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Next Years Cap Problems

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Old
01-26-2010, 03:41 PM
  #1
montreal
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Next Years Cap Problems

If the Habs buyout Laraque, then as of now we are looking at having 43,832,141 tied up in just 12 players. So if the cap were to remain the same at 56.8, then Gainey is looking at having about 13M of cap space for 9 or 10 players. Yikes.

On top of that we have 4 big contracts to factor in, 2 this summer and 2 for the following season. Pleks and Price (assuming Halak gets traded at some point) are going to big concerns this summer, and then it's Markov and A.Kostitsyn next year (A.Kosty will be an RFA at least).

So it's becoming clear that if no roster moves are made between now and the summer, then Gainey will likely need to move one of the D and hope that one of Subban/Weber/Carle can jump up full time as we will need some cheap contracts, in addition, a couple out of Pacioretty/D'Agostini/White/Pyatt/Stewart/Maxwell etc... will need to step up into full time roles on the cheap.

Which leads me to think that one of Hammer/Spacek/Gill have to go by this summer. If you let Mara and MAB walk and go with a D core of Markov-Subban Hammer-O'B Spacek-Gorges with a spare of say Carle, your still looking at over 18M tied up on defense. So losing Gill doesn't really help, although he could be the easily to move since he would have only 1 year left on his 2.25 cap hit. If they aren't going to play Spacek on the left side then get rid of him, if possible. Dropping Hammer would make the most sense cap wise but I fear what his loss would mean to our defense.

One things for sure, we better hope the cap doesn't go down next year.

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01-26-2010, 03:47 PM
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Just to chime in on the Defense dillemma -- I know Hammer makes a helluva lot but he also shoulders a helluva lot of the workload. If it's at all possible -- drop Spacek for nothing. His ~$4m would be a tremendous cash allowance for such a borderline defenseman

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01-26-2010, 03:49 PM
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With all the expected moves and an offer of 4.5 Mill for Pleks the Habs will need to clear and extra $3 million or so. They can get under the Cap by moving one of Hammer, Spacek or Andrei. My money is on this being Hamrlik's last season in Montreal.

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01-26-2010, 03:50 PM
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Garry Valk
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
If the Habs buyout Laraque, then as of now we are looking at having 43,832,141 tied up in just 12 players. So if the cap were to remain the same at 56.8, then Gainey is looking at having about 13M of cap space for 9 or 10 players. Yikes.

On top of that we have 4 big contracts to factor in, 2 this summer and 2 for the following season. Pleks and Price (assuming Halak gets traded at some point) are going to big concerns this summer, and then it's Markov and A.Kostitsyn next year (A.Kosty will be an RFA at least).

So it's becoming clear that if no roster moves are made between now and the summer, then Gainey will likely need to move one of the D and hope that one of Subban/Weber/Carle can jump up full time as we will need some cheap contracts, in addition, a couple out of Pacioretty/D'Agostini/White/Pyatt/Stewart/Maxwell etc... will need to step up into full time roles on the cheap.

Which leads me to think that one of Hammer/Spacek/Gill have to go by this summer. If you let Mara and MAB walk and go with a D core of Markov-Subban Hammer-O'B Spacek-Gorges with a spare of say Carle, your still looking at over 18M tied up on defense. So losing Gill doesn't really help, although he could be the easily to move since he would have only 1 year left on his 2.25 cap hit. If they aren't going to play Spacek on the left side then get rid of him, if possible. Dropping Hammer would make the most sense cap wise but I fear what his loss would mean to our defense.

One things for sure, we better hope the cap doesn't go down next year.
If the opportunity to acquire a right handed d-man arises, and Gainey is smart, he will deal Hamrlik now as he still has decent value, bring in a cheaper righty, and then have much more to work with. And if I was a betting man, I'd say that's what happens. Subtract BG, Mara, and Hamrlik, and suddenly everything seems reasonable again.

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01-26-2010, 03:51 PM
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We need Hamrlik as he'd be the perfect partner for Subban next year, so I hope he's still a Hab next year.

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01-26-2010, 03:52 PM
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I remember reading the cap is supposed to raise by about 1.5 M next year... It doesn't completely resolve our cap problems but it gives us a little bit of room. I'd love to move Spacek but, unless someone believes he's really affected by playing on his worst side, nobody will touch him with a 10 foot pole. Hamrlik is certainly moveable but as you said : How will our D looks without him? Very poor IMHO... I hope we'll get lucky and be able to move one of our sucky contracts, but I doubt it. We might have to move something good to clean that mess...

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01-26-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Just to chime in on the Defense dillemma -- I know Hammer makes a helluva lot but he also shoulders a helluva lot of the workload. If it's at all possible -- drop Spacek for nothing. His ~$4m would be a tremendous cash allowance for such a borderline defenseman
Spacek was the Sabres top D last year, so one would think that the problems have been more to do with him playing on his off side. Some defensemen have said they just can't play on their off side, I know Rivet complained about it when he was a Hab.

One has to wonder why the team would go out and acquire all LD's though. Still something will need to be done this summer cause we just have too much cap space tied up with our D.

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01-26-2010, 03:53 PM
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13 M for 9-10 players may not sound like much, but most of the upper part of the lineup, the high-paying slots are already set. The Habs need to re-sign Plekanec and Price (and Price will probably make less cap hit than he does now, even if his actual salary goes up, because bonuses) and you can fill the rest of the lineup with fillers. The Habs will have a top-6, top-4 D-men, and goaltending sewn up and even have a number of lower-pairing guys to work with. No doubt they hope some of the Hamilton kids will be better able to make the jump.

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01-26-2010, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
We need Hamrlik as he'd be the perfect partner for Subban next year, so I hope he's still a Hab next year.
I'd prefer it as well but the numbers won't work. Hamrlik goes and Spacek goes back to the left side and works with Subban.

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01-26-2010, 03:55 PM
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I would try hard to move Spacek this off season.I don't like the signing and he has 2 more years left on the cap compared to Hamrlik's 1 year.In 2 years with Hamrlik gone also Gill will be gone and should save us some around 7.5 million and we could focus and extending Markov.

But you are right,Gainey will have to work real hard or we might be looking at lots of young players making the minimum.I believe after next year Pouliot will need a new contract as well and if he keeps going at this pace we are looking at 4 million a year for him

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01-26-2010, 04:01 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Valk View Post
If the opportunity to acquire a right handed d-man arises, and Gainey is smart, he will deal Hamrlik now as he still has decent value, bring in a cheaper righty, and then have much more to work with. And if I was a betting man, I'd say that's what happens. Subtract BG, Mara, and Hamrlik, and suddenly everything seems reasonable again.
Buying out BGL saves 1M but then you need to replace him. Say it's Ryan White, well his cap hit is 850K, so you don't really save too much. Mara's cap hit is 1.675M, say Subban replaces him, we save about 800K. Now moving Hammer and his 5.5M would be big but it would create a big hole on defense unless they somehow get someone else to fill the #2 job, which imo is going to be very tough to do without overpaying.

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Originally Posted by Harmony View Post
I remember reading the cap is supposed to raise by about 1.5 M next year... It doesn't completely resolve our cap problems but it gives us a little bit of room. I'd love to move Spacek but, unless someone believes he's really affected by playing on his worst side, nobody will touch him with a 10 foot pole. Hamrlik is certainly moveable but as you said : How will our D looks without him? Very poor IMHO... I hope we'll get lucky and be able to move one of our sucky contracts, but I doubt it. We might have to move something good to clean that mess...
I know that Bettman told the GM's at the mid season meetings that the cap is expected to be around the same, give or take 1-2M up or down. So as long as revenue stays the same, the cap should remain right around the same, but still is going to be tough.

The real problem becomes what kind of money will need to be put aside for Markov after next season.

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01-26-2010, 04:04 PM
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Patty Roy
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Montreal....pretty hilarious you just posted this. I was about to post something along these exact same lines.

I fail to see how we can keep Plekanec unless we dump at least one of Hamrlik/Spacek. In a perfect world i would try and dump Gill as well.

The more things move along, the more i'm thinking we kind of have to keep both Price and Halak...so obviously both will be seeking significant raises next season. I'm still open to trading either one, but the return has to be real good.

On defence, i think that Subban/Weber/Carle are all going to be capable of playing top 6 minutes, and will help in giving us a RH shot. But realistically i only see one of them making our team full time.

On the UFA front...we need to keep Plekanec and Bergeron if he is super cheap, but the others can go.

I think some of our biggest needs going into the summer will be to address the lack of toughness in our lineup and to improve our bottom 6 forwards.

My personal plan...and its in the early stages and rough...would be to do something along these lines starting at the deadline.

Trade Hamrlik to Vancouver for a guy like Shane O'Brien (if the cap numbers work for them).

Trade Gill to a contender for a pick.


Re-sign Plekanec (roughly $4.5 per) and our RFAs. Price and Halak are tough to pinpoint but i set aside $6 million total for both (total).

Bulk up the bottom 6 by signing Evgeny Artyukhin and Brian McGratton. Both should come in at around $900k per season each.

I've got something like this:

Mike Cammalleri-Tomas Plekanec-Andrei Kostitsyn
Benoit Pouliot-Scott Gomez-Brian Gionta
Max Pacioretty-Maxim Lapierre-Evgeny Artyukhin
Travis Moen-Ben Maxwell-Ryan White
Brian McGratton

Andrei Markov-Ryan O'Byrne
Jaroslav Spacek-PK Subban
Shane O'Brien-Josh Gorges
MA Bergeron

Carey Price
Jaroslav Halak

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01-26-2010, 04:08 PM
  #13
montreal
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I would try hard to move Spacek this off season.I don't like the signing and he has 2 more years left on the cap compared to Hamrlik's 1 year.In 2 years with Hamrlik gone also Gill will be gone and should save us some around 7.5 million and we could focus and extending Markov.

But you are right,Gainey will have to work real hard or we might be looking at lots of young players making the minimum.I believe after next year Pouliot will need a new contract as well and if he keeps going at this pace we are looking at 4 million a year for him
I liked the Spacek signing, he was very good for the Sabres, I just think he needs to be on the left side.

As for Pouliot, I can't see him keeping up this pace, but no way he gets 4M, he's got a 803K cap hit now and can't go to arbritration yet, so even if he rips it up, I don't think he'd be looking at 4M.

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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
On the UFA front...we need to keep Plekanec and Bergeron if he is super cheap, but the others can go.

Trade Hamrlik to Vancouver for a guy like Shane O'Brien (if the cap numbers work for them).

Trade Gill to a contender for a pick.
.
I would be suprised if MAB would come back on the cheap though, which is why I didn't include him.

Then the problem with trades, is just that, how many trades have we seen in the NHL this year? Not many, going to be tough to move a couple contracts off the books as several teams are going to be in cap trouble.

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01-26-2010, 04:11 PM
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I'm not the littlest bit worried.

All our players are more or less marketable.

Look at what the Rags did this summer and consider that they were capped last season.

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01-26-2010, 04:16 PM
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I would be suprised if MAB would come back on the cheap though, which is why I didn't include him.

Then the problem with trades, is just that, how many trades have we seen in the NHL this year? Not many, going to be tough to move a couple contracts off the books as several teams are going to be in cap trouble.
Well i just kind of threw MAB in there...basically i think Gainey would want a veteran 7th d-man that would come in around 1 million. If MAB wants to try greener pastures, then more power too him. It would be nice if that 7th d-man was capable of playing on the PP though.

I don't think we should have much trouble trading Gill for a pick. I'm not convinced its what Gainey/Martin want...but if it is i would think that we could at least get a 4th for him at the deadline.

Hamrlik...well its all fantasy talk. With one year left on his deal he will be very tough to move unless we take equal salary coming back...but if thats the case then what's the point? But if there is an opportunity to deal him for a decent, tough, mid-20s guy like O'Brien then i'd do it in a heartbeat.

I sort of agree with you on Spacek...i'm willing to give him a go again next year but on the left side. His contract isn't all that bad if you believe that he can bounce back.

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01-26-2010, 04:18 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I liked the Spacek signing, he was very good for the Sabres, I just think he needs to be on the left side.

As for Pouliot, I can't see him keeping up this pace, but no way he gets 4M, he's got a 803K cap hit now and can't go to arbritration yet, so even if he rips it up, I don't think he'd be looking at 4M.



I would be suprised if MAB would come back on the cheap though, which is why I didn't include him.

Then the problem with trades, is just that, how many trades have we seen in the NHL this year? Not many, going to be tough to move a couple contracts off the books as several teams are going to be in cap trouble.
Well we did see some improvements in Spacek in the last 2 games,probably his best 2 as a Hab hope he could keep it up but IMO I think a guy like Hamrlik would be better to help young players like Weber and Subban to develop.

As for Pouliot I hope you are right,but we are seeing some crazy contracts given out by GM's,if the kid keeps the pace this year and next I think we are looking at around 3.5 4,that's what AK. is making

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01-26-2010, 04:20 PM
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It will be tight...being able to bury Laraque contract in Sweden (save 500k) would be nice. Maybe the NHL cap will go up a bit too?? Might be lowballing Plek a bit at 4.75m, but we dunno what he's looking for, maybe he'd take that at 1-2 years to establish a better stat sheet for a big contract. Price could get more than 3.5m too but it's hard to gauge what he's looking for, 3.5m for 1-2 years sounds ok.

Anyways the point is..summer 2010 is not a HUGE problem unless either Price or Plekanec is looking for BIG MONEY right now. We will have to start with a barebones roster though unless there is a break on a cap rise or somehow moving Laraque off cap (avoiding buyout).

2011 there's a bit more flexibility.. Hamrlik could get a lower contract if they re-sign him, maybe Markov is a candidate for one of those 11 year cap friendly ones, could lower his cap hit.
www.capgeek.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by "www.capgeek.com
FORWARDS
Scott Gomez — $7,357,142
Mike Cammalleri — $6,000,000
Brian Gionta — $5,000,000
* Tomas Plekanec — $4,750,000
Andrei Kostitsyn — $3,250,000
Travis Moen — $1,500,000
* Benoit Pouliot — $1,000,000
Max Pacioretty — $910,000
* Sergei Kostitsyn — $900,000
* Mathieu Darche — $800,000
* Maxim Lapierre — $800,000
* Matt D'Agostini — $600,000
* Laraque Buyout — $500,000
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov — $5,750,000
Roman Hamrlik — $5,500,000
Jaroslav Spacek — $3,833,333
Hal Gill — $2,250,000
Josh Gorges — $1,100,000
Ryan O'Byrne — $941,666
GOALTENDERS
* Carey Price — $3,500,000
* Cedric Desjardins — $600,000
BUYOUTS
NONE
LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS
NONE
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER SIZE 21
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $56,842,141
BONUSES $0
CAP SPACE $-42,141

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Old
01-26-2010, 04:20 PM
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an entire thread on this

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=718149

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01-26-2010, 04:24 PM
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Well i just kind of threw MAB in there...basically i think Gainey would want a veteran 7th d-man that would come in around 1 million. If MAB wants to try greener pastures, then more power too him. It would be nice if that 7th d-man was capable of playing on the PP though.

I don't think we should have much trouble trading Gill for a pick. I'm not convinced its what Gainey/Martin want...but if it is i would think that we could at least get a 4th for him at the deadline.

Hamrlik...well its all fantasy talk. With one year left on his deal he will be very tough to move unless we take equal salary coming back...but if thats the case then what's the point? But if there is an opportunity to deal him for a decent, tough, mid-20s guy like O'Brien then i'd do it in a heartbeat.

I sort of agree with you on Spacek...i'm willing to give him a go again next year but on the left side. His contract isn't all that bad if you believe that he can bounce back.
I can see them going with a veteran as a 7th D. As for the PP, if say Subban makes the team next year, then with Markov/Subban/Hammer/Spaeck they should be fine on the PP. Subban has a bomb as well.

Gill I like the idea of moving him for a pick just not at the deadline, we need him for the playoffs (assuming we make them) but the problem with moving him is that he doesn't free up much cap space. That said Gainey has removed all the slow players on the team to date, leaving Gill as the last of the slowpokes.

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01-26-2010, 04:24 PM
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If we can sign Plekanec + Price for less than 7M$, we can keep Hammer + Specak + Gill. If not...

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01-26-2010, 04:25 PM
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id drop spacek

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01-26-2010, 04:33 PM
  #22
montreal
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Well we did see some improvements in Spacek in the last 2 games,probably his best 2 as a Hab hope he could keep it up but IMO I think a guy like Hamrlik would be better to help young players like Weber and Subban to develop.

As for Pouliot I hope you are right,but we are seeing some crazy contracts given out by GM's,if the kid keeps the pace this year and next I think we are looking at around 3.5 4,that's what AK. is making
I like Hammer to work with the young guys, as I got to think we will see more youth on D next year.

As for BP he has no leverage (other then an offer sheet) Kostitsyn had close to 30 goals, and 53 pts. He got 3.25 but that was for 3 years, so I wouldn't mind if BP got a big raise if we locked him up for a few years (just not 4M or close to it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
It will be tight...being able to bury Laraque contract in Sweden (save 500k) would be nice. Maybe the NHL cap will go up a bit too?? Might be lowballing Plek a bit at 4.75m, but we dunno what he's looking for, maybe he'd take that at 1-2 years to establish a better stat sheet for a big contract. Price could get more than 3.5m too but it's hard to gauge what he's looking for, 3.5m for 1-2 years sounds ok.

Anyways the point is..summer 2010 is not a HUGE problem unless either Price or Plekanec is looking for BIG MONEY right now. We will have to start with a barebones roster though unless there is a break on a cap rise or somehow moving Laraque off cap (avoiding buyout).

2011 there's a bit more flexibility.. Hamrlik could get a lower contract if they re-sign him, maybe Markov is a candidate for one of those 11 year cap friendly ones, could lower his cap hit.
A buyout of Laraque will save 1M since you can spread it over 2 years, so he would cost us 500K next year and in 2011-2012. But you have to replace him, so that 1M will likely get eaten up mostly by his replacement.

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01-26-2010, 04:34 PM
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I don't think it'll be that hard for Gainey to move one of Spacek and Hamrlik. A defense of

Markov-O'Byrne
Hamrlik-Gorges
Gill-Subban

Is good IMO...

Also since Darche has come through, I think Moen is now expendable as well.

Our top 6 is set IMO:

Cammy-Plekanec-AK
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta

Then we create the bottom 6 with:

Pacioretty-Lapierre-D'Agostini
SK-Maxwell/Leblanc-Darche

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01-26-2010, 04:35 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
If the Habs buyout Laraque, then as of now we are looking at having 43,832,141 tied up in just 12 players. So if the cap were to remain the same at 56.8, then Gainey is looking at having about 13M of cap space for 9 or 10 players. Yikes.

On top of that we have 4 big contracts to factor in, 2 this summer and 2 for the following season. Pleks and Price (assuming Halak gets traded at some point) are going to big concerns this summer, and then it's Markov and A.Kostitsyn next year (A.Kosty will be an RFA at least).
What kind of money do you expect for Plekanec and Price?


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01-26-2010, 04:37 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I don't think it'll be that hard for Gainey to move one of Spacek and Hamrlik. A defense of

Markov-O'Byrne
Hamrlik-Gorges
Gill-Subban

Is good IMO...

Also since Darche has come through, I think Moen is now expendable as well.

Our top 6 is set IMO:

Cammy-Plekanec-AK
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta

Then we create the bottom 6 with:

Pacioretty-Lapierre-D'Agostini
SK-Maxwell/Leblanc-Darche
Darche has nothing to do with Moen, also I wouldn't say he's made anyone expendable after just 3 games.

And if our bottom 6 contains D'Ago/Maxwell/Leblanc/Darche yikes.

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