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Old
01-14-2010, 11:50 AM
  #101
GoneFullHolmgren
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Now people are saying its because of the schedule?
REALLY?
Gotta love my fellow Flyer fans sometimes.
The team is palying really good hockey right now. I dont care who they have had on their schedule. Every team has the same schedule.
Laviolette is a good coach. No one ever said he was Jesus.

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01-14-2010, 12:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
Now people are saying its because of the schedule?
REALLY?
Gotta love my fellow Flyer fans sometimes.
The team is palying really good hockey right now. I dont care who they have had on their schedule. Every team has the same schedule.
Laviolette is a good coach. No one ever said he was Jesus.
They are playing great hockey. I am really interested to see what they do against the caps though. Id imagine this may be another 6- 5 game.

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01-14-2010, 12:28 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
Now people are saying its because of the schedule?
REALLY?
Gotta love my fellow Flyer fans sometimes.
The team is palying really good hockey right now. I dont care who they have had on their schedule. Every team has the same schedule.
Laviolette is a good coach. No one ever said he was Jesus.
The team is absolutely playing better hockey, but the schedule is a massive contributing factor...both to our success, and Leighton's, IMO. We've gotten a run of piss poor offensive teams, and/or clubs going through struggles (Pens).

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01-14-2010, 01:00 PM
  #104
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Yeah, I won't be impressed until we beat Penguins - Caps - Blackhawks - Canucks - Devils in that order, with OKT playing 30 minutes a night and our goalie wearing 1970s gear.

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01-14-2010, 01:21 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Yeah, I won't be impressed until we beat Penguins - Caps - Blackhawks - Canucks - Devils in that order, with OKT playing 30 minutes a night and our goalie wearing 1970s gear.
By at least 4 goals in every game.

**** those 2-3 goal wins.

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01-15-2010, 02:24 PM
  #106
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Hmmmm good points. Neither Betts nor Powe (nor Gagne at this point) look like players of massive importance but it is a long long way down from them to the AHL.
Um, Gagne does have a ppg since his return and stellar defensive play, how is that not massively important???

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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Having Leighton leading this team to victory is like watching an ABC After-School Special. It's mind-boggling that Leighton has backstopped the team to an 8-1-1 record. I remember seeing posts at the beginning of the year saying that if Emery is on the shelf for any extended period of time and the Flyers have to lean on Boucher, they will be toast. Imagine if we foresaw that Emery and Boucher went on the DL and Holmgren picked up Michael Lay-Down off waivers to be the first stringer. There would have been a suicide watch!
As solid as Leighton has played, I dont think it really would have mattered who the goalie was over this span.....He was getting the good bounces and they have been limiting clearing the glaring rebounds Leighton has been leaving.

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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but one of the things I've noticed is a change in attitude on the ice. There seems to be a bit of snarl in everyone's game now and players know specifically what their role is. Not only that, but it seems that every line is contributing one way or another and they're making it incredibly tough to defend them. Kudos to Laviolette for instilling discipline while making everyone accountable for their play. You can see it on the ice. It's just a complete 180 from where they were just a month ago......
Agreed 100%!

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As you all know, I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt and have never said anything untoward about anyone.

However, that being said, are we now able to, in a cold and calculating and objective sense, call JXC a *********?
LOL! He is never going to be man enough to admit he was wrong, you know that

This is simple guys, its a combination of things:

1) Health - People CANNOT discount the impact Gagne has on this team, and the role that Betts and Powe play.
2) System - They look like an actual team now rather than a bunch of guys going out there playing pond hockey. I can imagine this will only get better.
3) SP teams have shown up again.
4) Luck

I dont care who the heck we have been playing, that doesnt matter....I am sure we lost to a bunch of teams we shouldnt have during December that offset the supposed bad teams we are beating. Fact of the matter is they look like an actual hockey team now....something that wasnt happening even in some of the wins with Stevens.

I agree with Jester and others in that the defensive side still needs a little work, but I think that will come around as well. They are too talented not to.

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01-17-2010, 12:12 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Step 1: Flyers rip and tear and slash and burn and look like Cup contenders

Step 2: Flyers flounder and slump and drag and look all yucky and stuff

Step 3: Flyers bounce back and play great hockey

I really think the intellectual value of this discussion would be maximized if none of us pretended that we haven't seen this before.

We have.
Two Springs ago. The Flyers and Senators were mired in ugly slumps. The Senators fired John Paddock. The haters here went wild.

"Come on Holmer! Pull the trigger!!" they chorused.

The Chorus of Hope turned to Howling Indignation when Stevens stayed.

Then Ottawa continued their collapse, the Flyers finished strongly, beat Washington in the first round in 7 games, took out Montreal in 5, went on to the Conference Finals, and coaching wasn't mentioned again until they got overrun by the Penguins.
Let's not pretend we haven't seen this before.

We have.

-----

That being said, they do look quite impressive right now. I guess I'll have to play The Jester here and say that this streak has come versus the Little Sisters of the Poor and the teams who Aren't Exactly World Beaters, but they do look much much more energtic and "cohesive". Very impressive.
The best point. Sure it's the conditioning, and effort, and discipline, etc. But, more than anything else, it's the men in the ice. Their heart, drive, and desire. As far as Laviolette being some savior, if it wasn't for the lack of their heart, drive, and desire, he wouldn't even be the coach right now. Is anybody actually suggesting that these "professionals" don't know the condition they need to be in? Or the fact that they need to put forth effort? Or they need to be taught discipline? This isn't high school or college hockey, these guys are professionals. What they were lacking is HEART!

When the Flyers continued their losing upon Laviolette's arrival, he only needed to drive one point home during any practice and it should have been as easy as this. "You boys already got John fired. That didn't work, you're still pathetic. What's next? I'll tell you now, I'm not going anywhere. You know what's next? Some of you are going to wake-up to a phone call asking you for your statement after you've been traded to Edmonton! Or Carolina, or Toronto. I'm sure we can find somebody on those teams who would love the chance to come here and play for what should be a Stanley Cup contender."

Then just go player by player asking them if they want to wake-up tomorrow an Edmonton Oiler.

When you have a team that is this good, EVERYTHING, from conditioning, to effort, to discipline, comes down to heart and pride, or lack thereof.

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01-17-2010, 12:27 PM
  #108
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Anyone that thought this team looked like a Cup Contender at the outset of the year wasn't paying attention. As I argued with folks on here, we were getting an inordinate % of our offense from the PP, which was performing at an unsustainable pace. When the PP began to go south and expose our even strength play problems the house of cards tumbled down...

Generally speaking, special teams separate the boys from the men in the NHL. A deadly PP, and strong PK can carry you very far (this is a constant in the playoffs, for example). However, if you cannot control play at even strength...you're going to have struggles, and potentially severe ones at that.

Stevens, as said, lost his job because the special teams units went down the crapper on him. That wasn't his fault, he outsourced those units to his subordinates. However, it was his fault that his team wasn't even remotely capable of weathering the storm when they were having special teams troubles. He never instituted discipline on this team, so they kept taking minors despite the fact that their PK unit kept getting scored on...and he never cultivated a strong even strength game that provided defensive control with offensive punch.

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01-17-2010, 12:36 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevoice View Post
Is anybody actually suggesting that these "professionals" don't know the condition they need to be in? Or the fact that they need to put forth effort? Or they need to be taught discipline? This isn't high school or college hockey, these guys are professionals.
Conditioning, discipline, and putting forth 60 minutes of solid effort are problems with many teams every single season. As we see constantly with the NFL and NBA, "professional" is often merely an economic distinction with no other bearing in terms of discipline or professionalism.

Sure, there has been a lack of heart at times over the last several years. But if you don't think that the best coaches/GMs throughout the league don't understand that there is a constant battle to keep conditioning, discipline, and effort at 100%, then I guess you just don't pay attention to teams around the league.

As soon as the special teams got cold, all of the issues with Stevens' system were exposed to even those trying to be purposefully blind to them. Stevens let the team get weak and undisciplined. They didn't magically get heart when Laviolette arrived. They magically got held accountable by a discipline oriented coach. And it took a long damn time. Even though many of us said this right after the firing, in hindsight it is absolutely clear that Stevens should have been fired before training camp. If that happens the Flyers are in a much better position right now.

It's about leadership. It doesn't matter if its professional athletes, professional soldiers, or professional businessmen. Unguided talent will never reach its potential. And this team was lacking guidance from a number of places, not just coach, for a long time.

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01-17-2010, 12:46 PM
  #110
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Should also be noted that there's being in good condition...and there's being in really good condition. All of these guys are in good condition when compared to your average joe schmoe athletic dude that works out...if they weren't, they would not be able to even remotely compete at this level.

Then there are varying degrees of fitness within the professional ranks, both due to the individual player and what the team mandates. Some of that comes from the system. Laviolette's approach has them skating a LOT more than they were under Stevens. Forwards are forechecking deep in the offensive zone and then coming back. Defensemen are more active coming up the wall, which leads to a lot more skating coming back.

So, you have to be careful in castigating the fitness level under Stevens too much...some of the uptick in fitness is purely of necessity when being as aggressive as this team is now.

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01-17-2010, 01:17 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Conditioning, discipline, and putting forth 60 minutes of solid effort are problems with many teams every single season. As we see constantly with the NFL and NBA, "professional" is often merely an economic distinction with no other bearing in terms of discipline or professionalism.

Sure, there has been a lack of heart at times over the last several years. But if you don't think that the best coaches/GMs throughout the league don't understand that there is a constant battle to keep conditioning, discipline, and effort at 100%, then I guess you just don't pay attention to teams around the league.

As soon as the special teams got cold, all of the issues with Stevens' system were exposed to even those trying to be purposefully blind to them. Stevens let the team get weak and undisciplined. They didn't magically get heart when Laviolette arrived. They magically got held accountable by a discipline oriented coach. And it took a long damn time. Even though many of us said this right after the firing, in hindsight it is absolutely clear that Stevens should have been fired before training camp. If that happens the Flyers are in a much better position right now.

It's about leadership. It doesn't matter if its professional athletes, professional soldiers, or professional businessmen. Unguided talent will never reach its potential. And this team was lacking guidance from a number of places, not just coach, for a long time.
Well put. After I posted my reply I started thinking of some of the great teams and the great coaches who coached them. Good point. You took it further than the conditioning, effort, and discipline, or the "buying into his system" bullet points. Thanks.

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01-17-2010, 01:20 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Should also be noted that there's being in good condition...and there's being in really good condition. All of these guys are in good condition when compared to your average joe schmoe athletic dude that works out...if they weren't, they would not be able to even remotely compete at this level.

Then there are varying degrees of fitness within the professional ranks, both due to the individual player and what the team mandates. Some of that comes from the system. Laviolette's approach has them skating a LOT more than they were under Stevens. Forwards are forechecking deep in the offensive zone and then coming back. Defensemen are more active coming up the wall, which leads to a lot more skating coming back.

So, you have to be careful in castigating the fitness level under Stevens too much...some of the uptick in fitness is purely of necessity when being as aggressive as this team is now.
They all better hit the treadmill over the olympic break. It is weird how looks wise hockey players arent as in shape as most other athletes, save baseball pitchers. Guys like Stevens and Rod are praised for their jackedness but really this should be the standard.

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01-17-2010, 01:29 PM
  #113
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They all better hit the treadmill over the olympic break. It is weird how looks wise hockey players arent as in shape as most other athletes, save baseball pitchers. Guys like Stevens and Rod are praised for their jackedness but really this should be the standard.
I would imagine they will be running some very hard practices over the Olympic break...because they can. It's going to essentially be Laviolette's training camp.

Rod is a freak of nature...and that's independent of hockey.

I'm not sure why you think hockey players are at a lower fitness level than other athletes. Of major team sports, these guys are probably only behind soccer and basketball as far as cardio fitness on average.

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01-17-2010, 01:50 PM
  #114
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Bound to happen. This team has too much talent to play like that all season.

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01-17-2010, 08:50 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I would imagine they will be running some very hard practices over the Olympic break...because they can. It's going to essentially be Laviolette's training camp.
I thought most of the players would disperse over the Olympic break. I read somewhere that the teams can't force them to practice over this time, I'm not sure where I read that, though.

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01-18-2010, 09:40 AM
  #116
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I thought most of the players would disperse over the Olympic break. I read somewhere that the teams can't force them to practice over this time, I'm not sure where I read that, though.
If such a rule exists...that sucks. I know they were running practices last time...and I can't imagine the NHL would agree to the guys not going having that entire time off to do **** all.

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01-18-2010, 10:36 AM
  #117
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If such a rule exists...that sucks. I know they were running practices last time...and I can't imagine the NHL would agree to the guys not going having that entire time off to do **** all.
Yeah, the NHL doesn't really want players to even go to the Olympics any more so it would be weird if it turned it into one big vacation. But, who knows? I'm sure that if there were optional skates the 3rd and 4th lines would show up. Ya know, the guys who need it the least...

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01-18-2010, 10:53 AM
  #118
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Yeah, the NHL doesn't really want players to even go to the Olympics any more so it would be weird if it turned it into one big vacation. But, who knows? I'm sure that if there were optional skates the 3rd and 4th lines would show up. Ya know, the guys who need it the least...
I mean, I imagine teams would give the guys a short break (long weekend) type of thing...but you can run much harder and extensive practices when you don't have games going on all the time...so real advantage there--especially for us.

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01-18-2010, 11:02 AM
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from what ive seen locker rooms will be closed except for the first and last 5 days of the olympis. so its basicaly two opportunities to run mini camps with a week off in between. should be a great opportunity for laviolette to put a stamp on the team.

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01-18-2010, 11:16 AM
  #120
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from what ive seen locker rooms will be closed except for the first and last 5 days of the olympis. so its basicaly two opportunities to run mini camps with a week off in between. should be a great opportunity for laviolette to put a stamp on the team.
So, a long weekend. The Olympics are only two weeks. We're off Feb 13 to Mar 2nd. Break begins on the 15th, and ends March 1st.

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01-19-2010, 12:22 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Conditioning, discipline, and putting forth 60 minutes of solid effort are problems with many teams every single season. As we see constantly with the NFL and NBA, "professional" is often merely an economic distinction with no other bearing in terms of discipline or professionalism.

Sure, there has been a lack of heart at times over the last several years. But if you don't think that the best coaches/GMs throughout the league don't understand that there is a constant battle to keep conditioning, discipline, and effort at 100%, then I guess you just don't pay attention to teams around the league.

As soon as the special teams got cold, all of the issues with Stevens' system were exposed to even those trying to be purposefully blind to them. Stevens let the team get weak and undisciplined. They didn't magically get heart when Laviolette arrived. They magically got held accountable by a discipline oriented coach. And it took a long damn time. Even though many of us said this right after the firing, in hindsight it is absolutely clear that Stevens should have been fired before training camp. If that happens the Flyers are in a much better position right now.

It's about leadership. It doesn't matter if its professional athletes, professional soldiers, or professional businessmen. Unguided talent will never reach its potential. And this team was lacking guidance from a number of places, not just coach, for a long time.
Your last statement is awesome! Mind talking to my boss for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I would imagine they will be running some very hard practices over the Olympic break...because they can. It's going to essentially be Laviolette's training camp.

Rod is a freak of nature...and that's independent of hockey.

I'm not sure why you think hockey players are at a lower fitness level than other athletes. Of major team sports, these guys are probably only behind soccer and basketball as far as cardio fitness on average.
Actually I think they are pretty even with basketball players.....Soccer players are another level though.

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01-19-2010, 12:26 PM
  #122
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Actually I think they are pretty even with basketball players.....Soccer players are another level though.
A starting basketball player is at a MUCH higher level of cardio fitness than these guys. They are running and exerting themselves continuously for ~40 minutes. I mean, I'm sure there are guys in the NHL who are at similar fitness levels...but a big factor working against them is the body shape for the two sports. It's tough to have the stamina required to play basketball at a high level if you're built for playing a physical sport like hockey.

There's a reason basketball and soccer players are built the way they are...they spend a lot more time running.

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01-19-2010, 12:53 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
A starting basketball player is at a MUCH higher level of cardio fitness than these guys. They are running and exerting themselves continuously for ~40 minutes. I mean, I'm sure there are guys in the NHL who are at similar fitness levels...but a big factor working against them is the body shape for the two sports. It's tough to have the stamina required to play basketball at a high level if you're built for playing a physical sport like hockey.

There's a reason basketball and soccer players are built the way they are...they spend a lot more time running.
Skating is unnatural and you must have power. North American hockey is all acceleration. The box is too small and the tempo must be high, so you must get from 0 to 60 as fast as you can. Acceleration takes a lot out of you. I do not think it has anything to do with your built there are plenty of basketball players that are build like tanks and heavy.

Any fool can run long distance with some practice, even run at high tempo. You can not compare those two.

Back to the topic: I think we would get a least a point or maybe even a win against Washington if Emery was half decent but he sucked. Hopefully he is better tonight. He is still #1 goaltender on this team.


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01-19-2010, 01:02 PM
  #124
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I honestly did not expect to win the Washington game.
They are almost unbeatable at home, You just know that Emery had to be rusty and by the sounds of it he was. A goalie who hasnt played in 2 months going against one of the best offenses in the NHL on their home ice is not exactly a recipe for success.
Hopefully we can get some better fortune at home starting tonight. This is a team the Flyers should beat. Mason has been struggling and Garon I dont care what anyone says sucks.

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01-19-2010, 01:29 PM
  #125
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Any fool can run long distance with some practice, even run at high tempo. You can not compare those two.
Not Mike York.

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