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Would This Be Legal??

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01-21-2010, 05:36 PM
  #1
SteveV*
 
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Would This Be Legal??

One of the things the Leafs have going for them, when they try to sign players, is potential additional revenue from advertising contracts. The Leafs sell many, many boxes and seats to corporations. Could the Leafs give corporations a discount on boxes, whatnot, if they agreed to use Leaf players in different kinds of ads? Could the Leafs then use this additional revenue for a player to circumvent the salary cap?

Really, what a player makes on the side has nothing to do with the salary cap. What a team charges for corporate boxes has nothing to do with the NHL, it's their domain. Is there anything illegal about giving corps a deal on seats in return for using Leaf players in ads? Does this make sense?

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01-21-2010, 05:42 PM
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Hurt
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One thing my old man taught me when I was younger: 'If it's too good to be true, it most likely is.'

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01-21-2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
One of the things the Leafs have going for them, when they try to sign players, is potential additional revenue from advertising contracts. The Leafs sell many, many boxes and seats to corporations. Could the Leafs give corporations a discount on boxes, whatnot, if they agreed to use Leaf players in different kinds of ads? Could the Leafs then use this additional revenue for a player to circumvent the salary cap?

Really, what a player makes on the side has nothing to do with the salary cap. What a team charges for corporate boxes has nothing to do with the NHL, it's their domain. Is there anything illegal about giving corps a deal on seats in return for using Leaf players in ads? Does this make sense?
Its referred to as "Endorsement Deals" .. You see players all the time in various adds on TV etc that are incomes in addition to their NHL Salaries.

Why would a player agree to what you are suggest here ? What is the value to him?

You might be able to lure him to Toronto to sign as a UFA perhaps by offering him endorsement deals above his salary, but I don't see a player taking less as a Hockey player to make it up in other areas.

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01-21-2010, 06:39 PM
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Caesium
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Not allowed. This is clear cut circumvention.

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01-21-2010, 06:39 PM
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Any attempt to circumvent the cap is a violation of the CBA.

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01-21-2010, 07:27 PM
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well you could always hand the players a duffel bag full of cash as a signing bonus that no one knows about goes around the cap and taxes?...its only illegal if you get caught.....sign kovi to a 7 mil cap hit and hand him 3mil in cash under the table per year...do this with a few stars and we could build a winner for once....come on burkie if you aint cheating you aint trying.....just kidding...but the thought definitly has crossed my mind....how would anyone know?...only if the player declined and told on the gm......thats just how my mind works though...probably why ive unfortunatly spent time in club fed...

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01-21-2010, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Any attempt to circumvent the cap is a violation of the CBA.
Although, if a player takes it upon himself to do so, it wouldn't be. It's completely up to them, how much they want to ***** themselves out.

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01-21-2010, 08:17 PM
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stanleyorbust
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Any superstar that comes to Toronto and has some success is an instant hero... Look at how much Cujo Gilmour, Clarke... all above average players who are LOVED by the city and still get endorsement deals. I still see Sundin pokerstar commercials and he hasn't been on the leafs for two seasons.

If Kovy... or any other superstar comes to Toronto... they can easily add a few more million on per season and become instant Hero's. To me, that has to be what Burke sells come July 1st. A chance to make a ton of money, a chance to be loved by millions, and a chance to be the ultimate hero and bring the cup back to toronto... how can you say no to that?

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01-21-2010, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by stanleyorbust View Post
and a chance to be the ultimate hero and bring the cup back to toronto... how can you say no to that?
You look at the status of the roster and decide you want to sign with an actual contender.

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01-21-2010, 09:55 PM
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I was always wondering if they could give them like a janitor job where they like sweep for an hour around the ACC and then get paid 1 million dollars or something under the table? lol

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01-21-2010, 09:56 PM
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You look at the status of the roster and decide you want to sign with an actual contender.
rofl

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Old
01-21-2010, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanleyorbust View Post
Any superstar that comes to Toronto and has some success is an instant hero... Look at how much Cujo Gilmour, Clarke... all above average players who are LOVED by the city and still get endorsement deals. I still see Sundin pokerstar commercials and he hasn't been on the leafs for two seasons.

If Kovy... or any other superstar comes to Toronto... they can easily add a few more million on per season and become instant Hero's. To me, that has to be what Burke sells come July 1st. A chance to make a ton of money, a chance to be loved by millions, and a chance to be the ultimate hero and bring the cup back to toronto... how can you say no to that?
word. however, when was the last time the Leafs acquired a true superstar on July 1st in his prime?


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01-21-2010, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
I was always wondering if they could give them like a janitor job where they like sweep for an hour around the ACC and then get paid 1 million dollars or something under the table? lol
It sounds silly, but I've had this exact same thought before!

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01-22-2010, 02:34 AM
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word. however, when was the last time the Leafs acquired a true superstar on July 1st in his prime?
Uhhh...Mike Komisarek?

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01-22-2010, 02:41 AM
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Only in Nunavut.

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01-22-2010, 02:43 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyAustralia View Post
word. however, when was the last time the Leafs acquired a true superstar on July 1st in his prime?
That's a bit of soft question, because I don't recall the Leafs having salary cap room, or the willingness to spend big dollars since the lockout. They also had a pretty big spending spree during the season they re-signed MCabe, Kaberle, Sundin.

Prior to the lockout, they often paid for those players, but used their money to re-sign them.

But you are right, they haven't generally signed big UFA's.

Also interesting to note, the Leafs have rarely been stuck with one of those ridiculously overpaid players.

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01-22-2010, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
That's a bit of soft question, because I don't recall the Leafs having salary cap room, or the willingness to spend big dollars since the lockout. They also had a pretty big spending spree during the season they re-signed MCabe, Kaberle, Sundin.

Prior to the lockout, they often paid for those players, but used their money to re-sign them.

But you are right, they haven't generally signed big UFA's.

Also interesting to note, the Leafs have rarely been stuck with one of those ridiculously overpaid players.
THIS

as much as Kovy is awesome and id love him on the leafs.

remember when Lecavalier signed his big deal. he is still great but that contract is terrible and is un-moveable.

i would hate for the leafs to be stuck with such a delema.

mostly because i couldnt stand coming to these boards anymore.

every other thread after he had a bad game would be OMG KOVY IS OVERPAID OMG DUMP HIM TO THE MARLIES OMG OMG OMG.

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01-22-2010, 03:24 AM
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I was thinking about this the other day, ways that we could use cash to gain some kind of advantage over other teams.

We've already built a pretty amazing training facility so thats got to count towards swaying some players that this is the place to be.

Would there be anything to stop us buying houses for players who come in? call it a "welcome package", a house, a couple of cars, that kinda thing? I dont know if this breaks any rules?

A slight variation on the original post but would there be anything stopping the leafs pre-arranging a "sponsorship" for a player prior to signing him? We could say to the player, rather than taking $10m a year, we can offer you $7m a year AND a sponsorship deal with ____ worth a guarenteed $5m a year for the duration of your contract?

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01-22-2010, 07:00 AM
  #19
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Vancouver won't like this one bit.

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01-22-2010, 07:20 AM
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Caesium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukleafsfan View Post
I was thinking about this the other day, ways that we could use cash to gain some kind of advantage over other teams.

We've already built a pretty amazing training facility so thats got to count towards swaying some players that this is the place to be.

Would there be anything to stop us buying houses for players who come in? call it a "welcome package", a house, a couple of cars, that kinda thing? I dont know if this breaks any rules?

A slight variation on the original post but would there be anything stopping the leafs pre-arranging a "sponsorship" for a player prior to signing him? We could say to the player, rather than taking $10m a year, we can offer you $7m a year AND a sponsorship deal with ____ worth a guarenteed $5m a year for the duration of your contract?
You cannot give a player any money via anything other than the salary they signed for on the contract. End of story.

Read the CBA before asking stupid questions. Do you really think you're going to outsmart the army of lawyers that created this thing?

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01-22-2010, 12:39 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Caesium View Post
You cannot give a player any money via anything other than the salary they signed for on the contract. End of story.

Read the CBA before asking stupid questions. Do you really think you're going to outsmart the army of lawyers that created this thing?
Yup. Article 26 of the CBA - general rule

Quote:
26.2 Undisclosed Terms and Revenues.

A Club (directly or indirectly through a "Club Actor," i.e., any owner, shareholder, Club Affiliated Entity, the NHL or third party acting at the behest of a Club) and a Player (directly or indirectly through a "Player Actor," i.e., his Certified Agent or any other individual, any entity, or the NHLPA, acting on behalf of the Player) may not, at any time, enter into undisclosed agreements of any kind, express or implied, oral or written, or promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind involving consideration of any kind to be paid, furnished or made available or guaranteed to the Player, or Player Actor, by the Club or Club Actor either prior to, during, or after the term of the Player's SPC.
The following Article 26.3 goes into excruciating detail of circumventions and there are very strict requirements on endorsement deals and what is allowable.

Article 26.15 provides a non-exhaustive list of activities that would constitute a circumvention - these include:
  • A Player enters into a sponsorship or endorsement arrangement with a local sponsor or entity with which his Club does business, in which the Player receives something of value that is disproportionate to (i.e., clearly in excess of) the fair market value of the services rendered by the Player on behalf of the sponsor or endorser.
  • A Club or Club Actor pays a Player or Player Actor for a "no-show" job, or for a job in which the payment to the Player or Player Actor clearly exceeds the fair market value of the services rendered.
http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

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Old
01-23-2010, 05:00 AM
  #22
ukleafsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesium View Post
You cannot give a player any money via anything other than the salary they signed for on the contract. End of story.

Read the CBA before asking stupid questions. Do you really think you're going to outsmart the army of lawyers that created this thing?
wow sorry to offend you man, I was just asking as I wasnt sure, the title of the thread was "would this be legal" I thought id ask a question about if something would be allowed. no harm meant

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