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Old
01-19-2010, 02:46 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Sather took a chance, Laidlaw. He took a chance that Redden, who for much of his career seemed to be a fundamentally sound player with decent skill, just needed a change of scenery as a result of some of the personal issues that surrounded him the past two seasons with Ottawa. Seems as though Sather was wrong.
I'm all for taking a chance on guys. But when you give out 6 years and huge bucks, you need to have a sure thing.

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01-19-2010, 02:50 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Sather took a chance, Laidlaw. He took a chance that Redden, who for much of his career seemed to be a fundamentally sound player with decent skill, just needed a change of scenery as a result of some of the personal issues that surrounded him the past two seasons with Ottawa. Seems as though Sather was wrong.
Yeah, but he is saying that you should only take an expensive risk if it is for a 1-2 year contract. The Redden contract wouldn't have been so horrible if it wasnt for 6 years.

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01-19-2010, 02:53 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Sather took a chance, Laidlaw. He took a chance that Redden, who for much of his career seemed to be a fundamentally sound player with decent skill, just needed a change of scenery as a result of some of the personal issues that surrounded him the past two seasons with Ottawa. Seems as though Sather was wrong.
The thing that gets me though Fletch is that if you are gonna take a chance on a guy turning around a 2 year decline you can't give him a 6 year deal. The term on the contract is what has bothered me from Day 1. If you wanna pay him 6.5 mill for 1 year and see if his game turns around then I am all for it. Since there is very little long term risk involved. If another team is bidding against you and the only way you can get the guy is by giving him 5-6 years then you let the other team have him.

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01-19-2010, 03:03 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Sather took a chance, Laidlaw. He took a chance that Redden, who for much of his career seemed to be a fundamentally sound player with decent skill, just needed a change of scenery as a result of some of the personal issues that surrounded him the past two seasons with Ottawa. Seems as though Sather was wrong.
Its one thing to take a calculated chance with significant upside. The Gaborik deal was one of that nature and has been working out so far.

Is a different thing to take a chance on somebody like Redden. I mean, who couldnt have foreseen this coming? I remember being in utter shock when I learned about the terms we gave him...You could at least make some sort of valid argument in favor of the Drury, Gomez, and Rozsival signings. There was absolutely no reason to throw that kind of money at such a clear-cut case of regression.

Its only going to get worse, and more ugly for Wade as his Ranger career goes on....we'll see how long that is.

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01-19-2010, 03:05 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Sather took a chance, Laidlaw. He took a chance that Redden, who for much of his career seemed to be a fundamentally sound player with decent skill, just needed a change of scenery as a result of some of the personal issues that surrounded him the past two seasons with Ottawa. Seems as though Sather was wrong.
You take a chance on a guy with a 1 year contract. If the change of scenery works, then give him another 5 years.

Even if you overpay for the 1 year, that's fine. A 1 year f-up isn't a big deal. (though we seem to have f-ups every year)

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01-19-2010, 03:13 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
What is are your argument in this?

Your not saying that because Redden may be the slowest dman on our team, a team of average dman, that would make him one of the slowest in the league are you?
You're not putting words in my mouth. The debate is not whether he is the slowest in the league. Its whether he is slow. Honestly, I cant see how you could describe Redden as anything but slow.

Why has his game been on the decline? He lost his speed. Its obvious. Jason Strudwick might be faster than him.

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01-19-2010, 03:16 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Scooter17 View Post
Yeah, but he is saying that you should only take an expensive risk if it is for a 1-2 year contract. The Redden contract wouldn't have been so horrible if it wasnt for 6 years.
Because top notch free agents love 1-2 year contracts....

and if Redden's contract were for 2 years at $6.5 million, it would still be horrible (obviously not to the same extent).

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01-19-2010, 03:23 PM
  #183
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Singn', and all...

I don't disagree that it was a bad risk to take, and that risks generally aren't 6 year risks. I was one of the biggest anti-Redden guys out there, and remain. I'm just stating what Sather's mindset was at the time. He loves his projects and thinks he's smarter than everyone else. He's turned out a couple gems over his career, and this one certainly was quite a big bust; or at least I believe that to be the case.

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01-19-2010, 03:28 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Because top notch free agents love 1-2 year contracts....

and if Redden's contract were for 2 years at $6.5 million, it would still be horrible (obviously not to the same extent).
If it were a 2 year contract this thread wouldn't exist.

It'd be "thank god he's gone after this year"

And he was NOT a top notch free agent, he just came off of 2 bad years

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01-19-2010, 03:29 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
You're not putting words in my mouth. The debate is not whether he is the slowest in the league. Its whether he is slow. Honestly, I cant see how you could describe Redden as anything but slow.

Why has his game been on the decline? He lost his speed. Its obvious. Jason Strudwick might be faster than him.
That should be the debate if you want to get into just how slow he really is. Id estimate that he'd lose a race to at least 80% of NHL'ers, possibly more.

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01-19-2010, 03:35 PM
  #186
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He was obviously too slow even then in 06-07, which is why it was so obvious that this was a terrible idea from the start. As bad as Gomez and Drury were, and those two were pretty obvious from the beginning too, this one surpassed those. What a monumental blunder. How can someone make such a huge mistake and still have their job?

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01-19-2010, 03:58 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That should be the debate if you want to get into just how slow he really is. Id estimate that he'd lose a race to at least 80% of NHL'ers, possibly more.
If he is so slow, how come players don't race around him with ease? Or beat him out on icings?

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01-19-2010, 04:01 PM
  #188
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I think what people fail to realize is redden's a serviceable #5/6 defenseman.

It's his contract & the cap that makes him unbearable.

If he was being paid 1 - 2 million, noone would talk about him, ever. And if there was no cap.. noone would care either, it'd just be an overpaid player by a team who can afford to blow money.

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01-19-2010, 04:06 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
If he is so slow, how come players don't race around him with ease? Or beat him out on icings?
Uh...they do, most of the time. Depending on the player of course, but pretty much any decent top-6 winger in the league gets by him with ease. You see what Perron did to him on the penalty that led to the first St. Louis goal?

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01-19-2010, 04:08 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Uh...they do, most of the time. Depending on the player of course, but pretty much any decent top-6 winger in the league gets by him with ease. You see what Perron did to him on the penalty that led to the first St. Louis goal?
Ok, its not worth arguing this with you with statements like that.

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01-19-2010, 04:12 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Sather took a chance, Laidlaw. He took a chance that Redden, who for much of his career seemed to be a fundamentally sound player with decent skill, just needed a change of scenery as a result of some of the personal issues that surrounded him the past two seasons with Ottawa. Seems as though Sather was wrong.

Once Chara left Ottawa...Reddens game went as well. Chara helped make up for Reddens mistakes. About every GM knew that and that is why he was offered around 3 million during FA until Sather blew him away with a crazy deal. Personal issues or not, Chara was the reason why Redden looked better than he was.


With that said Redden did play well for you guys in the playoffs IMO. He has had some solid games this year. Consistency is the issue.

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01-19-2010, 04:14 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by SUNRISE27EMTK View Post
Once Chara left Ottawa...Reddens game went as well. Chara helped make up for Reddens mistakes. About every GM knew that and that is why he was offered around 3 million during FA until Sather blew him away with a crazy deal. Personal issues or not, Chara was the reason why Redden looked better than he was.


With that said Redden did play well for you guys in the playoffs IMO. He has had some solid games this year. Consistency is the issue.
Not trying to attack you but can you give some sources where you found this.

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01-19-2010, 04:17 PM
  #193
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i'm pretty sure redden had the exact same offers from dallas and columbus that he got from sather. he chose the rangers.

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01-19-2010, 04:46 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Ok, its not worth arguing this with you with statements like that.
On the rush, Redden consistently gets beaten by most offensive-minded forwards in this league. Not surprising, since those positions are filled, with few exceptions, by fast skaters these days. That tends to make Redden's lack of speed stand out all the more.

Against the league's best forwards, it's like watching a Rascal and a bunch of F1 cars.

His lack of speed is the single biggest reason why his stature in the league has dropped so greatly as of the lockout. He didn't need to be that fast before the rules changed, neither in his own zone, or in the other team's.

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01-19-2010, 04:48 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Uh...they do, most of the time. Depending on the player of course, but pretty much any decent top-6 winger in the league gets by him with ease. You see what Perron did to him on the penalty that led to the first St. Louis goal?
Umm...I'm pretty sure you're also describing Girardi.

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01-19-2010, 04:49 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Uh...they do, most of the time. Depending on the player of course, but pretty much any decent top-6 winger in the league gets by him with ease. You see what Perron did to him on the penalty that led to the first St. Louis goal?

Redden does not get beat on a 1-on-1 rush hardly ever. The guy is still very good positionally and is fast enough to keep up with most skaters in the league.

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01-19-2010, 04:50 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRISE27EMTK View Post
Once Chara left Ottawa...Reddens game went as well. Chara helped make up for Reddens mistakes. About every GM knew that and that is why he was offered around 3 million during FA until Sather blew him away with a crazy deal. Personal issues or not, Chara was the reason why Redden looked better than he was.


With that said Redden did play well for you guys in the playoffs IMO. He has had some solid games this year. Consistency is the issue.

Both Dallas and Columbus were offering him similar contracts.

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01-19-2010, 05:00 PM
  #198
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Umm...I'm pretty sure you're also describing Girardi.
And? I'm hardly the biggest Girardi fan. He should be moved at the deadline, he's nothing special. But this isn't about Girardi.

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Redden does not get beat on a 1-on-1 rush hardly ever. The guy is still very good positionally and is fast enough to keep up with most skaters in the league.
Who cares how good you are positionally when you're not able to be at the right spot in the right moment to make the play? Lack of speed is by far the single biggest factor in the demise of Redden. It effects him in every facet of the sport, and in a league where speed is of the utmost importance, it's why having him on your team at any price simply makes no sense. Coupled with his refusal to show physicality, his one fight a season aside, he's just a very inefficient player.

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01-19-2010, 05:16 PM
  #199
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If he is so slow, how come players don't race around him with ease? Or beat him out on icings?
Positioning and experience, pretty much.

The guy has 14 seasons in the league. That level of experience is really what keeps him from being a complete embarassment out there.

If he was a rookie, possessing the deteriorated skills he brings to the rink every night now, he'd never be an NHL regular. Never.

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01-19-2010, 05:18 PM
  #200
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Redden is incapable of quarterbacking a powerplay. He is also incapable taking the body/making his presence felt/delivering big game-changing hits/etc.

Even if he played mistake free this would result in a 3-4 million dollar #3 or #4 dman.
Since he does not play mistake free he is about a 2.5 million dollar #5 on a good team.

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