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For the "blow it up now" folks -- Lundqvist

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Old
01-24-2010, 03:57 PM
  #51
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Thread title should be changed to Blow some of it up.

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01-24-2010, 04:06 PM
  #52
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the term "blow it up" to me is pretty much what we already did this off-season. You can't just continue to blow it up. We need to get rid of select pieces and be sure to replace them with the right players. Letting Antropov, Zherdev, Mara, Morris etc. walk is fine, but when you replace them with Kotalik, Lisin, Higgins, Gilroy, etc. there lies the problem.

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01-24-2010, 04:17 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
A rational post.

The team is not perfect; it's not a cup winner. It is by no means as bad as the last game against MTL or as good as the games against TB or MTL last week. Apply a logical, patient approach to improving it. If you can trade the guys who clearly aren't part of the long term solution, then trade 'em - I would hope that Higgins, Prospal and maybe Girardi could get you valuable returns at the deadline. But you don't make trades just to make trades - you don't "blow it up" just to blow it up.
dude you're not smart...at all. The team is "not perfect"? Yeah, no kidding? The team is GARBAGE....do you even watch the games?

All of you pseudo-rational optimists have no clue what you're talking about. Admit what this team is: Heartless, Soft, Impotent.

You can continue your rhetoric from your "Mr. Rational" soapbox...but you're just blind. period.

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01-24-2010, 04:56 PM
  #54
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dude you're not smart...at all. The team is "not perfect"? Yeah, no kidding? The team is GARBAGE....do you even watch the games?

All of you pseudo-rational optimists have no clue what you're talking about. Admit what this team is: Heartless, Soft, Impotent.

You can continue your rhetoric from your "Mr. Rational" soapbox...but you're just blind. period.
Uh... what exactly is the point of your post? (Other than to insult me, that is.)

Seriously - what are you saying? You DO want to make trades just to make trades? You want to trade Lundqvist? You like pickle relish on your hotdogs?

Clearly you are so much smarter than me that I can't comprehend the point you're making or how it pertains to what I wrote.

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Old
01-24-2010, 04:59 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
I disagree. They have a fair supporting cast now, and the team is still below .500. Strip off more assets (like Vinnie, Girardi, and Higgins), drop Gaborik from 21:00 to 18:00 minutes per night, and give Lundmark more nights off. Do all that and this team might well finish fifth worst in the league.
I can see what you're saying, but even minus those three players, you're still holding onto the two best players in our lineup; The ones who are truly responsible for the majority of our wins.

I think you can make the argument for both sides, but for me, I think this team lives and dies by Gaborik and Lundqvist, and I think two elite players is often enough to keep you out of the basement.

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01-24-2010, 05:20 PM
  #56
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I'm watching the re-airing of game 6 of the 2004 SC Finals, watching Torts command and motivate that lightning team leaves a lot to be desired for this Rangers team. I'm becoming a firm believer that Drury is holding this team back, he needs to go.

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01-24-2010, 05:27 PM
  #57
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I honestly think a lot of these players are "too comfortable". That is why I liked Torts being brought in.

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Old
01-24-2010, 06:15 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I honestly think a lot of these players are "too comfortable". That is why I liked Torts being brought in.
If there wasn't a salary cap, I'm sure Torts would've been able to change this much faster. Can't just get rid of the complacent players overnight unfortunately.

It's definitely something he's started to address this year, speaking of players feeling a sense of entitlement.

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Old
01-24-2010, 06:19 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
This is my realistic dream team for next season

Byfuglien Dubinsky Gaborik
Avery AA C. Armstrong (UFA)
Byers Drury Callahan
Tootoo (UFA) Boyle Ortmeyer (UFA) having a good season in SJ, very well may resign with them
Voros

Staal DZ
Redden Sanguinetti/Sauer/McD
Gilroy Sanguinetti/Sauer/McD
John Scott (UFA)


Anyone not in the lineup was traded!

ps. If Jack Johnson ever was/is/becomes truely available we need to go hard after him.
There is nothing that interests me in that team at all, in fact you could argue that that is a worst team then we have now. We add a little toughness in Buff an tootoo but the team just looks like garbage. First line I'm fine with that can't be a second line that is like a 3rd/4th line on any other team.

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01-24-2010, 06:21 PM
  #60
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No, I dont want to have to go through the whole new set of ******** that comes with finding a new starting goaltender.

For the people insulting each other, please grow up.

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Old
01-24-2010, 07:19 PM
  #61
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To NYR: Huet, Barker, Versteeg, Skille, and a 1st
To Chicago: Lundqvist and Kotalik


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Old
01-24-2010, 08:01 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
you're still holding onto the two best players in our lineup; The ones who are truly responsible for the majority of our wins.
There's no contesting that, for sure. At the same time, I think those two have all they can manage right now.

Increase the offensive strain by swapping Vinnie for Parenteau. Increase it further by replacing Kotalik with a ten-games-each rotation of Grachev/Dupont/Weise. Increase it further by slicing the ice time of Dubinsky and Callahan from 19:00 to 17:00.

Now jack up the defensive strain by replacing Girardi with Sauer and Higgins with Byers. Go further by benching Redden and Rozsival for ten games each, replacing them with Heikkinen or Sanguinetti.

Do this and I think the heroics of Lundqvist and Gaborik collapse. Lundqvist is good enough to keep you in the game every night, but he's not so good that he can steal games night in and out. Same with Gaborik.

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Old
01-24-2010, 08:11 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
There is nothing that interests me in that team at all, in fact you could argue that that is a worst team then we have now. We add a little toughness in Buff an tootoo but the team just looks like garbage. First line I'm fine with that can't be a second line that is like a 3rd/4th line on any other team.
No it's not. Subtract heartless floaters and add toughness and size. That's a better team.

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01-24-2010, 08:26 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
This is my realistic dream team for next season

Byfuglien Dubinsky Gaborik
Avery AA C. Armstrong (UFA)
Byers Drury Callahan
Tootoo (UFA) Boyle Ortmeyer (UFA) having a good season in SJ, very well may resign with them
Voros

Staal DZ
Redden Sanguinetti/Sauer/McD
Gilroy Sanguinetti/Sauer/McD
John Scott (UFA)

Anyone not in the lineup was traded!

ps. If Jack Johnson ever was/is/becomes truely available we need to go hard after him.
That team would be a bottom-dweller in this league. This is what I would want to see:

Kovalchuk(UFA)-Dubinsky-Gaborik -----Truly elite 1st line
Drury-Anisimov-Callahan ----Second line with a playmaker, Drury can take some faceoffs
Avery-Christensen-Armstrong(UFA) ----Good grinding and agitating line, adds toughness, re-unite Armstrong and Christensen from Pitt and Atlanta.
Byers/Weise-Boyle-Voros ----Big bodies who will forecheck and play down low
Brashear, Lisin

Staal-Gilroy ----Torts experimented with this in training camp, Gilroy's skating allows for him to play big minutes with ease
MDZ-Rozsival ---Rozsival can anchor this second pairing with MDZ
Sanguinetti/Sauer-Heikenen/Sauer ----Rookie 3rd pairing, can be swapped with Struds when they need a night off or Torts wants to sit them.
Strudwick --- Brings toughness and a great locker room guy.

Hank
Auld ----Hank needs a legit back-up who can play a solid 15-20 games so that he doesnt have to carry the entire load himself and stay fresh. Auld brings that and is a verteran back-up. Allows Chad Johnson to continue developing in the AHL for one more season.


Traded:
Girardi to Ottawa(once they lose Volchenkov to UFA) for 2nd '10, 3rd '11

Buried:
Redden

Not retained:
Prospal
Higgins

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Old
01-24-2010, 08:32 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
That team would be a bottom-dweller in this league. This is what I would want to see:

Kovalchuk(UFA)-Dubinsky-Gaborik -----Truly elite 1st line
Drury-Anisimov-Callahan ----Second line with a playmaker, Drury can take some faceoffs
Avery-Christensen-Armstrong(UFA) ----Good grinding and agitating line, adds toughness, re-unite Armstrong and Christensen from Pitt and Atlanta.
Byers/Weise-Boyle-Voros ----Big bodies who will forecheck and play down low
Brashear, Lisin

Staal-Gilroy ----Torts experimented with this in training camp, Gilroy's skating allows for him to play big minutes with ease
MDZ-Rozsival ---Rozsival can anchor this second pairing with MDZ
Sanguinetti/Sauer-Heikenen/Sauer ----Rookie 3rd pairing, can be swapped with Struds when they need a night off or Torts wants to sit them.
Strudwick --- Brings toughness and a great locker room guy.

Hank
Auld ----Hank needs a legit back-up who can play a solid 15-20 games so that he doesnt have to carry the entire load himself and stay fresh. Auld brings that and is a verteran back-up. Allows Chad Johnson to continue developing in the AHL for one more season.


Traded:
Girardi to Ottawa(once they lose Volchenkov to UFA) for 2nd '10, 3rd '11

Buried:
Redden

Not retained:
Prospal
Higgins

Thats an ok lineup. Not President trophy winning, but I think good for 4th or 5th in the conference. Through all of this I would still like to keep Girardi at a fair price. Girardi at 1.5 mil is a better deal than Rozsival at 5 mil, and if we're going to be running two rookie dmen AGAIN next year then we might as well commit to it.

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01-24-2010, 08:43 PM
  #66
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Thats an ok lineup. Not President trophy winning, but I think good for 4th or 5th in the conference. Through all of this I would still like to keep Girardi at a fair price. Girardi at 1.5 mil is a better deal than Rozsival at 5 mil, and if we're going to be running two rookie dmen AGAIN next year then we might as well commit to it.
Yeah, I agree but I think Girardi has some real value right now and that defensive corps will need some sort of veteran leadership in the lineup. I think Girardi will be making something like 3 million/season on his new contract.

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Old
01-24-2010, 08:47 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
That team would be a bottom-dweller in this league. This is what I would want to see:

Kovalchuk(UFA)-Dubinsky-Gaborik -----Truly elite 1st line
Drury-Anisimov-Callahan ----Second line with a playmaker, Drury can take some faceoffs
Avery-Christensen-Armstrong(UFA) ----Good grinding and agitating line, adds toughness, re-unite Armstrong and Christensen from Pitt and Atlanta.
Byers/Weise-Boyle-Voros ----Big bodies who will forecheck and play down low
Brashear, Lisin

Staal-Gilroy ----Torts experimented with this in training camp, Gilroy's skating allows for him to play big minutes with ease
MDZ-Rozsival ---Rozsival can anchor this second pairing with MDZ
Sanguinetti/Sauer-Heikenen/Sauer ----Rookie 3rd pairing, can be swapped with Struds when they need a night off or Torts wants to sit them.
Strudwick --- Brings toughness and a great locker room guy.

Hank
Auld ----Hank needs a legit back-up who can play a solid 15-20 games so that he doesnt have to carry the entire load himself and stay fresh. Auld brings that and is a verteran back-up. Allows Chad Johnson to continue developing in the AHL for one more season.


Traded:
Girardi to Ottawa(once they lose Volchenkov to UFA) for 2nd '10, 3rd '11

Buried:
Redden

Not retained:
Prospal
Higgins
That lineup is pretty flawed. After the 1st line you pretty much have the same problem you have this season, no secondary scoring. Christensen isn't a good 3rd liner IMO, if he's not in the top 6 he belongs in the minors. He may skate hard, but he's not hte best defensive player, nor is he the best hitter.

I'm pretty sure Strudwick and Sather clashed when he was leaving, I saw someone say that around here, not sure if there's any weight to it. Completely against Gilroy on the 1st pairing, if people thought Girardi was bad wait til Gilroy takes those minutes on.

A rookie 3rd pairing isn't going to fly either, do you remember how heavily Torts relied on the top 4 d-men last year when he had to go with Sauer and Potter as the 5th and 6th dmen?

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Old
01-24-2010, 08:49 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Yeah, I agree but I think Girardi has some real value right now and that defensive corps will need some sort of veteran leadership in the lineup. I think Girardi will be making something like 3 million/season on his new contract.
I dunno that if we force him to arbitration that he gets any more than say 2.2 or 2.3 million, but for 3 yeah we'd be better of dealing him. He's too slow to be anything more than a 3A, 2B.

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01-24-2010, 09:00 PM
  #69
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That lineup is pretty flawed. After the 1st line you pretty much have the same problem you have this season, no secondary scoring. Christensen isn't a good 3rd liner IMO, if he's not in the top 6 he belongs in the minors. He may skate hard, but he's not hte best defensive player, nor is he the best hitter.

I'm pretty sure Strudwick and Sather clashed when he was leaving, I saw someone say that around here, not sure if there's any weight to it. Completely against Gilroy on the 1st pairing, if people thought Girardi was bad wait til Gilroy takes those minutes on.

A rookie 3rd pairing isn't going to fly either, do you remember how heavily Torts relied on the top 4 d-men last year when he had to go with Sauer and Potter as the 5th and 6th dmen?
Of course it is flawed, but it is heading in the right direction. It actually has a good mold to it with a playmaker on each line and the lines actually have some sort of goal in mind with players who can compliment each other.

I really think a full offseason to work out and work on his weaknesses and Gilroy will come back and be a much better player next season. They need some semblance of toughness put into the lineup on more than the 4th line and they need to keep infusing youth as well, I think that team could get the job done although they would be thin on defense.

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Old
01-24-2010, 09:01 PM
  #70
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I dunno that if we force him to arbitration that he gets any more than say 2.2 or 2.3 million, but for 3 yeah we'd be better of dealing him. He's too slow to be anything more than a 3A, 2B.
I dont think Sather will only want to sign him for one year if he signs him because he will be an UFA after that year and will lose him for nothing possibly. I could foresee 9 million over 3 years.

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01-24-2010, 09:04 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I dont think Sather will only want to sign him for one year if he signs him because he will be an UFA after that year and will lose him for nothing possibly. I could foresee 9 million over 3 years.
That would be a terrible deal. I was under the impression that there was a 1 and a 2 year option for arbitration.

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01-24-2010, 09:04 PM
  #72
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Forgive me if this has been covered; as I read a few comments and skipped to the end. Anyone given any thought to the fact that Sather is the main probelm. Are they grooming Messier for the role?

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01-24-2010, 09:07 PM
  #73
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That would be a terrible deal. I was under the impression that there was a 1 and a 2 year option for arbitration.
You are taking away UFA years, the pricetag goes up for those years. I didnt think you could give a 2-year deal in arbitration, only one year.

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Old
01-24-2010, 09:08 PM
  #74
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Forgive me if this has been covered; as I read a few comments and skipped to the end. Anyone given any thought to the fact that Sather is the main probelm. Are they grooming Messier for the role?
Yes, Sather sucks but Messier may not be any better, he has no experience and is learning from the man we all despise.

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Old
01-24-2010, 09:11 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
You are taking away UFA years, the pricetag goes up for those years. I didnt think you could give a 2-year deal in arbitration, only one year.
Nah I get the concept, I just dont think he is worth that. Girardi isnt a dman that I think gets 4 mil on the market. hell, after seeing what Morris got, I dont think he gets 3 mil.

And I remember hearing something about the rangers choosing between a two and 1 year Arbitration deal with Zherdev.

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