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#49: Rangers @ Flyers - January 21, 2010 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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01-23-2010, 05:23 PM
  #526
FlyHigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Washington isn't a good team to use as an example for Emery not making big saves. They're probably the best offensive team in the league and I remember us screwing over Emery several times. 9 minute PPs, Coburn scoring on his own goal, continuously allowing breakaways, etc.
Eh whatever, I'm sure we could find loads more.

I don't think the "consistency" issue is really a debate though, it's been very clear that Emery's been inconsistent this year.

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01-23-2010, 05:27 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
One game doesn't exactly change a whole pattern, the season is 82 games long.

You say he makes big saves today (which he did), but he certainly didn't in the Wash game and didn't in games earlier in the year.

Hopefully he can maintain a strong level, but I think that his below-average technique is going to lead to him being a pretty streaky goalie and I dunno if you win Cups with guys like that, we'll find out.
Before Emery got hurt he was making those saves all the time. Back in the opening 10-12 games of the year.

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01-23-2010, 05:30 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Eh whatever, I'm sure we could find loads more.

I don't think the "consistency" issue is really a debate though, it's been very clear that Emery's been inconsistent this year.
I agree, but I think a lot of that comes with the injury he had. The type of injury that it was is very easily something that he could have played though but not played well with. Especially for a reflex goalie like Emery. I think that he has started to calm down a bit in the Rangers game and we will see a very consistent goalie from here on out. The way that Pronger and Timonen are playing can only help.

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01-23-2010, 05:33 PM
  #529
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Eh whatever, I'm sure we could find loads more.

I don't think the "consistency" issue is really a debate though, it's been very clear that Emery's been inconsistent this year.
Depends on whether you include the time where he played injured and came back from injury. I don't include that time because he obviously doesn't play as well when he's injured.

Like I said in the Carolina GDT, Emery is great in scrums around the crease due to his athleticism and he's pretty competent at stopping initial shots when the d-men have their guys covered.

It's the breakaways, two-on-one's, etc. that he has problems with. I don't fault him for that and, in my opinion, that's why people seem to believe that he can't make the "big saves" because big saves to many people are stopping shots when the odds aren't in your favor to begin with (like breakaways or odd-man rushes for example). I don't share that definition of a "big save" so I believe that Emery is a pretty decent goalie who has the ability to make big saves. Like he did today for instance.

As I said in the Carolina GDT, Emery is the kind of goalie that's only as good as the team in front of him most of the time. If the defense is clearing rebounds and preventing breakaways he'll probably have a good game. Like today and against the Rags.

In the end, my opinion of Emery lies somewhere in between yours and KingPin's.

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01-23-2010, 05:38 PM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Before Emery got hurt he was making those saves all the time. Back in the opening 10-12 games of the year.
Well, I'd say that any goalie can get hot for 10-12 games (Nitty did it all the time), I just don't think Emery's style translates into consistency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Depends on whether you include the time where he played injured and came back from injury. I don't include that time because he obviously doesn't play as well when he's injured.

Like I said in the Carolina GDT, Emery is great in scrums around the crease due to his athleticism and he's pretty competent at stopping initial shots when the d-men have their guys covered.

It's the breakaways, two-on-one's, etc. that he has problems with. I don't fault him for that and, in my opinion, that's why people seem to believe that he can't make the "big saves" because big saves to many people are stopping shots when the odds aren't in your favor to begin with (like breakaways or odd-man rushes for example). I don't share that definition of a "big save" so I believe that Emery is a pretty decent goalie who has the ability to make big saves. Like he did today for instance.

As I said in the Carolina GDT, Emery is the kind of goalie that's only as good as the team in front of him most of the time. If the defense is clearing rebounds and preventing breakaways he'll probably have a good game. Like today and against the Rags.

In the end, my opinion of Emery lies somewhere in between yours and KingPin's.
To go off my point above, I think that while you can be successful playing an athletic style (Timmy T, Hasek), it's extremely difficult and Emery just has a lot of glaring holes in his game IMO.

Days like today, he pulled off some great saves, that one at the end is one that an less athletic goalie doesn't pull off. The question is whether that kind of style is really going to hold up because he does consistently spray rebounds (we've noticed this all year) and does tend to leave holes.

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01-23-2010, 05:50 PM
  #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
To go off my point above, I think that while you can be successful playing an athletic style (Timmy T, Hasek), it's extremely difficult and Emery just has a lot of glaring holes in his game IMO.

Days like today, he pulled off some great saves, that one at the end is one that an less athletic goalie doesn't pull off. The question is whether that kind of style is really going to hold up because he does consistently spray rebounds (we've noticed this all year) and does tend to leave holes.
Meh. For every game you could point out where his athletic style didn't work out for him, someone else could point out a game where that athletic style saved his ass (like today). Every games different and you can't really generalize Emery by saving that "you don't think that style can hold up". Any goalie can be made to look elite by an elite team in front of him. The Red Wings, the Bruins from last year, and the Pens from last year all have made good goalies look elite. For that reason goaltending is a pretty overrated position I believe.

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01-23-2010, 05:52 PM
  #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Meh. For every game you could point out where his athletic style didn't work out for him, someone else could point out a game where that athletic style saved his ass (like today). Every games different and you can't really generalize Emery by saving that "you don't think that style can hold up". Any goalie can be made to look elite by an elite team in front of him. The Red Wings, the Bruins from last year, and the Pens from last year all have made good goalies look elite.
Yeah, but in the playoffs, that can get dicey.

Just as a hypothetical, I'd rather have the guy who puts up the .920 every night in the playoffs instead of the guy who puts up a .900 one night and a .940 the next night.

Obviously that's a basic example, but there's a lot of risk in Emery's game and in a 7 game series, if your goalie blows a couple games, that can be the difference between advancing and playing golf.

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01-23-2010, 06:15 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah, but in the playoffs, that can get dicey.

Just as a hypothetical, I'd rather have the guy who puts up the .920 every night in the playoffs instead of the guy who puts up a .900 one night and a .940 the next night.

Obviously that's a basic example, but there's a lot of risk in Emery's game and in a 7 game series, if your goalie blows a couple games, that can be the difference between advancing and playing golf.
I see what you're trying to say about the save percentages, but it really doesn't matter. In the year that the Pens won the Cup, Fleury had a save percentage of .908 overall. In the most recent year that Osgood won it, he had a .930 save percentage. That's a huge difference.

Really, the team in front of the goalie affects the playoffs far, far more then the actual goalie. For instance, if our defense is clearing rebounds like they did for Leighton (a truly crappy goalie) they can beef up his stats and make him look much better then he actually is.

When our team is playing like it's supposed to be there's no need for an "elite" goalie. We can make Michael Leighton look like a world-beater.

Besides, there's no point in worrying about Emery or the playoffs until we're actually in the playoffs and Emery has given us a cause for concern.

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01-23-2010, 07:08 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I see what you're trying to say about the save percentages, but it really doesn't matter. In the year that the Pens won the Cup, Fleury had a save percentage of .908 overall. In the most recent year that Osgood won it, he had a .930 save percentage. That's a huge difference.

Really, the team in front of the goalie affects the playoffs far, far more then the actual goalie. For instance, if our defense is clearing rebounds like they did for Leighton (a truly crappy goalie) they can beef up his stats and make him look much better then he actually is.

When our team is playing like it's supposed to be there's no need for an "elite" goalie. We can make Michael Leighton look like a world-beater.

Besides, there's no point in worrying about Emery or the playoffs until we're actually in the playoffs and Emery has given us a cause for concern.
Im with you Garbage (never thought id say that). it really comes down to those KEY saves. In the series against the Pens Fluery had many key saves and was THE reason they won IMO.

I think we are at a point with Emery that if he plays well you can blame inconsistencies on injury. If he falters you can blame it on poor goaltending. I think the last two games show where things are actually heading. The big test in tomorrow obviously.

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01-24-2010, 11:12 AM
  #535
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I came across this in Pierre LeBrun's ESPN column (posted on Kukla's Site):

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre

Quote:

Flyers-Rangers fallout
The Rangers, understandably, weren't happy when their star player, Marian Gaborik, got beat up by Flyers agitator/tough guy Daniel Carcillo on Thursday night. I don't blame them. I can just imagine their anger Friday when these Twitter posts were sent out by the Flyers:


From: @NHLFlyers
Sent: Jan 22, 2010 1:06p
In case you missed it, here's video of the Carcillo/Gaborik fight from last night.
http://*******/5akcFO
sent via TweetDeck




From: @NHLFlyers
Sent: Jan 22, 2010 9:44a
Check out last night's media availability following the game, inc. Carcillo's "licking his chops" comment (video): http://*******/71Pv6V
sent via TweetDeck




"I can't say I was aware they were doing this," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told ESPN.com via e-mail Saturday. "It's not in violation of any existing policy we have."



There are no rules against it, but it's in poor taste, in my mind.

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01-24-2010, 11:23 AM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I see what you're trying to say about the save percentages, but it really doesn't matter. In the year that the Pens won the Cup, Fleury had a save percentage of .908 overall. In the most recent year that Osgood won it, he had a .930 save percentage. That's a huge difference.
Eh, this is where you need to be careful given the small sample size of the playoffs.

Rd 1: .922 SVPCT
7 GA in 4 wins.
9 GA in 2 losses.

Rd. 2: .878 SVPCT
10 GA in 4 wins.
12 GA in 3 losses.

Rd. 3: .924
9 GA in 4 wins.

Rd. 4: .913
6 GA in 4 wins.
11 GA in 3 losses.

So, MAF got lit up in a few games, but when the Pens won he was very strong. In three of the four series his SVPCT was better than his average, and in the series below they probably would have lost if their opposition wasn't getting weak goaltending, too: .898.

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