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Ray Whitney to Pens Imminent (MOD EDIT: No, ESPN just wants you to pay them money)

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Old
01-18-2010, 04:54 PM
  #26
deakka
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probsbly will cost a 2nd and feds/dupuis for salary dump i guess. dont know if i like us giving up picks. We have one of the worst farms in the NHL as it is But i guess thats the price you have to pay for rentals

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01-18-2010, 04:57 PM
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Whitney would be a good addition. He could help Malkin's line. Having him and Kunitz inserted into the lineup around the trade deadline could be magical for this team.

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01-18-2010, 05:14 PM
  #28
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It would be great to get him for a 2nd and a couple mid tier prospects. Guy is still talented and a top 6 forward. I don't know where the cap room is coming from but I would love to get him on the team for a playoff run.

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01-18-2010, 05:16 PM
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Return of the Whitney Play?

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01-18-2010, 05:17 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Goncharmander View Post
I think you're all crazy. We don't need Ray Whitney. Adding isn't the key at this point. We can't just buy our way out of a tough spot every time we get in one. it gets old. It's like the team feels that they can't do anything on their own, and they need an injection of something new every so often to kickstart them. Hopefully that will wear off once the team gets older and more consistent, but God help us until then.
...yes, god help the penguins, who have made excellent deals at or around the trade deadline the past two years to reach the stanley cup final both times. and those first two cups just weren't the same because they had to trade for francis and ulfie in '91 and then tocchet and kjell in '92. if only those teams could have worked through things on their own without the intervention of a meddling GM.

c'mon -- why the melodrama? now there's definitely something to be said against making a trade just for the sake of shaking things up. but if it improves the team and helps for the playoffs, why not? i think after these past few seasons, shero and the front office deserve the benefit of the doubt here.

i'm not saying ray whitney is specifically that guy -- i could take him or leave him -- but this attitude about trades is puzzling.

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01-18-2010, 05:17 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by 45flight View Post
Return of the Whitney Play?
Something I have been waiting for someone to say.

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01-18-2010, 05:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
...yes, god help the penguins, who have made excellent deals at or around the trade deadline the past two years to reach the stanley cup final both times. and those first two cups just weren't the same because they had to trade for francis and ulfie in '91 and then tocchet and kjell in '92. if only those teams could have worked through things on their own without the intervention of a meddling GM.

c'mon -- why the melodrama? now there's definitely something to be said against making a trade just for the sake of shaking things up. but if it improves the team and helps for the playoffs, why not? i think after these past few seasons, shero and the front office deserve the benefit of the doubt here.

i'm not saying ray whitney is specifically that guy -- i could take him or leave him -- but this attitude about trades is puzzling.
Uhh, those deals werent rentals those were trades that lead to long standing members of the team. If Whitney was that then it would be a solid move but he wont, be he's a rental or he's going to be on his last legs soon if he re-signs and people will whine and moan about him like they do with Guerin now.

This team has a very weak farm system and we are absolutely reliant on it to help resolve the continuous winger issue so to sell off a 2nd round pick which is a high quality prospect and whatever other mystery prospects of ours for someone who most likely wont be on our roster next fall wouldnt be an extremely smart move, especially after 3 years of doing that. It's fine if it's a one time thing but this has started to become habit.

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01-18-2010, 05:31 PM
  #33
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Any minute now...


...

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01-18-2010, 05:34 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45flight View Post
Return of the Whitney Play?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Something I have been waiting for someone to say.
Whitney slides in the back door, too tap in a great one timer.

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01-18-2010, 05:36 PM
  #35
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Thoughts from a Cane's fan:
The Hurricanes have been looking into moving Whitney, and he would be a great fit on the pens. He's a very smart player on the wing, and would fit in well with Crosby- he can score, and he can set up plays, which plays well with Crosby's newfound shooting.

That said, he's going to be shopped around, so the price would be pretty high. A Guy his age still producing at around a PPG who's won a few cups, that's valuable come deadline day. You're not going to see him come cheap. But he would be valuable to teams looking to win in the playoffs.

That said, he has a NTC, and our GM has flat out stated that Whitney would have the final say in any deal, and if he says no, that he won't press him. That means he may not be moving at all, so even if there are 20 possible deals lined up and ready to go, it still may not happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Rather have Ruutu
Explicitly named as part of the core the team will be building around. It's not going to happen. That said, if you wanted to ship us Crosby or Malkin, the Canes wouldn't say no. Short of that kind of overpayment, I very much doubt he'll be moved.

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01-18-2010, 05:47 PM
  #36
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i wouldnt mind acquiring ray whitney

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01-18-2010, 05:54 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
This team has a very weak farm system and we are absolutely reliant on it to help resolve the continuous winger issue so to sell off a 2nd round pick which is a high quality prospect and whatever other mystery prospects of ours for someone who most likely wont be on our roster next fall wouldnt be an extremely smart move, especially after 3 years of doing that. It's fine if it's a one time thing but this has started to become habit.
Quote:
In total, just 30 percent of second-rounders go on to play 200 or more games (100 for goalies). That’s just three players in 10, a very good average in baseball, but not a lot of return for a proven NHLer.
Link.

I agree with what your saying in principal, though it depends on the deal. Whitney fits this team like a glove (near PPG for his entire career, goal scorer, strong PP'er, RH shot, veteran etc). I'd give up a 2nd rounder all day for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
Thoughts from a Cane's fan:
The Hurricanes have been looking into moving Whitney, and he would be a great fit on the pens. He's a very smart player on the wing, and would fit in well with Crosby- he can score, and he can set up plays, which plays well with Crosby's newfound shooting.

That said, he's going to be shopped around, so the price would be pretty high. A Guy his age still producing at around a PPG who's won a few cups, that's valuable come deadline day. You're not going to see him come cheap. But he would be valuable to teams looking to win in the playoffs.

That said, he has a NTC, and our GM has flat out stated that Whitney would have the final say in any deal, and if he says no, that he won't press him. That means he may not be moving at all, so even if there are 20 possible deals lined up and ready to go, it still may not happen.
It will be interesting. He's certainly at the top of the 2nd tier wingers that may be available.

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01-18-2010, 05:55 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
...yes, god help the penguins, who have made excellent deals at or around the trade deadline the past two years to reach the stanley cup final both times. and those first two cups just weren't the same because they had to trade for francis and ulfie in '91 and then tocchet and kjell in '92. if only those teams could have worked through things on their own without the intervention of a meddling GM.

c'mon -- why the melodrama? now there's definitely something to be said against making a trade just for the sake of shaking things up. but if it improves the team and helps for the playoffs, why not? i think after these past few seasons, shero and the front office deserve the benefit of the doubt here.

i'm not saying ray whitney is specifically that guy -- i could take him or leave him -- but this attitude about trades is puzzling.
I think the team needs to be shaken up as much as anybody, but we don't know what the cost is going to be. A canes fan came in here and said he thought the cost would be high. I'm just not willing to give up Caputi for a guy who could (and likely will due to cap restrictions) walk away in July. The only way I see this working is if management has given up on a highly touted prospect, and they're willing to get him off of the shelf.

A more subtle approach than trading might be to take away Malkin's 'A'. The same move is working wonders for Patrick Marleau. You can say that Heatley has been the cause of his 'inflated' point total, but Marleau is either at or close to 30 goals (haven't looked in some time). That's not a result of Dany Heatley.

I'd hate to be in Geno's shoes right now. I'm expected to dominate on the ice, score clutch goals, help lead my team, win the scoring race, and then do it all again come playoff time. I don't think I'd be opposed to taking that 'A' off of his chest.

Back on track though, I don't see a need to make a trade. When the team knows it's time to play, they'll play. Yes, we're not playing extremely well, but I think for the first time in the last few years, just steadying the ship is the best course of action.

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01-18-2010, 05:59 PM
  #39
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ESPN owns a 20% stake in TSN, and I think they are effectively the same source of information. Anyone that finds TSN reliable but thinks ESPN is not would be mistaken.
They're really not. They have completely different personnel, and the discrepancy in the level of dedication to and knowledge about the sport between the two networks is like night and day.

TSN is the best channel for hockey information in the world, with the best analysts. ESPN doesn't even register.


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01-18-2010, 06:02 PM
  #40
shureshot66
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Uhh, those deals werent rentals those were trades that lead to long standing members of the team. If Whitney was that then it would be a solid move but he wont, be he's a rental or he's going to be on his last legs soon if he re-signs and people will whine and moan about him like they do with Guerin now.
very true. my comments were geared toward the idea that the pens shouldn't be looking to make a trade -- period -- because the team shouldn't need that kind of a spark. as i said, i don't have a strong opinion about whitney specifically.

Quote:
This team has a very weak farm system and we are absolutely reliant on it to help resolve the continuous winger issue so to sell off a 2nd round pick which is a high quality prospect and whatever other mystery prospects of ours for someone who most likely wont be on our roster next fall wouldnt be an extremely smart move, especially after 3 years of doing that. It's fine if it's a one time thing but this has started to become habit.
all good points. maybe we're fortunate then, that this is just on ESPN's rumors section, and appears to come from the random musings of a guy in edmonton?

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01-18-2010, 06:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Goncharmander View Post
I think the team needs to be shaken up as much as anybody, but we don't know what the cost is going to be. A canes fan came in here and said he thought the cost would be high. I'm just not willing to give up Caputi for a guy who could (and likely will due to cap restrictions) walk away in July. The only way I see this working is if management has given up on a highly touted prospect, and they're willing to get him off of the shelf.
Random biased Canes fans don't have any inside information (not only is the "high price" bit pure speculation, it's also without precedent for a scoring winger in his late-thirties at the deadline), and Whitney will not net a player like Caputi. Bank on it.

Quote:
A more subtle approach than trading might be to take away Malkin's 'A'. The same move is working wonders for Patrick Marleau. You can say that Heatley has been the cause of his 'inflated' point total, but Marleau is either at or close to 30 goals (haven't looked in some time). That's not a result of Dany Heatley.

I'd hate to be in Geno's shoes right now. I'm expected to dominate on the ice, score clutch goals, help lead my team, win the scoring race, and then do it all again come playoff time. I don't think I'd be opposed to taking that 'A' off of his chest.

Back on track though, I don't see a need to make a trade. When the team knows it's time to play, they'll play. Yes, we're not playing extremely well, but I think for the first time in the last few years, just steadying the ship is the best course of action.
That's subtle? Uh no, that's an affront to a young player who in his only full year with the "A" won an Art Ross and a Conn Smythe...he's not a captain like Marleau who led a perennial underachiever for 4 years.

Taking away a letter from a star isn't a magic cure-all, and it sure as hell isn't worthwhile relations-wise to take it away from a player who was as successful as anyone could possibly imagine during his one year with it.

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01-18-2010, 06:14 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Goncharmander View Post
I think the team needs to be shaken up as much as anybody, but we don't know what the cost is going to be. A canes fan came in here and said he thought the cost would be high. I'm just not willing to give up Caputi for a guy who could (and likely will due to cap restrictions) walk away in July. The only way I see this working is if management has given up on a highly touted prospect, and they're willing to get him off of the shelf.
agreed. i don't think any of us here would have endorsed trading for guerin last winter, but when the cost was just a conditional third-rounder, well that certainly changes things. whitney should and would cost more, making it a tough call.

Quote:
A more subtle approach than trading might be to take away Malkin's 'A'. The same move is working wonders for Patrick Marleau. You can say that Heatley has been the cause of his 'inflated' point total, but Marleau is either at or close to 30 goals (haven't looked in some time). That's not a result of Dany Heatley.

I'd hate to be in Geno's shoes right now. I'm expected to dominate on the ice, score clutch goals, help lead my team, win the scoring race, and then do it all again come playoff time. I don't think I'd be opposed to taking that 'A' off of his chest.
though it's true marleau has been overly sensitive to criticism, especially when ron wilson was still the coach, i think a 30-year-old marleau is more mature to handle that sort of "demotion" than a 23-year-old malkin. hell, get his parents back out here for the stretch run and the playoffs, heh.

Quote:
Back on track though, I don't see a need to make a trade. When the team knows it's time to play, they'll play. Yes, we're not playing extremely well, but I think for the first time in the last few years, just steadying the ship is the best course of action.
as of right now, the team isn't going to have a ton of cap room for the deadline, which would lessen the chance of a trade being made with picks and prospects as being the centerpiece, if that's comforting at all.

the deadline isn't until march 3, and with the olympic break in between, there will be plenty of time for shero and co. to analyze things.

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01-18-2010, 06:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
Explicitly named as part of the core the team will be building around. It's not going to happen. That said, if you wanted to ship us Crosby or Malkin, the Canes wouldn't say no. Short of that kind of overpayment, I very much doubt he'll be moved.

No offense but it wouldn't take anything close to Crosby or Malkin to get Ruutu in a trade... not that it matters because I doubt anyone is asking.

But more to the point, there aren't enough thoroughbreds on your team to acquire either of those guys. Put another way: if your GM suggested we trade either Crosby or Malkin for both E. Staal and Ruutu, Shero wouldn't give it much consideration IMHO... and Staal is a damn good player. Most GMs wouldn't. Those two guys are another echelon up from the best player on your team (Staal), who himself is another echelon up from the rest of your team.

As to this rumor, I believe it because the ESPN guy said he'd bet $20.

If they're using the Edmonton piece as their source, consider that Edmonton's hockey journalists are like the National Enquirer of sports writing, and routinely make **** up because they believe it will happen if they write it. Every year we hear big rumors from Edmonton and every year they're wrong. This may be a contributing reason why the worst trade proposals on this board for Pens players, always come from Edmonton fans. I mean every year... it's like "Here take five of our underachievers for Crosby (except Hemsky... you can't have him), k?!"

In the source food-chain, I believe TSN is more reliable than ESPN BTW, because quite simply they pay more attention to the sport and less to others. Not to say they wouldn't share info but the point I'm getting at is, unless it's TSN saying "Bob McKenzie's sources tell him x,y,z"... then probably it's just drummed up from the interweb. In which case.....

Eklund < TiOPS < My Barber Joe < Canadian Newspaper Journalists < ESPN < TSN.


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01-18-2010, 06:19 PM
  #44
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before we go on... zippo nailed it. i was just e-mailed what the ESPN rumor actually says underneath the ridiculous ****ing headline "Whitney to Pens imminent?"

Quote:
There are several potential trade destinations for Ray Whitney but no hockey writer has put his money where his mouth is. The Edmonton Journal's Jim Matheson writes, "I'd be willing to bet $20 that Carolina Hurricanes winger Ray Whitney, who will be an unrestricted free agent on July 1, will wind up in Pittsburgh, playing with either Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin, at the deadline."

But previously, Matheson wrote that he thought the Boston Bruins would acquire Whitney: "Chances are Carolina Hurricanes UFA Ray Whitney will end up with the Boston Bruins as a trade-deadline deal for a second-round draft pick. The offensively-challenged Bruins will perhaps ask Mark Recchi what he thought of Whitney from the Canes' 2006 Cup run."

There were also reports that the Los Angeles Kings might end up acquiring the 37-year-old soon -- especially if it looks like they won't land Ilya Kovalchuk.

The Columbus Blue Jackets may also be interested, as well as the Philadelphia Flyers.
so... yeah. ESPN rumors sections -- intentionally writing misleading headlines to try and get people to pay a monthly fee for "insider access!"

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01-18-2010, 06:23 PM
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GAH! Sorry had my math signs reversed on teh food chain. Hope no one caught that.

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01-18-2010, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
before we go on... i was just e-mailed what the ESPN rumor actually says underneath the ridiculous ****ing headline "Whitney to Pens imminent?"



so... yeah. ESPN rumors sections -- intentionally writing misleading headlines to try and get people to pay a monthly fee for "insider access!"
Yeah I had this earlier I just wasn't sure if I was allowed to post it or not seeing as how it was a pay site basically so I'd be giving the information out for free. Good to know that from now on I'm allowed to post that it's straight up ridiculous.

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01-18-2010, 06:27 PM
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I realize this is merely a BS rumor, but I definitely like the idea of Ray Whitney on this team. I actually thought about it the other night. Can't imagine he'd cost TOO much more than Guerin did.

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01-18-2010, 06:27 PM
  #48
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Link.

I agree with what your saying in principal, though it depends on the deal. Whitney fits this team like a glove (near PPG for his entire career, goal scorer, strong PP'er, RH shot, veteran etc). I'd give up a 2nd rounder all day for that.




It will be interesting. He's certainly at the top of the 2nd tier wingers that may be available.
I never doubted that Whitney wouldnt be a great player, but what I do doubt is the team's ability to retain him after this season if we were to get him basically meaning we yet again would trade away more prospect chances for a short term gain. It has a way of catching up to you and frankly I thought the message was clear to Shero by now that he NEEDS a better pool of prospects.

Otherwise we'll be in the very same situation next season except even worse off as we'll have a probably retired guerin and even less prospect wise to be able to select from to sell off.

If they want to make a move in the off season to sign him then I am all for it, but I just hate these damn deadline deals where we're constantly the buyers.

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01-18-2010, 06:28 PM
  #49
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Yeah I had this earlier I just wasn't sure if I was allowed to post it or not seeing as how it was a pay site basically so I'd be giving the information out for free. Good to know that from now on I'm allowed to post that it's straight up ridiculous.
Yah. In general paying ESPN for "insider information" on hockey is like trying to get world financial news from the Travel channel. I mean, you could try to glean the world economic situation based on the kinds of vacation destinations people are picking but it wouldn't exactly be "useful information".

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01-18-2010, 06:36 PM
  #50
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I never doubted that Whitney wouldnt be a great player, but what I do doubt is the team's ability to retain him after this season if we were to get him basically meaning we yet again would trade away more prospect chances for a short term gain. It has a way of catching up to you and frankly I thought the message was clear to Shero by now that he NEEDS a better pool of prospects.

Otherwise we'll be in the very same situation next season except even worse off as we'll have a probably retired guerin and even less prospect wise to be able to select from to sell off.

If they want to make a move in the off season to sign him then I am all for it, but I just hate these damn deadline deals where we're constantly the buyers.
A 2nd, 3rd, or a middle-of-the-road prospect isn't going to kill us, even if we do it every year.

It's worth it to acquire talent at the deadline for an extra push, and it's what contenders do, so you'd better get used to it.

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