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Old
01-20-2010, 04:01 PM
  #51
jimmy1100
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SFkingshomer: What is it with people trying to argue that the two MOST ELITE goal scorers in the league don't play sound defense. Who here wants an elite goal scorer to play defense? I want an elite goal scorer to score goals, but I might not know what I'm talking about.

Secondly, check out www.capgeek.com and use the 2010-2011 calculator to see what next year's roster would look like and the cap hit associated with it.

Do a little playing around and you'll see that we have quite a bit of room to add a big $ player without dismantling the team.

My sample this morning:

Kopitar
Smyth
Handzus
Stoll
Williams
Brown
Moller
Simmonds
Segal
*Richardson (I assumed a generous salary increase to $750,000)
*Parse (I assumed a generous salary increase to $750,000)
Doughty
Scuderi
Greene
Johnson
Martinez
Drewskie
Harrold
Quick
Ersberg

Total (including buyouts and everything else) : $47,596,666

That leaves roughly $12.4 million for 3 roster spaces. We CAN afford Kovalchuk!

Hell, imagine (unlikely, hence use of the word IMAGINE) Kovy @ 8m + Frolov @ $4m. How ******* awesome would that be?

If you take it a step further and look at when contracts expire, you will see some of the genious Lombardi has used in lining up when contracts expire and when younger guys need new contracts.

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Old
01-20-2010, 04:06 PM
  #52
jimmy1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Am I the only one who really wouldn't mind giving up a deal built around Schenn for Kovy?

The more I think about it, the less 'untouchable' I consider Schenn if we are talking about the kind of talent a Kovy brings to the table.
I agree with you here. Many may think I'm crazy, but I'd deal Schenn + Teubert + 2010 2nd + 2011 1st for a signed Kovalchuk.

(Though I'm sure Atlanta requires at least 1 roster player be involved in the deal)

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Old
01-20-2010, 04:12 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
I agree with you here. Many may think I'm crazy, but I'd deal Schenn + Teubert + 2010 2nd + 2011 1st for a signed Kovalchuk.

(Though I'm sure Atlanta requires at least 1 roster player be involved in the deal)
You would absolutely have to make that deal, but i honestly think atlanta would want some proven NHL talent coming there way.

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01-20-2010, 04:13 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
I agree with you here. Many may think I'm crazy, but I'd deal Schenn + Teubert + 2010 2nd + 2011 1st for a signed Kovalchuk.

(Though I'm sure Atlanta requires at least 1 roster player be involved in the deal)
Well yeah ofcourse. Schenn probably couldn't be the marquee player coming from LA, but I'd prefer trading Schenn + roster player than trading 2 roster players... then again, I'd prefer trading 2 1st rounders than trading Schenn + a 1st. It all depends on what Atlanta wants.

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Old
01-20-2010, 04:16 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Am I the only one who really wouldn't mind giving up a deal built around Schenn for Kovy?
Yeah but would Atlanta be cool with that? Probably not. All indications are they are going to want two roster players. You can leave Frolov out of that mix because he is in the same position as Kovalchuk and unlikely to re-sign there.

So who are they going to give up from the roster? Stoll? Ok but then what do we do about a 2nd line center when Handzus' contract is up? Who else can they part with from the roster that Atlanta would actually want without hurting the team in the short term?

The more and more you put these scenarios together, the more evident it becomes to me that the Kings probably aren't willing to part with what it will take to get him here and conversely, Atlanta probably isn't interested in what the KIngs would be offereing.

That being said, if they'd take some prospects and high draft picks then there is a slight possibility that DL might pony up. I still highly doubt it. The guy has barely (only the O'Sullivan trade comes to mind) traded any of his draft picks or top prospects since becoming the Kings GM.

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01-20-2010, 04:18 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Why would ATL want UFA-to-be Frolov? Why would Frolov re-sign in ATL?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
...I too would like to see Fro be included in the trade but I don't know why ATL would want him unless, he was going to take Kovy's place on the russian line which is a possibility I suppose.
Actually, they would probably "demand" Frolov be part of the deal. Keep in mind this is not a normal rental situation. Atlanta is 1 point out of a playoff spot -- not a position to be selling off your best player for picks and prospects. Still, I think he goes nowhere. If they don't get at least a very good roster player back what is the message to the fans about playing to win? He likes Atlanta and they probably stand a reasonable chance of re-signing him anyway. Other teams won't pay him that much more -- IMO.

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Old
01-20-2010, 04:19 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by one2gamble View Post
Serious question, with the assets you guys have why wouldnt you just wait until hes a ufa unless he comes in at a steal.
If Kovy becomes a UFA, there's no guarantee that he'll sign with us. If anything, we'll probably lose out on a bidding war with half the league.

We went through a similar situation with Gaborik last year thinking that we can sign him during this offseason. And of course, that didn't quite pan out as planned.

Yeah, we're giving up some assets but we can give a few assets and still remain competitive.

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01-20-2010, 04:20 PM
  #58
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I think i might have said this in another post but

LA:
Kov

Atl:
Stoll
Parse or Moller
Hickey
1st

Kovalchuk must be signed though

Kovulchuk Kopi Simmonds
Smyth Richardson Brown
Fro Handzus Parse / Moller (whoever isnt traded

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01-20-2010, 04:22 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
That being said, if they'd take some prospects and high draft picks then there is a slight possibility that DL might pony up. I still highly doubt it. The guy has barely (only the O'Sullivan trade comes to mind) traded any of his draft picks or top prospects since becoming the Kings GM.
True, but you also have to consider it is clear the philosophy is shifting on how to handle the current team. He has already said he is no longer interested in hoarding draft picks. He outright said he won't trade Frolov for picks because this year, that doesn't help the team, whereas a year or two ago, it was the right thing to do. He has also always said the purpose of hoarding picks and prospects was to have assets to make deals with later on down the line. The real question is not whether Dean is capable or willing to trade off high picks and top prospects, but rather how far down the line is the team? That is why I said how interested he is in trading for Kovy will depend on how the team does the rest of the year.

DL is not the type of GM to bail out his team with a big move because they are sucking. That goes against everything he is building in terms of culture. THAT is the kind of move everyone associates acquiring Kovalchuk with, but it doesn't have to be that way and it 100% depends on the teams performance this year. There is a fundamental difference in trading those assets when the team in still struggling to find and identity and trading those assets to acquire a superstar for a team that in all likelihood will make the playoffs without said superstar.

So yeah, I actually think the team's performance up until the deadline will have more to do with DL's willingness to part with assets than what those assets are themselves.

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01-20-2010, 04:25 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Am I the only one who really wouldn't mind giving up a deal built around Schenn for Kovy?

The more I think about it, the less 'untouchable' I consider Schenn if we are talking about the kind of talent a Kovy brings to the table.
I wouldn't say he's untouchable but I do think he can be the next Brenden Morrow or even Messier type of player and that makes it tough to let him go.

However, with Zeus and most likely Stoll not going anywhere, we don't really have room for Schenn unless, he can play one of the wing slots.

I'd do a Schenn, Fro, Teubert and 1st.

This way, we're basically replacing Fro with Kovy and not losing anyone else on our current roster.

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Old
01-20-2010, 04:28 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
I agree with you here. Many may think I'm crazy, but I'd deal Schenn + Teubert + 2010 2nd + 2011 1st for a signed Kovalchuk.

(Though I'm sure Atlanta requires at least 1 roster player be involved in the deal)
That is not nearly enough salary going to ATL, you have to add more salary.

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Old
01-20-2010, 04:29 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I'd do a Schenn, Fro, Teubert and 1st.
I'd do that.

I'm also more and more willing to part with Moller in a deal like this.

I LOVE Oscar, and I want to watch him develop into the next dynamic, 30-40 goal scoring, leading Swede winger on this team, which I am confident he will become. He has too much charisma, zest, talent, heart, grit and anything else you can think of to not overcome his size. If Cammy can do it just kidding... lets not go there.

But seriously, Moller might be very enticing to both DL and Waddell.

He is young, but already an NHL player. He has no spot in the top 6 or even top 9 on the Kings, where he clearly belongs, and he has tremendous upside. His value has to be pretty damn high.

I could see Atlanta demanding he be a part of any deal.

Aaaaah..... damnit I don't know. I really really really don't want to trade Oscar.

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01-20-2010, 04:35 PM
  #63
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seriously.....................

Do we really want Kovalchuk
with this coaching staff on board ?????

I mean if Kovachuk enters the practice ice for the first
time and watch what's going on there he would headscratch and ask why it is nescessary to take practice with the Wrestling team
and why the ice in the middle of the rink is never been used.

He would ask for a trade very soon

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Old
01-20-2010, 04:36 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I'd do that.

I'm also more and more willing to part with Moller in a deal like this.

I LOVE Oscar, and I want to watch him develop into the next dynamic, 30-40 goal scoring, leading Swede winger on this team, which I am confident he will become. He has too much charisma, zest, talent, heart, grit and anything else you can think of to not overcome his size. If Cammy can do it just kidding... lets not go there.

But seriously, Moller might be very enticing to both DL and Waddell.

He is young, but already an NHL player. He has no spot in the top 6 or even top 9 on the Kings, where he clearly belongs, and he has tremendous upside. His value has to be pretty damn high.

I could see Atlanta demanding he be a part of any deal.

Aaaaah..... damnit I don't know. I really really really don't want to trade Oscar.
Yeah, I'm really beginning to like Oscar's game as well. It's just frustrating that he's limited to the 4th line minutes because you can see his confidence growing with every shift.

TM really should give Oscar a chance at the 1st line.

If we had to add anything more to the Schenn + deal, I would throw in Purcell.

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01-20-2010, 04:40 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
So yeah, I actually think the team's performance up until the deadline will have more to do with DL's willingness to part with assets than what those assets are themselves.
I agree with everything you said and in the end, I think it will be too much for him to give up. The team is struggling right now so unless they get it going again, then I don't see him making the move. Lets be honest, this team hasn't played that great since about November. The race for the 5-8 spots is still very close and the Kings can easily make it but they need to start winning again.

I think our only hope is if nobody is willing to part with solid roster players, DL offers a decent package of prospects and picks. Chicago is the only team that is likely to give up roster players because most other teams are going to want to keep them for their playoff run (I'm guessing). So maybe that does go in the Kings' favor.

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01-20-2010, 04:53 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
seriously.....................

Do we really want Kovalchuk
with this coaching staff on board ?????

I mean if Kovachuk enters the practice ice for the first
time and watch what's going on there he would headscratch and ask why it is nescessary to take practice with the Wrestling team
and why the ice in the middle of the rink is never been used.

He would ask for a trade very soon
And just like that, another Kurri signature quote is born.

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Old
01-20-2010, 05:45 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Dave in LA View Post
I think he goes to Colorado.
Who in the world does Colorado trade?
At the end of the season if Kovy is a UFA then yes, maybe. (I would think Colorado would have to have a good year too.

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01-20-2010, 05:49 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
SFkingshomer: What is it with people trying to argue that the two MOST ELITE goal scorers in the league don't play sound defense. Who here wants an elite goal scorer to play defense? I want an elite goal scorer to score goals, but I might not know what I'm talking about.

Secondly, check out www.capgeek.com and use the 2010-2011 calculator to see what next year's roster would look like and the cap hit associated with it.

Do a little playing around and you'll see that we have quite a bit of room to add a big $ player without dismantling the team.

My sample this morning:

Kopitar
Smyth
Handzus
Stoll
Williams
Brown
Moller
Simmonds
Segal
*Richardson (I assumed a generous salary increase to $750,000)
*Parse (I assumed a generous salary increase to $750,000)
Doughty
Scuderi
Greene
Johnson
Martinez
Drewskie
Harrold
Quick
Ersberg

Total (including buyouts and everything else) : $47,596,666

That leaves roughly $12.4 million for 3 roster spaces. We CAN afford Kovalchuk!

Hell, imagine (unlikely, hence use of the word IMAGINE) Kovy @ 8m + Frolov @ $4m. How ******* awesome would that be?

If you take it a step further and look at when contracts expire, you will see some of the genious Lombardi has used in lining up when contracts expire and when younger guys need new contracts.
How about Marleau at 6 mill and Fro 3.5 - 4 mill and a Chris Neil type player for 2 mill, its nice to know that we can spend a bit and make our team better.

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01-20-2010, 05:50 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one2gamble View Post
Serious question, with the assets you guys have why wouldnt you just wait until hes a ufa unless he comes in at a steal.
That is likely what Dean is trying to do. It was the same with Gaborik except this time around, Dean is willing to look into the high end 12 year deal. The key is, in order for Dean to pull the trigger now and pay assets to do it, he needs to be able to discuss a contract with Kovalchuk. I think if DW doesn't let DL talk to Kovy's agent, then there isn't a deal to be done this season, and DL looks to free agency, but if DW gives DL the green light, then DL would pay the assets to guarantee a Kovy in a Kings sweater for the long haul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Am I the only one who really wouldn't mind giving up a deal built around Schenn for Kovy?

The more I think about it, the less 'untouchable' I consider Schenn if we are talking about the kind of talent a Kovy brings to the table.
No, I would too. I hate to think about it, but I would deal Schenn for Kovalchuk without thinking on it too much if that is the chip Atlanta can't live without.

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01-20-2010, 07:00 PM
  #70
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I just don't see Lombardi giving up the assets or contract it will take to land Kovalchuk.

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01-20-2010, 07:24 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
How about Marleau at 6 mill and Fro 3.5 - 4 mill and a Chris Neil type player for 2 mill, its nice to know that we can spend a bit and make our team better.
Personally i would rather Kovalchuk and Frolov over Marleau, Frolov, and Neil.
Either way would be good though

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01-20-2010, 07:33 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
How about Marleau at 6 mill and Fro 3.5 - 4 mill and a Chris Neil type player for 2 mill, its nice to know that we can spend a bit and make our team better.
Why do we need to re-sign Frolov when we can package him in a deal for Kovalchuck. Atlanta wants roster players, they are already a young team with bogosian kane and little and dont want more prospects. Here is what im thinking: Frolov Johnson/Drewiskie and a 2nd in 2010 first/second in 2011 for kovalchuck. Frolov can resign with atlanta and johnson would be another young d-man atlanta would want to go along with bogosian. Kovalchuck is a 50+ goal scorer with the kings and the kings are a playoff team with Kovalchuck. Kovalchuck is the beat RFA/UFA available in the next two years (better than marleau). Once again this was dean lombardis plan rebuild and atract a big name. If he gets traded to any other team than the kings i would be very dissapointed. If he hits UFA a signs with another team then i can understand.

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01-20-2010, 07:39 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clashdub1 View Post
Why do we need to re-sign Frolov when we can package him in a deal for Kovalchuck. Atlanta wants roster players, they are already a young team with bogosian kane and little and dont want more prospects. Here is what im thinking: Frolov Johnson/Drewiskie and a 2nd in 2010 first/second in 2011 for kovalchuck. Frolov can resign with atlanta and johnson would be another young d-man atlanta would want to go along with bogosian. Kovalchuck is a 50+ goal scorer with the kings and the kings are a playoff team with Kovalchuck. Kovalchuck is the beat RFA/UFA available in the next two years (better than marleau). Once again this was dean lombardis plan rebuild and atract a big name. If he gets traded to any other team than the kings i would be very dissapointed. If he hits UFA a signs with another team then i can understand.
If that is all they wanted, then Kovalchuk would be a King right now.

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01-20-2010, 08:19 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
If that is all they wanted, then Kovalchuk would be a King right now.
unless Lombardi feels he can't replace Johnson from within and doesn't have a deal in place for another defenseman.

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01-20-2010, 09:59 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post



Hell, imagine (unlikely, hence use of the word IMAGINE) Kovy @ 8m + Frolov @ $4m. How ******* awesome would that be?

If you take it a step further and look at when contracts expire, you will see some of the genious Lombardi has used in lining up when contracts expire and when younger guys need new contracts.
If you think about it, they wouldn't even need to resign Fro. They'd have Smyth, Kovy, Parse on the LW. I don't think i'd want Parse on the 4th line.

We'd be looking at something like this:

Kovy- Kopitar- Williams
Smyth- Stoll- Brown
Parse- Zues- Simmonds
Richardson- Moller- Segal

Doughty-Scuderi
JJ-Greene
Harrold-Drewiske
Martinez

Quick
Ersberg

Using capgeek.com I threw together this lineup with Kovy at $9.2M, we would be $3.27M under the cap.

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