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Fri Jan 22: Poni worth a 2nd

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01-22-2010, 01:21 PM
  #51
Joey Hoser
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In an informal survey of NHL executives and general managers conducted by The Toronto Sun at the 2010 NHL/CHL Top Prospects Game at the WFCU Centre in Windsor on Wednesday, Ponikarovsky was the one Leaf not named Tomas Kaberle who respondents felt would land Toronto the most lucrative return.

“I think you might be able to get a late second-round pick for him,” one GM said. “He’s a big body guy who could go to the dirty areas in front of the net. He has some good hands too.

“I don’t think you would get much more than that. He’s not as refined as Antropov.”
Not to dispute the suposed value of Poni, but the bolded part kinda reveals that this GM hasn't watched a lot of him. The guy has everything but good hands.

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01-22-2010, 01:29 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Not to dispute the suposed value of Poni, but the bolded part kinda reveals that this GM hasn't watched a lot of him. The guy has everything but good hands.
Why not say "good hands"? He's about to be a 20 goal scorer for 4th time in his career. "Great hands", no way. "Lousy hands?" Save that for the Wayne Primeau's, Jamal Mayers, Colton Orr's of the NHL.

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01-22-2010, 01:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Not to dispute the suposed value of Poni, but the bolded part kinda reveals that this GM hasn't watched a lot of him. The guy has everything but good hands.
I agree with both sides. Some nights his hands are quite good... Some nights... they simply arn't.

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01-22-2010, 01:31 PM
  #54
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I still don't understand why we're moving all our big buddies up front out.

If Poni can't be resigned cheap enough fine. a late 2nd is under payment.

I wouldn't want anything less than a 40th OA pick.

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01-22-2010, 01:39 PM
  #55
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Stempniak is not a favourite of mine but he has a nasty good shot when he hits the net, and one times the puck very well.
There, fixed.

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01-22-2010, 01:43 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What is Morrison's track record that makes his opinion one of value?

The past The Hockey News Future Watch ranked Leafs under 21 prospects #29 of 30 teams overall..

Morrison's drafts were from 2006-2009 and the exact players in question here that place Leafs prospect pool at the near bottom of the NHL in a comparison of other teams.

The only drafted players under Morrison that have played on the Leafs this year are Euro's Kulemin, Gunnarsson and Stalberg, Schenn and 3 of those are more likely to be here as a result of Chief Euro Amateur Scout Thommie Bergman. The other Luke Schenn as the only NA player and many question his selection were it was made at #5 overall.

Wasn't Luke the consensus 5th overall pick pretty much across the board?

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01-22-2010, 01:55 PM
  #57
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I could actually see Atlanta trading Kovalchuk to a contender for players + prospects + 1st 2010, and then flipping the 1st for Poni. It would be a late 1st and it would mean another warm body for Atlanta to cushion the blow of losing Kovy.

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01-22-2010, 02:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by s h a n Y e View Post
I still don't understand why we're moving all our big buddies up front out.

If Poni can't be resigned cheap enough fine. a late 2nd is under payment.

I wouldn't want anything less than a 40th OA pick.
Well when you wake up from your dream world and realize that HFBoards overvalues everything, I think you'll be better off.

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01-22-2010, 02:05 PM
  #59
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You mean teams aren't lining up to take that top 2 centerman Matt Stajan? Shocking, must not read these boards.

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01-22-2010, 02:10 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
Wasn't Luke the consensus 5th overall pick pretty much across the board?
Yes, him and Filatov were the only realistic possibilities at that point, Schenn was rated higher in general, but there was a Filatov camp.

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01-22-2010, 02:20 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
I'd rather just keep him, depending on cost, or try to get a young body in return for Poni. The chances a late 2nd rounder will turn out to be as good as Poni are minimal.
So a late 2nd round draft pick won't be as good as a player drafted in the 4th round (Ponikarovsky)?

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01-22-2010, 02:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Belmonte View Post
So a late 2nd round draft pick won't be as good as a player drafted in the 4th round (Ponikarovsky)?
Is this the point you want to make? Honestly? I bet the wings could steal Datsyuk for a 4th rounder! Afterall he's just a 6th round pick.

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01-22-2010, 02:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Dave Morrison On the Kessel Trade:


“When we made the deal for Phil, Brian talked to me ahead of time,” Morrison said. “I was fine with it. I mean, this kid is a very talented player who is still very young.”

Knowing how Morrison evaluates young talent, isnt that a good sign?
Wouldnt he have a good idea about what is available this draft?
Not so sure about that, I would imagine that Cliff talked to him about Schenn and then gave away the Farm, doubt if Myers came up in the Conversation.

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01-22-2010, 02:31 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
I could actually see Atlanta trading Kovalchuk to a contender for players + prospects + 1st 2010, and then flipping the 1st for Poni. It would be a late 1st and it would mean another warm body for Atlanta to cushion the blow of losing Kovy.
Why wouldn't Atlanta simply wait until Pony became a UFA this summer and then sign him for FREE to come play with his pal Antropov?

Here is a more plausible Kovalchuk scenario.

- Bruins trade Kessel to the Leafs for high picks..
- Bruins trade high picks for Kovalchuk.
- Bruins win the Stanley Cup and owe it all to the Leafs.
- Bruins trade a 2nd round pick to the Leafs to say thanks, and with the pick recovered now Leafs re-sign Pony.

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01-22-2010, 02:34 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Belmonte View Post
So a late 2nd round draft pick won't be as good as a player drafted in the 4th round (Ponikarovsky)?
Statistically there is about a 25% chance to get a NHL player who ends up having a career in the league with a 2nd round pick.

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01-22-2010, 02:36 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Sure, but my evaluation is not in question here as I am not employed by MLSE.. I also didn't even give my opinion on the selections.

Dave Morrison on the other hand is Director of Amateur Scouting for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and is accountable for the selections being made. So I asked what success has Morrison had that constitutes that his opinion is held in such high regard.
Actually, you did.

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01-22-2010, 02:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Why wouldn't Atlanta simply wait until Pony became a UFA this summer and then sign him for FREE to come play with his pal Antropov?

Here is a more plausible Kovalchuk scenario.

- Bruins trade Kessel to the Leafs for high picks..
- Bruins trade high picks for Kovalchuk.
- Bruins win the Stanley Cup and owe it all to the Leafs.
- Bruins trade a 2nd round pick to the Leafs to say thanks, and with the pick recovered now Leafs re-sign Pony.
Only works if you ignore the talk that Atlanta wants a roster player back in the deal. And a significant roster player, not some mediocre winger, or grinder. The speculation was a package from Calgary, or Chicago. Names like Phaneuf, Kris Versteeg, and Patrick Sharp were being thrown around.

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01-22-2010, 02:38 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Statistically there is about a 25% chance to get a NHL player who ends up having a career in the league with a 2nd round pick.
I'm surprised it's that high, do you know what they define as a "career"?

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01-22-2010, 02:44 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I'm surprised it's that high, do you know what they define as a "career"?
400 games qualifies a player for a full pension so that is what I use for reference point.

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01-22-2010, 02:47 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
Only works if you ignore the talk that Atlanta wants a roster player back in the deal. And a significant roster player, not some mediocre winger, or grinder. The speculation was a package from Calgary, or Chicago. Names like Phaneuf, Kris Versteeg, and Patrick Sharp were being thrown around.
Bruins would have to trade roster player(s) in order to make it work Cap wise along with the picks anyways.. Maybe Canadian Olympian Patrice Bergeron would qualify as significant roster player.. Certainly equal to Versteeg or Sharp.

In fact Boston would want to move some players out anyways in order to potentially re-sign Kovy in the process.. A contract extension might even be part of the deal if Boston is giving up Leafs lottery pick in the process.. Marc Savard and Kovy had great statistical success in Atlanta so Bruins know they are getting instant chemistry..

But this is probably better conversation for the Kovy thread on the Leafs board. Lets keep this one about Pony and other Leaf players trade potential return.


Last edited by Mess: 01-22-2010 at 02:56 PM.
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01-22-2010, 02:51 PM
  #71
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If Burke does not have Poni in his future plans then he would easily move him if offered a 2nd round pick in return. I wonder what Burke thinks of Poni?

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01-22-2010, 02:51 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Belmonte View Post
So a late 2nd round draft pick won't be as good as a player drafted in the 4th round (Ponikarovsky)?
It's been said already, but.....seriously?

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01-22-2010, 02:53 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
400 games qualifies a player for a full pension so that is what I use for reference point.
Interesting, I'm shocked a second rounder has that good of a return.

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01-22-2010, 03:10 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Interesting, I'm shocked a second rounder has that good of a return.
I thought that it was higher the way some people think that losing a 2nd round pick kills the future or gaining one is reason for a party so I had to look it up.

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01-22-2010, 03:12 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by DaveLeafFan View Post
take out Tangradi or the first and this deal might make sense. Otherwise, Pens are paying too much.
id rather add something more then take out tangradi or the first. imo those are the attractive part of the package. kunitz is ok but imo if we brought him in it would have little more impact then just keeping hagman or poni. im not sure what prospect we could include? maybe hayes? and take back a dump?




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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
If Burke does not have Poni in his future plans then he would easily move him if offered a 2nd round pick in return. I wonder what Burke thinks of Poni?
i agree, considering the amount of good players burke put on waivers, im sure he would gladly take a 2nd.

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