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Old
01-18-2010, 01:24 PM
  #26
JDM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Ivanans is an enforcer...what does that have to do with Kovy...? His role is the forecheck and fight...I don't know what kind of stupid point you are making dude.
And Kovy is a goal scorer. You rag on one player for not being able to play a part of the game that isn't in his job description while thinking it perfectly OK that a different player be one dimensional. You makin' no sense mang.

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01-18-2010, 01:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Ivanans is an enforcer...what does that have to do with Kovy...? His role is the forecheck and fight...I don't know what kind of stupid point you are making dude.
You forgot Ivanans most important role... Kings fans whipping boy!

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Old
01-18-2010, 01:29 PM
  #28
Johnny Utah
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Ivanans makes 500K, he isn't asking for 10 million and won't cost major players or prospects.

Kovy has proven nothing except that he is a one dimensional scorer who wants a lot of money.

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01-18-2010, 01:33 PM
  #29
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I think he's asking 10 million of a franchise he knows he has by the nuts and that will likely never win anything. I doubt he starts asking for 10 million if traded or if he hits UFA. I think someone gives him 9, but not 10. And really, he is one of the few players that deserves such a high pay grade because he is one of very few players in the league that can dominate offensively, completely on their own and without support, night in and night out. He's also got marketability on his side since he is such an electrifying player to watch. Joe Thornton may rack up the assists, but you can't draw casuals with some fancy passes. Kovy on the other hand adds a big boost to any market that knows anything about hockey since he is easy to pick out and always making highlight reel plays.

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01-18-2010, 01:47 PM
  #30
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if i'm not mistaken, that one dimensional scorer has dropped more points than any other player except for Joe Thornton since the lockout.

just sayin'

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Old
01-18-2010, 02:04 PM
  #31
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don't worry about the defensive side of Ilya. He plays with the puck on his stick a lot and that tends to keep the puck out of our net and our end. That should be taken into consideration.

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Old
01-18-2010, 03:01 PM
  #32
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Anybody who doesn't want Kovy on their team because of his play KNOWS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOCKEY.

If you want to argue his cap hit could be a problem, then argue away.

But I'm tired of this "one-dimensional" crap. Hello!!! He's first-line winger. How many first line wingers are judged predominantly on their defensive or two-way play? Anybody?

<crickets chirping>

Some of you argue just for the sake of arguing (I know 'cause we smell our own).

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01-18-2010, 03:12 PM
  #33
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I don't know anything...really...

The Atlanta Thrashers have made the playoffs with Kovy once...and got smoked.

Go listen to most hockey people and they will say the same thing...he ain't worth 10 million....I'll take him for 6 as a UFA not Brown, Johnson, plus whoever and 10 million.

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01-18-2010, 03:16 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I don't know anything...really...

The Atlanta Thrashers have made the playoffs with Kovy once...and got smoked.

Go listen to most hockey people and they will say the same thing...he ain't worth 10 million....I'll take him for 6 as a UFA not Brown, Johnson, plus whoever and 10 million.

i get what you're saying, but $6 million in a UFA deal for the second highest scoring forward since the lockout?

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Old
01-18-2010, 03:21 PM
  #35
jimmy1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I don't know anything...really...

The Atlanta Thrashers have made the playoffs with Kovy once...and got smoked.

Go listen to most hockey people and they will say the same thing...he ain't worth 10 million....I'll take him for 6 as a UFA not Brown, Johnson, plus whoever and 10 million.
You're right. I remember that series. It was the New York Rangers versus Ilya Kovalchuk (all by himself, of course). And Kovalchuk got smoked. What a loser!!!

That's what they get for having a one-dimensional Kovy that can't stop a puck to save his life!

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01-18-2010, 03:21 PM
  #36
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He is arguably the best pure goal scorer in the NHL. What does Ovechkin do in the defensive zone that makes him worth $9-10? Nothing. These are the most offensively gifted players in the league. The very best. It is the rarest talent available at the position and, unfortunately for us, the most overvalued and overpayed aspect of the game. Ovy does it with Backstrom and Semin. Kovy does it with nobody. I am sure if Kovy found himself on a line like Ovechkin's he would be putting up the same numbers or more.

The whole what has he accomplished argument falls back to the number one rule of real estate. Location. Location. Location. There are people arguing that Weber is pitiful in the trade and rumours forum because he hasn't accomplished anything. I guarantee you those teams they are fans of would give the moon to have Weber on their team. Can't blame these talented players in failing markets for not winning everything on their own.

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Old
01-18-2010, 03:23 PM
  #37
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I very much doubt it. I don't think they'll make a huge splash, but they do need a winger and I think they'll pick up a vet.
Ray Whitney to Kings. It will happen.

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Old
01-18-2010, 03:26 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
Anybody who doesn't want Kovy on their team because of his play KNOWS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOCKEY.
I don't think anyone is saying they don't want him. I personally am saying I don't want him if he cost us too much in assets and the contract takes up too much CAP space. I'm not a CAP expert but I'd imagine using $9m+ on one player is going to cause some implications down the line. You won't see me complaining if Kovalchuk becomes a King but I don't think it is the great fit that everyone is clamoring about. He is a scoring winger which is something we need but is he worth the cost? Just because he scored a gazillion points doesn't mean he'll make this team win. They will probably win more games off his production but is he going to take this team to the Cup? That is what we all want.

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Old
01-18-2010, 03:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
I don't think anyone is saying they don't want him. I personally am saying I don't want him if he cost us too much in assets and the contract takes up too much CAP space. I'm not a CAP expert but I'd imagine using $9m+ on one player is going to cause some implications down the line. You won't see me complaining if Kovalchuk becomes a King but I don't think it is the great fit that everyone is clamoring about. He is a scoring winger which is something we need but is he worth the cost? Just because he scored a gazillion points doesn't mean he'll make this team win. They will probably win more games off his production but is he going to take this team to the Cup? That is what we all want.
I completely agree with the discussions over what, in total, it would cost us. My only issue is with anyone saying that he's a one-dimensional player and that being a knock against him.

What's his one dimension? Scoring? If that's the case, what dimension(s) is he missing? Defense? Goaltending? OK, fine. Then I revert to my other question, what team is looking for defensive production first and foremost from a first-line left wing?

My point is - 'one-dimensional' is not a valid arguement when considering Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk is a 100% yes for ANYBODY running ANY TEAM, ANYWHERE. The only questionable/debatable point is total cost to acquire.

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Old
01-18-2010, 03:48 PM
  #40
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The team is struggling and striving to pull off wins with their own efforts right now with varying degrees of success. Kopitar and Brown are slowly turning that corner where you see them play the key roles in the outcome of games, but they haven't quite gotten to where they do it on a nightly basis and it becomes an expectation instead of a pleasant surprise.

That's why I have some concerns that if an on-ice presence on the magnitude of Kovalchuk is inserted into the picture that the young players on the team that have been making strides to step up suddenly take a step back for the new Big Man on Campus.

Ideally I think you want Kovalchuk to become a piece of the puzzle that allows the team to get to that next level and not be the ship that everyone tries to pile on to get there. I get a bad feeling though that the team might fall into a pattern of watching and waiting for Kovalchuk to get them wins (becoming spectators instead of participants) and relying on him to save the day instead of trying to make it happen on their own.

I realize that eventually the team is going to need to get players of his caliber to push them over the top competitively, but you have to have some concern that it might be too much too soon in where the team is developmentally. I'll grant that it might just be me, but I see the team as just starting to learn how to stand and walk on their own so having them carried could possibly stunt their growth.

In the short-term it's certainly a win, but long-term...?

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Old
01-18-2010, 03:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by King Doughty8 View Post
Ray Whitney to Kings. It will happen.
Eklund says Pittsburgh so you must be wrong!!!

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Old
01-18-2010, 04:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
That's why I have some concerns that if an on-ice presence on the magnitude of Kovalchuk is inserted into the picture that the young players on the team that have been making strides to step up suddenly take a step back for the new Big Man on Campus.

Ideally I think you want Kovalchuk to become a piece of the puzzle that allows the team to get to that next level and not be the ship that everyone tries to pile on to get there. I get a bad feeling though that the team might fall into a pattern of watching and waiting for Kovalchuk to get them wins (becoming spectators instead of participants) and relying on him to save the day instead of trying to make it happen on their own.
This is the exact issue Lombardi spoke about in his recent interview with Matsuda. He said something along the lines of being worried before about inserting that kind of player into the locker room because of the exact effect you are concerned about. He also followed up though by saying he thinks the group is at or very close to the point where they care enough and have taken ownership of the team to the point where adding a superstar, ego-maniac guy who is looked to or relied upon won't devastate what Kopitar and Brown and the rest of the leadership have built the last year and a half.

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01-18-2010, 04:25 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
This is the exact issue Lombardi spoke about in his recent interview with Matsuda. He said something along the lines of being worried before about inserting that kind of player into the locker room because of the exact effect you are concerned about. He also followed up though by saying he thinks the group is at or very close to the point where they care enough and have taken ownership of the team to the point where adding a superstar, ego-maniac guy who is looked to or relied upon won't devastate what Kopitar and Brown and the rest of the leadership have built the last year and a half.

he's been talking about that "crutch" player for a while now... and it really gained momentum after he addressed the answers that both Brown and Kopitar gave to Hammond about what the team needed.

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Old
01-18-2010, 04:39 PM
  #44
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he's been talking about that "crutch" player for a while now... and it really gained momentum after he addressed the answers that both Brown and Kopitar gave to Hammond about what the team needed.
Yes he has. This is the quote I was referring to, where he says that his concerns about that are lessening.

Quote:
“What I see in that room, I’m starting to see that culture, and it’s come a little faster than I thought,” Lombardi noted. “Now I think maybe I can take a little of that risk that I couldn’t take before. So to get the right guy in there—because I’m starting to feel that those guys really care and they’re not going to allow someone to come in and change what they’re starting to care about. So we’re starting to get to that point.”
http://frozenroyalty.net/2010/01/12/...sh-may-be-now/

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01-18-2010, 05:55 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
Anybody who doesn't want Kovy on their team because of his play KNOWS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOCKEY.

If you want to argue his cap hit could be a problem, then argue away.

But I'm tired of this "one-dimensional" crap. Hello!!! He's first-line winger. How many first line wingers are judged predominantly on their defensive or two-way play? Anybody?

<crickets chirping>

Some of you argue just for the sake of arguing (I know 'cause we smell our own).
Terry Murray says hello.

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01-18-2010, 06:40 PM
  #46
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Eric Duhatchek has LA as the likely destination and says it will be a Pronger type deal. 2 players and 2 picks.

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Old
01-18-2010, 06:43 PM
  #47
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Eric Duhatchek has LA as the likely destination and says it will be a Pronger type deal. 2 players and 2 picks.
Who in the heck is Eric Duhatchek?

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Old
01-18-2010, 06:53 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frolovfan View Post
Who in the heck is Eric Duhatchek?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Eric+Duhatchek


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Old
01-18-2010, 06:59 PM
  #49
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Sign him to a ridiculous Hossa like contract.

10M 10M 10M 10M 10M 9.5M 9.5M 5M 1.25M 1.25M .750M .750M

6.5M CAP hit.

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Old
01-18-2010, 07:03 PM
  #50
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Pronger and Dingle for Lupul, Sbisa, two first rounders and futures...

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