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Complete players on the Sens...

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09-23-2003, 08:11 AM
  #1
Volchenkov
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Complete players on the Sens...

This is my feeling as to why Muckler chose to sign Smolinski over Arvedson: He wants to eventually have a team of complete players with no weaknesses in their games.

Complete players: Hossa, Bonk, Smolinski, Fisher, White,

Players who will become complete players: Spezza, Havlat, Vermette

One weakness: Alfredsson, Varada, Schaeffer, Neil, Shastlivy

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09-23-2003, 08:16 AM
  #2
Hugh Nito I
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
He wants to eventually have a team of complete players with no weaknesses in their games..
..which makes him a perfect Martin player, since he basically can be thrown in during any part of the game, and in any situation. Makes sense.

I assume, after reading your previous posts, that the only flaw on Varada is that he can't play hockey.. ?

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09-23-2003, 08:22 AM
  #3
The Lehner
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I think that the following players would be considered complete players:

Marian Hossa
Daniel Alfredsson
Wade Redden

I think the following players are close to being complete players:

Radek Bonk (consistent effort lacking)
Mike Fisher (close)
Bryan Smolinski (not a natural scorer per se, long scoring droughts in his career)
Zdeno Chara (lacking some finesse)

Spezza clearly has the desire to become a complete player but that's a few years away IMO.


Interesting topic...why is everyone on Varada's case so much? I think he is a very valuable player to the Sens and gives them an important ingredient to being a successful team.

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:23 AM
  #4
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
..which makes him a perfect Martin player, since he basically can be thrown in during any part of the game, and in any situation. Makes sense.

I assume, after reading your previous posts, that the only flaw on Varada is that he can't play hockey.. ?
You hit the nail on the head on that one.

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:25 AM
  #5
Hugh Nito I
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
This is my feeling as to why Muckler chose to sign Smolinski over Arvedson: He wants to eventually have a team of complete players with no weaknesses in their games.

Complete players: Hossa, Bonk, Smolinski, Fisher, White,

Players who will become complete players: Spezza, Havlat, Vermette

One weakness: Alfredsson, Varada, Schaeffer, Neil, Shastlivy

What weakness does Alfredsson have that White doesn't? White's lack of physical play and mediocre skating brings him down a notch IMO.

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09-23-2003, 08:32 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
This is my feeling as to why Muckler chose to sign Smolinski over Arvedson: He wants to eventually have a team of complete players with no weaknesses in their games.

Complete players: Hossa, Bonk, Smolinski, Fisher, White,

Players who will become complete players: Spezza, Havlat, Vermette

One weakness: Alfredsson, Varada, Schaeffer, Neil, Shastlivy
Ok, a few things...

1) Bonk lacks consistent effort and a true power game. He's a well-rounded player, but I wouldn't say complete.

2) White is too small and not strong enough to be complete. He is a two-way player, but not complete like Hossa, or Fisher or Smoke for that matter.

3) Alfredsson is a more complete player than everybody save Hossa and Fish in my opinion. He lacks the straight-away speed of those guys, but does it all, and works his butt off.

Interesting concept. THe flaw though, is in determining what you mean by complete. Do you mean, a two-way forward? Or do you mean, no weaknesses, because even Hossa has a weakness, heck, so does Forsberg.

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:41 AM
  #7
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havlat9
I think that the following players would be considered complete players:

Marian Hossa
Daniel Alfredsson
Wade Redden

I think the following players are close to being complete players:

Radek Bonk (consistent effort lacking)
Mike Fisher (close)
Bryan Smolinski (not a natural scorer per se, long scoring droughts in his career)
Zdeno Chara (lacking some finesse)

Spezza clearly has the desire to become a complete player but that's a few years away IMO.


Interesting topic...why is everyone on Varada's case so much? I think he is a very valuable player to the Sens and gives them an important ingredient to being a successful team.
I think it only me who's on Varada's case.

Smolinski is a 20 goal scorer - thus in my book he's a complete player. When it counted in the playoffs Bonk showed a consistent effort - so I still regard him as a comlpete player. Alfie isn't so good defensively so I don't consider him complete. Fisher I probably should have put in the "will become complete" section but he's close enough to be in the complete player section.

My defintion of complete: Can score, pass, stickhandle and play defense. Player must be good in all of the above categories. Toughness and consistentcy are minor factirs in the completeness equation.

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Old
09-23-2003, 08:43 AM
  #8
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
What weakness does Alfredsson have that White doesn't? White's lack of physical play and mediocre skating brings him down a notch IMO.
since when does white have mediocre skating? He's very fast IMO, besides he's just as physical as Alf. Alfie is just an average defensive player - so I wouldn't consider him a complete player. White is a good defensive player thus he is a complete player.

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09-23-2003, 10:17 AM
  #9
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There is another aspect of a complete player that is nice to see, versatility. Smolinski and Varada can play more than one position.
The depth at center could help some players; Fisher, White, Bonk and Vermette. Having player who can switch positions can help in game situations where injuries require changing the line-ups.

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:52 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Alfie isn't so good defensively so I don't consider him complete.
Alfie is good enough defensively to be considered complete. It's not like he's Berezin or Bure

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Old
09-23-2003, 12:58 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
since when does white have mediocre skating? He's very fast IMO, besides he's just as physical as Alf. Alfie is just an average defensive player - so I wouldn't consider him a complete player. White is a good defensive player thus he is a complete player.
For a player as small as White you have to have much better than average speed. White's quick but not that quick - he doesn't have that extra step on anyone. Plus, he spnds a lot of time getting knocked on his ass because he is not strong on his skates. This is why he's a mediocre skater. I'm sure he'd skate circles around me but I'm not in the NHL...

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Old
09-23-2003, 06:34 PM
  #12
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just to add a name (because I saw his missing) Wade Redden is IMO a complete player.

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:38 AM
  #13
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Other than Hossa, who I think is the best defensive player on the team, Alfredsson is the most complete player the Sens have. He is very good defensively, and Hossa has admitted he has tailored his work ethic around Alfredsson's on the ice. To compare White to Alfredsson as a two-way player is way off. They are leagues apart.

Alfredsson is also much more physical than White. In fact, Alfredsson probably initiates more physical contact than the majority of Ottawa forwards - even more than Hossa. I've always thought of him as a Forsberg-lite.

Alfredsson's speed is also top notch. Do people forget that Alfredsson participated in the fastest skater competition at the allstar game? He wasn't among the top group, but he's still one of the better skaters around and you don't go in the competition unless you can fly. And his acceleration off the mark is right up there.

Comparing White to Alfredsson has me shaking my head. One below average playoff and people forget he has been the teams best player by far over the last five years. Last year was the first that Hossa really challenged him, and Alfredsson was still the better player in terms of ppg.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:52 AM
  #14
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
I think it only me who's on Varada's case.
Who cares? He'll probably be a 4th liner for much of the year (while he'd be a solid 3rd liner on any other team). I can't help but be reminded of last years complaining about Jody Hull. No matter who we have on this team, there will always be a worst player. If he happens to be much better than everyone elses' worst player, there's nothing to complain about.

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:22 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
.
Alfie isn't so good defensively so I don't consider him complete.
Yet, last week you thought he should finish out his career as a D man

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Old
09-24-2003, 08:05 AM
  #16
Capt Tuttle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
I think it only me who's on Varada's case.

Smolinski is a 20 goal scorer - thus in my book he's a complete player.
My defintion of complete: Can score, pass, stickhandle and play defense. Player must be good in all of the above categories. Toughness and consistentcy are minor factirs in the completeness equation.
How can you consider consistency and toughness minor factors in a complete player? Intimidation will inhibit one's skill. To be a COMPLETE player you must be skilled both offensively and defensively and make use of that abilty on a regular basis.

I found Smolinski somewhat soft in the playoffs.

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Old
09-24-2003, 08:11 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Tuttle
I found Smolinski somewhat soft in the playoffs.
On Smoke, its not that I found him soft, although he's not a bruiser, but I found him short. He didn't look 6'1 to me. He looked more around 5'11. Hossa for example, listed as either 6'1 or 6'2, looked at least 3 inches taller it seemed. The only reason I could think of is Smoke has a more hunched over skating stride, and Hossa is more upright.

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Old
09-24-2003, 10:30 AM
  #18
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza
Yet, last week you thought he should finish out his career as a D man
That was to be an average-defensive offensive defenseman like Zubov. It was a silly idea I admit, but I was interested if anyone thought it was worth a try for a game or two in the regular season.

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