA ..

This is the Carter situation all over again ... only this time Clarke because of the lookout can't even sign Carter if he wanted to .. and with NO Season .. Carter will become a UFA just like all the other NHL players whose last year of their contracts woould be wipped out by a year long lockout and cancelation, like Leetch, Roberts, etc

Bottom line .. Jeff Carter may have 30 teams to chose from when the NHL returns and not just Philly IMO ..
that's what was going through my head everytime Miller or one of the other cronies mentioned how happy Philly fans must be with Carter. I'd love it. Not even if he becomes a Leaf, but if he goes anywhere else and has a great career. Clarke is an idiot, IMO and I'd laugh for days to see him get screwed by that move.

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01-06-2005, 02:50 PM
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I would throw a ****load of money at him.

But it's unlikely that he'll end up anywhere but Philly.

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01-06-2005, 03:02 PM
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Why not? Assuming he becomes an UFA. Wouldnt he want to play close to his home and for the best fans in the world- Leafs.

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01-06-2005, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl O'Steen
I would throw a ****load of money at him.

But it's unlikely that he'll end up anywhere but Philly.
I would as well .. I would rather the leafs spend the money on this type of UFA then bringing in a Kovalev mercenary type ..

With a Hard Cap ..this is the move a team makes ..

and in regards to Philly .. Unless Carter wants to play there I am not sure he is not on the open market come June 1 2005 ... If the season is cancelled that might be a slive lining that people could look forward to

Sault-Ste.-Marie is not too far from Toronto, perhaps Season tickets to his parents might just change Carter's mind on were to play..

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01-06-2005, 03:56 PM
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Seasons tixs to his parents! How about we provide him a car while we're at it..

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01-06-2005, 03:58 PM
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Can he become a UFA though?

I mean we don't have a CBA right now, so the rules that would've made a player in Carter's position a UFA last year wouldn't work in 2005 unless Bettman pulls a Garrioch out of his arse and strikes a deal with the players..

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01-06-2005, 04:06 PM
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there is a good chance he will become a free agent and if he doesn Im sure JFJ will be very interested in him. wow I wish he becomes a Leaf

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01-06-2005, 04:34 PM
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I can't see Clarke and co. idly sitting by wondering what'll happen to their prize picks.

I'd love to be wrong, and hope I am, but I'm pretty sure the new CBA will cover loopholes such as these, giving the GM's an extended period to sign their own picks. Ultimate sweetness though would see Carter become the MVP of the next Philly/Tor playoff matchup, with his linemate, Tucker a close second.

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01-06-2005, 04:38 PM
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Seems other than possible changes to the CBA regarding issues like these drafted unsigned players the only stumbling block may be that the leafs cannot get under a hard cap and would ineligible to sign anyone.

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01-06-2005, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOGiLNY
Can he become a UFA though?

I mean we don't have a CBA right now, so the rules that would've made a player in Carter's position a UFA last year wouldn't work in 2005 unless Bettman pulls a Garrioch out of his arse and strikes a deal with the players..
Well no one knows 100 percent what may happen but it is logical that it could be a realistic possibility .. Leetch will become an UFA as a result of lockout and no season with Zero opportunity for Toronto to resign him and they gave up many assets for him .. Jeff Carter is really only a draft pick at this point and not even a member of the NHLPA currently .. Thinking ..So why would/should a 20 year kid would get preferential treatment over a Hall-of-famer is the bases for my logic here ..

Time will tell .. but since Mr Roberts does not have much time left ... I could not think I would have a problem with Jeff Carter proudly wearing the #7 for the Blue and White ...

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01-06-2005, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOGiLNY
Can he become a UFA though?

I mean we don't have a CBA right now, so the rules that would've made a player in Carter's position a UFA last year wouldn't work in 2005 unless Bettman pulls a Garrioch out of his arse and strikes a deal with the players..
He'd be 20 years old without any type of professional contract. How could he be anything other than a UFA?

What I want to know is that if this does happen, why couldn't the Leafs sign him (or another player in a similar situation) to play with the Baby Leafs next year with the promise that they'll get a full contract when a new CBA is signed. Something similar to what they've done with JS Aubin.

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01-06-2005, 04:43 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
I can't see Clarke and co. idly sitting by wondering what'll happen to their prize picks.

I'd love to be wrong, and hope I am, but I'm pretty sure the new CBA will cover loopholes such as these, giving the GM's an extended period to sign their own picks. Ultimate sweetness though would see Carter become the MVP of the next Philly/Tor playoff matchup, with his linemate, Tucker a close second.
They may give them time .. but what if they do not sign .... No one can force them even if the NHL opened up and gave Philly 1 month grace period to get a deal done .. The most that Carter and Richards could get would be new CBA entry level max and no bonuses as discussed .. and if I was in their shoes and all my recent WJC team-mates are making hundreds or thousands more them I am because Clarke screwed me over I would not be so quick to sign on the dotted line ..

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01-06-2005, 04:46 PM
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Bettman pulls a Garrioch out of his arse
Sounds painful.

I think Bettman makes up roughly 0.2% of Garrioch's body mass.

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01-06-2005, 05:00 PM
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I agree with Messenger why would Carter and Richards sign for less when they can reject the Philly offer and become UFA and sign whereever they like. If i was in there position I would do the same thing.

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01-06-2005, 05:08 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
He'd be 20 years old without any type of professional contract. How could he be anything other than a UFA?

What I want to know is that if this does happen, why couldn't the Leafs sign him (or another player in a similar situation) to play with the Baby Leafs next year with the promise that they'll get a full contract when a new CBA is signed. Something similar to what they've done with JS Aubin.
I certainly agree on the first part ...

The second part is that until June 1st, 2005 he still is property of the Flyers..until that magic day comes .. So he can't be signed at the moment despite turning 20 Jan 1, 2005 .. He can only remain as a Overage CHL player and can't even play for the Flyers farm team yet.. He played in the Playoffs last years on a PTO after his OHL team was eliminted .. Even after that, there is an agreement between the NHL and the CHL that no player may play in the AHL, unless he has played 4 seasons in the CHL first (Spezza situation) or permission from his CHL team directly (Bergeron Case) .. Otherwise any player 19 or younger as of Sept 15th , 2004 had to be returned to their junior clubs or stay with the parent NHL clubs .. AHL was not an option for Carter and the Flyers at the beginning of the season .. Not sure if he may leave his OHL team now and join the AHL as a result of being 20, that may in fact pe possible and his OHL team could replace him with another Overage Junior ... and not sure Jeff Carter would leave Sault-Ste.-Marie now even if he could, and abondon his team mates and coach ..

We had a simlar situation here in Kelowna with Kiel McLeod (birthdate Dec 30,1982) He needed to be signed by Columbus by Dec 31st, 2002 of the year in which he turned 20 .(notice the 1 day grace period Columbus had). It was in all the papers here over the Christmas break that Year .. If he would have come to an agreement with Columbus there was talk of Kiel leaving Kelowna and playing for Columbus in the NHL or in the AHL for Columbus's farm team, and not returning to the Rockets in the New year .. Kiel on $$$ mainly decided that he would rather finish the year in Kelowna as they were Memorial Cup favourites at the time .. As a result of not signing with Columbus ..Kiel McLeod became an UFA June 1st, 2003 and signed with Phoenix June 3rd 2003 ..

The NHL and old CBA had a lot of these screwy rules and keeping all the dates straight is really confusing ..

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01-06-2005, 05:13 PM
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I'm praying for the same thing...in fact I was praying for it since the lockout started. What does work against us is that players have shown loyalty to teams they were drafted by...which I hope sadly isn't the case.

What does work for us was that before the two were drafted, I was looking up prospects and I happened to notice that Jeff Carter and Mike Richards both picked the Toronto Maple Leafs as their favourite NHL teams in the personal bios on the Greyhounds and Rangers website.

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01-06-2005, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
The second part is that until June 1st, 2005 he still is property of the Flyers..until that magic day comes .. So he can't be signed at the moment despite turning 20 Jan 1, 2005 .. He can only remain as a Overage CHL player and can't even play for the Flyers farm team yet.. He played in the Playoffs last years on a PTO after his OHL team was eliminted .. Even after that, there is an agreement between the NHL and the CHL that no player may play in the AHL, unless he has played 4 seasons in the CHL first (Spezza situation) or permission from his CHL team directly (Bergeron Case) .. Otherwise any player 19 or younger as of Sept 15th , 2004 had to be returned to their junior clubs or stay with the parent NHL clubs .. AHL was not an option for Carter and the Flyers at the beginning of the season .. Not sure if he may leave his OHL team now and join the AHL as a result of being 20, that may in fact pe possible and his OHL team could replace him with another Overage Junior ... and not sure Jeff Carter would leave Sault-Ste.-Marie now even if he could, and abondon his team mates and coach ..

We had a simlar situation here in Kelowna with Kiel McLeod (birthdate Dec 30,1982) He needed to be signed by Columbus by Dec 31st, 2002 of the year in which he turned 20 .(notice the 1 day grace period Columbus had). It was in all the papers here over the Christmas break that Year .. If he would have come to an agreement with Columbus there was talk of Kiel leaving Kelowna and playing for Columbus in the NHL or in the AHL for Columbus's farm team, and not returning to the Rockets in the New year .. Kiel on $$$ mainly decided that he would rather finish the year in Kelowna as they were Memorial Cup favourites at the time .. As a result of not signing with Columbus ..Kiel McLeod became an UFA June 1st, 2003 and signed with Phoenix June 3rd 2003 ..

The NHL and old CBA had a lot of these screwy rules and keeping all the dates straight is really confusing ..
I meant for next year though.

Like what if there's no CBA within the next year and a Carter-type player becomes a UFA after June 1st.

What would stop the Leafs from signing this player to a PTO and having him play for the Baby Leafs when they move to Toronto next year?

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01-06-2005, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuppY
I agree with Messenger why would Carter and Richards sign for less when they can reject the Philly offer and become UFA and sign whereever they like. If i was in there position I would do the same thing.
Jeff Carter turned 20 ..Jan 1st 2005 and Mike Richards will do the same Feb 11, 1985..

Under the OLD CBA .. They were 100 % guaranteed too old to re-enter the 2005 entry draft id unsigned ...

If the New CBA comes in and Bettman gets his Entry level max or 850 k and no bonuses then Carter and Richards are far better off talking the UFA route with no $$$ limitation.. then sign those contracts with Philly ..

Philly themselves may have know this was going to happen and Carter and Richards already have handshake agreements in place to sign in Philly when a new CBA is signed and the UFA option gives Clarke the ability to pay them more then Entry level max would .. That is possible .. But I may be giving Clarke far too much credit .. He may not be that bright and just gotten some insurance from Bettman that he would get a chance to sign his own prospects..

However I am not sure how reassuring Bettman was because Sutter in Calgary signed Phaneuf on the prior evening of the Lockout, Anaheim signed Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf and Mike Keenan rushed and signed Anthony Stewart last second before the lockout .. So either Clarke or the other GM's didn't believe Bettman or want to take the chance ...

We will see what happens .. should be interesting ..

Both would look great as Leafs IMO

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01-06-2005, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
I meant for next year though.

Like what if there's no CBA within the next year and a Carter-type player becomes a UFA after June 1st.

What would stop the Leafs from signing this player to a PTO and having him play for the Baby Leafs when they move to Toronto next year?
If he is ruled a UFA on June 1st, 2005 ... Absolutely nothing would stop that situation from happening as you describe .. UNLESS .. the NHL has made a special LOCKOUT PROVISION that these players fall under a different set of rules then the OLD CBA.. Basically keeping them Philly prospects by the skin of their teeth until the lockout is lifted.. giving them only the ability to play in Philly with the Phantoms .. but I like the way you are trying to find loopholes like I am ..

The NHL could not IMO have thought or cared about these few strange and odd UFA cases I don't believe or at least I hope not ..

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01-06-2005, 05:35 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf the Lucky
I'm praying for the same thing...in fact I was praying for it since the lockout started. What does work against us is that players have shown loyalty to teams they were drafted by...which I hope sadly isn't the case.

What does work for us was that before the two were drafted, I was looking up prospects and I happened to notice that Jeff Carter and Mike Richards both picked the Toronto Maple Leafs as their favourite NHL teams in the personal bios on the Greyhounds and Rangers website.
Correct about favourite teams .. I read that as well .. and if given the chance to become UFA and play for the Leafs .. I am praying that some loophole exists that would make that happen ..

If the NHL does have a year this season and lifts the lockout, then I bet Philly gets Carter under contract and he plays the balance of the season in the NHL perhaps .. but the longer the lockout goes and his OHL team stays in contention that may not happen .. .

A season cancellation would guarantee that both Richards and Carter pass that magic June 1st, 2005 date unsigned and unable to be signed and NEW CBA talks would not start up again until Sept 2005 , next training camp time.. No incentive on either part to negotiate during the Summer when Hockey is not on or played ..

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01-06-2005, 05:42 PM
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He'll sign with the flyers again.

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01-06-2005, 06:13 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by PanthersRule
He'll sign with the flyers again.
Well that settles it ..

You seem to have an Iron Clad case there .. Particularly with the "again" part, even though he has never signed anything but a tryout contract before with Flyers farme team to play a few games., but then again last season his rights were not in question either like will be June 1st. 2005

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01-06-2005, 06:34 PM
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It is sort of true...considering how Kobasew could've elected for free agency as well but decided to sign with the Flames. Draftees seem to appreciate the teams they're picked by.

Then again, Kobasew might've signed with them because they were close to home and unlike the Canucks, he'd have a greater chance at making the team. The Leafs on the other hand would probably more favourable for guys like Carter and Richards to make the team than a pretty deep team like Philly.

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01-06-2005, 06:44 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf the Lucky
It is sort of true...considering how Kobasew could've elected for free agency as well but decided to sign with the Flames. Draftees seem to appreciate the teams they're picked by.

Then again, Kobasew might've signed with them because they were close to home and unlike the Canucks, he'd have a greater chance at making the team. The Leafs on the other hand would probably more favourable for guys like Carter and Richards to make the team than a pretty deep team like Philly.
Not sure of the loyalty factor .. .If the GM purposely did not sign them to save a few $$$ as the new CBA lowers the amounts they can make them perhaps they should be upset ..

Anything is possible .. but if they are ruled UFA I see no real need to take less money in Phily due to loyalty and may go to the highest bidder ..

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