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Old
01-26-2010, 05:45 PM
  #51
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Couldn't we just waive Spacek and / or Gill at least after the season?

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01-26-2010, 05:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Habsrichard View Post
Another option that hasn't been mentioned is moving Andrei K. After next season, he'll be an UFA and may be looking for a raise which Montreal couldn't afford if they sign Plek. Of course, there really doesn't appear to be anyone to replace him, but there's also no one to replace Pleks at this point. Moving Andrei and signing Plek's gives you Gionta/Gomez/Poulit and Camm/Plek's/??? as your top 6. The return for Andrei could potentially help solve other problems but I really have no idea what his value is, so I won't even guess

Of course in this scenario, you are really counting on Pouliot playing up to his current level as well as a young player stepping up into a top 6 role.

Edit: And this would be assuming Andrei comes back and plays well.
AK will be an RFA after next season. Arbitration eligible, but an RFA nonetheless.

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01-26-2010, 05:54 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
AK will be an RFA after next season. Arbitration eligible, but an RFA nonetheless.
Oops, thanks for the correction. I checked on one of the cap sights and still messed it up!

Either way, it would free some cap space.

And I should mention, I really like AK, I'm just not sure how you can fit the current top 6 into the cap.

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01-26-2010, 05:56 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Habsrichard View Post
Moving Andrei K. may be a reasonable option..
No.

Why would you move Andrei K. when you can simply move Spacek. They make the same money but Spacek is far less useful.

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01-26-2010, 06:24 PM
  #55
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I don't think we'll be in that bad of a shape. I don't think too many players will get big raises.
Plekanec will get one, but I don't think Price will get a significant raise. With bonuses, his hit is already at 2.2M. I don't see him getting 4M, his play certainly doesn't warrant it.

I don't think a trade is a necessity really.

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Old
01-26-2010, 07:25 PM
  #56
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I admittedly don't pay alot of attention to the defence, but if Spacek is that bad on his wrong side, why not play him on his good side? I mean, unless he's playing with Markov, I think it would be in our interest to have him on his good side, no matter who his partner is.

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01-26-2010, 08:27 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Spacek and Gill arent movable IMO.. Hamrlik should logically be traded this summer..
Problem with Spacek is that he signed after 35 thus even if he would retire his cap hit would remain. I don't really like the idea of signing 35+ to long term contract. A bit risky.
Gill I don't see him being in demand. Sorry.
Anyway it will be fun to see how whoever is in command will work this out.
Loosing Pleks would suck badly, I can't beleive they'll let him go. This team needs players that were raised in the organization.

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01-26-2010, 11:11 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
that's right... but the unfortunate reality is that the more fitting question might actually be "how do we prevent from getting worse while staying under the cap".

If we can't/don't re-sign Plekanec, and the cap doesn't go up significantly, we'll be in a position of trying to find a capable top 6 centre at a discount price... given that we had to trade for Gomez to get one last summer, that tells you how difficult that task is, not too mention that there simply aren't many decent options available at Centre this coming offseason, Pleks is definitely one of the best (behind only Marleau i imagine).

Losing the top scoring forward from a team near the bottom of the league in Goals for is not exactly the path to improvement... we would need the young players to step up AND for the older players (especially on Def with hamrlik, spacek, gill, all well past their prime) not to regress to quickly, just to stay at the same ~500% level...
maybe its time for the dreaded rebuild. Its just not worth it to continue to be this bubble team considering you are strapped right up to the cap. There is very little room for internal improvement right now and little money to spend for external. And BG's track record for trades isn't exactly stellar either especially dealing from a disadvantage like he is.

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Old
01-27-2010, 12:06 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Darche has nothing to do with Moen, also I wouldn't say he's made anyone expendable after just 3 games.

And if our bottom 6 contains D'Ago/Maxwell/Leblanc/Darche yikes.
If our last line is filled with yougn propects than I'm not interested. If we have Maxwell, Max pac and Moen on the 3rd line I think it would be pretty interesting.

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01-27-2010, 01:18 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
maybe its time for the dreaded rebuild. Its just not worth it to continue to be this bubble team considering you are strapped right up to the cap. There is very little room for internal improvement right now and little money to spend for external. And BG's track record for trades isn't exactly stellar either especially dealing from a disadvantage like he is.
this is more and more what it is looking like.

just hope that the Molson's make the move at GM before any more damage is done.

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Old
01-27-2010, 03:20 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
this is more and more what it is looking like.

just hope that the Molson's make the move at GM before any more damage is done.
Since it became pretty obvious the Molson bros would buy the team once S. Savard and his group backed out, I'm gonna go out and say the bros missed their shot. Gionta, Cammy and Gomez are already locking up this team's salary cap. If they wanted to replace Gainey, they should have manifested their intentions to M.Gillett or at least told him "Hey, put some handcuffs on Gainey and don't let him sign big contracts without our approval".

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Old
01-27-2010, 07:38 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
This is an interesting post, noone has brought up the idea of Plekanec leaving and using Pouliot at center. Personally i think size at center is overated, and would love for us to keep the Plek/Gomez 1-2 punch.

However if Pleks wants 6 million, I think we might be best advised to look elsewhere. We could then roll the smurf line, and then have Pouliot centering the kosty bros. However we would certainly be a much weaker team, but we'd have money...

I'm hoping we can get Pleks to sign for Marc Savard money...

With Plekanec/Spacek out (I agree with the poster named montreal: "... Spacek was the Sabres top D last year...", so imo, he would be moveable during the summer) + Pouliot at C and Subban at D, this team would have enough money to explore better options than Sergei Kostitsyn on the top2 lines. Plekanec is a hard worker and I always like him (heck! I would give him the C before giving it to Cammalleri!) but, though I somewhat agree with you regarding "... size at center is overrated...", I think that signing Plekanec to a long terms 4-5M$/season contract would be a mistake for a team like Montreal – a team known to be "easy to play against".

=> As I mentioned in my previous post, it would result in 11-13M$ invested in two undersized (Gomez + Plekanec) centres for many years but it would also imply 4 undersized (Gomez, Plekanec, Gionta and Cammalleri) players on our first two lines for years to come.

Factor in the facts that...

(1) Gainey hinted at moving Pouliot at C (see previous link)
(2) Pouliot played C before; in fact he mentioned "... je peux dire que je préfère jouer au centre..." – "... I prefer playing at C..." (*1)
(3) Plekanec will probably test the market this upcoming July

... and the "Plekanec out" scenario becomes more than possible.

That being mentioned, I am willing to admit a strong bias in favour of size/grits so maybe Gainey/next GM will decide to go down, for years to come, the Smurf road!


(*1) Source (in French): http://www.ckac.com/hockey/nouvelles...t-1848761.html

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Old
01-27-2010, 07:46 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Hopefully less then 7M combined. I figure Pleks somewhere around 4.75 to 5 give or take. Price it's harder to say, will they lock him up for a few years? I think a lot depends on what Gainey does with Halak. If you keep Halak as your starter and Price as the backup (not saying this will be the case) but at least then perhaps you can get Price on the cheap for say a two year deal. (not saying 500K of course, but less then the 2.2M he could make now)

Imo the hardest contracts to guage at going to be Price this summer and Markov next, as I could see him getting a huge payday, 8M a year perhaps, unless the Habs try and do something funny like other teams are doing like Hossa's contract.
No way get Price locked up cheaper than he is now. He is a premier young goalie. Many teams offer 3m plus and give up a pick to try to Penner like steal him from us.

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01-27-2010, 07:48 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
this is more and more what it is looking like.

just hope that the Molson's make the move at GM before any more damage is done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bdOJ08AH48

According to Geoff Molson, this past Saturday, BG isn't going anywhere. Its right towards the end.

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:25 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
No way get Price locked up cheaper than he is now. He is a premier young goalie. Many teams offer 3m plus and give up a pick to try to Penner like steal him from us.
Price is among the hardest contracts to estimate. On one hand, even contract on his current cap hit would be major increase (salary increasing from 850k to 2 million), so his current cap his isn't probably the best base for evaluation.

Looking at young goalies, Lehtonen earned 3 million last season (1 year deal, history of injuries), Rask signed for 1.25 million (below his ELC cap hit, but truly unproven at that point), LeClaire got 3.8 million, Ward earned 2.6 million cap hit contract coming from the Conn Smythe (escalating salary 2.0 - 2.5 - 3.5 million).

So there is reason to believe Price could get 3 million contract, but I would assume Gainey would try to get him sign for short term (2 years?) on lower cap hit (2.5-3.0 contract or even lower)

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:25 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
I wouldn't call Price contract "big" since the guy doesn't have numbers that can allow him to ask for more than 3M$. I expect Montreal to sign him for a contract that would end while he is still 25 years old (RFA) and then sign him long term... but only if he reaches expectations.
Not big in dollars, big as in one of the most important contracts to lockup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
maybe its time for the dreaded rebuild. Its just not worth it to continue to be this bubble team considering you are strapped right up to the cap. There is very little room for internal improvement right now and little money to spend for external. And BG's track record for trades isn't exactly stellar either especially dealing from a disadvantage like he is.
There's no way the Habs are going to rebuild imo, unless Gainey is removed and somehow most of our heavy contracts are moved and that seems very unlikely, at least to me.

The Habs have played maybe 2 games this year with a full lineup and most of the injuries have been in our top 6.

As for Gainey's trades, the Rivet trade, the Garon trade, the Lats trade, the Grabovski trade. Granted the Ribs trade was bad but he's had more better trades then not. I still think the Gomez trade was a good one, since Higgins looks like ****, so while Gomer is way overpaid, he's still a good player and along with Pyatt all we lost was McDonagh who was a couple years away from the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viau View Post
Couldn't we just waive Spacek and / or Gill at least after the season?
That would send a good message to future UFA's

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:25 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I don't think it'll be that hard for Gainey to move one of Spacek and Hamrlik. A defense of

Markov-O'Byrne
Hamrlik-Gorges
Gill-Subban

Is good IMO...

Also since Darche has come through, I think Moen is now expendable as well.

Our top 6 is set IMO:

Cammy-Plekanec-AK
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta

Then we create the bottom 6 with:

Pacioretty-Lapierre-D'Agostini
SK-Maxwell/Leblanc-Darche
How is Moen expendable? He is a very good bottom 6 guy that plays tough and will drop the gloves plus he kills penalities, if anything we need another guy like him.

Darche is not Moen, he's an offensive player in a big body, he is not an ideal bottom 6 player.

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:32 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How is Moen expendable? He is a very good bottom 6 guy that plays tough and will drop the gloves plus he kills penalities, if anything we need another guy like him.

Darche is not Moen, he's an offensive player in a big body, he is not an ideal bottom 6 player.
im sorry but comparing a 33 year old Darche who has played a total of 2 good games in his life (his past two) cannot compare to Moen who is in his prime and does everything that is asked of him and does it well

btw im agreeing with u just coudnt find the orginal post so i commented on yours

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:33 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
If the Habs buyout Laraque, then as of now we are looking at having 43,832,141 tied up in just 12 players. So if the cap were to remain the same at 56.8, then Gainey is looking at having about 13M of cap space for 9 or 10 players. Yikes.

On top of that we have 4 big contracts to factor in, 2 this summer and 2 for the following season. Pleks and Price (assuming Halak gets traded at some point) are going to big concerns this summer, and then it's Markov and A.Kostitsyn next year (A.Kosty will be an RFA at least).

So it's becoming clear that if no roster moves are made between now and the summer, then Gainey will likely need to move one of the D and hope that one of Subban/Weber/Carle can jump up full time as we will need some cheap contracts, in addition, a couple out of Pacioretty/D'Agostini/White/Pyatt/Stewart/Maxwell etc... will need to step up into full time roles on the cheap.

Which leads me to think that one of Hammer/Spacek/Gill have to go by this summer. If you let Mara and MAB walk and go with a D core of Markov-Subban Hammer-O'B Spacek-Gorges with a spare of say Carle, your still looking at over 18M tied up on defense. So losing Gill doesn't really help, although he could be the easily to move since he would have only 1 year left on his 2.25 cap hit. If they aren't going to play Spacek on the left side then get rid of him, if possible. Dropping Hammer would make the most sense cap wise but I fear what his loss would mean to our defense.

One things for sure, we better hope the cap doesn't go down next year.
I think the solution is that one of Hamrlik, Spacek or Gill will be moved by July 1st.

Other than that we are not in bash shape cap wise. Around 40 mil with 9 of 11 key spots filled(excepot for Pleks and Price/Halak) and around 16 mil to spend on depth. Price should cost no more than around 3 mil for a couple years or 4 mil for 4-5. Pleks should be around 4 if you compare to Krejci and D.Roy. That leaves 8-9 mil for 6-7 depth players(some may be Hamilton guys making the jump) plus 2-3 mil room to trade during the season.

We'll probably have a cheap veteran come in and challenge

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:36 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Viau View Post
Couldn't we just waive Spacek and / or Gill at least after the season?
Why? I'm sure there are teams that would take them. Spacek is a good d-man if he can play his side and Gill is excellent on PK and doesn't have a big salary.

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:41 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
maybe its time for the dreaded rebuild. Its just not worth it to continue to be this bubble team considering you are strapped right up to the cap. There is very little room for internal improvement right now and little money to spend for external. And BG's track record for trades isn't exactly stellar either especially dealing from a disadvantage like he is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Cammy-Plek-Gionta-Pouliot-Gomez (except for his start), are all doing their job pretty well. A.Kost was doing good before going down too.
Hamrlik-Gorges-Markov are a good top 3.

So the top half of our team is playing well. Top 6 Forwards and Top3 Ds are doing their part.
Problem comes from the bottom part of our team. S.Kost is the only player in the bottom 6 that's really any good, and I don't understand why Martin puts Moen on 2nd before him.
Metro had a good start that cooled off, Lappy, Bergeron, and those extra filling players like Maxwell/Darche aren't going to help tremendously.
Spacek is probably playing his worst season so far, and it coincides with him having to play on the right side.
Although Gill can be useful with his reach, he's just too slow, Mara hasn't been solid and O'Byrne is still developing.

So what we need is better depth. We have a good top half, now we have to improve the support cast. We don't have a checking line, nor do we have an energy/aggressive one. That's the problem.
We put the 6 players's names in a bag, draw them out and that's the lines. They have no identity.

As for the bottom 3 Ds, at the least, Gill and Mara need to be replaced by quicker right handed Dman.

Yes, we're tied up with the cap, but we don't really need to go after other top players. Price tag for such players is quite low. So it's not so bad.
This of course depends on how much Plek will ask for.

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:53 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bdOJ08AH48

According to Geoff Molson, this past Saturday, BG isn't going anywhere. Its right towards the end.


well, maybe we luck out and BG steps down on his own this summer...

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01-27-2010, 08:59 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
Since it became pretty obvious the Molson bros would buy the team once S. Savard and his group backed out, I'm gonna go out and say the bros missed their shot. Gionta, Cammy and Gomez are already locking up this team's salary cap. If they wanted to replace Gainey, they should have manifested their intentions to M.Gillett or at least told him "Hey, put some handcuffs on Gainey and don't let him sign big contracts without our approval".
You actually think Gainey signed all those players without the approval of the Molson??..
Of course he had their approval.

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Old
01-27-2010, 08:59 AM
  #74
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Doens't Spacek have a bullet proof contract? with a NTC, NMC and even if he retires he gets paid?

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01-27-2010, 09:09 AM
  #75
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Doens't Spacek have a bullet proof contract? with a NTC, NMC and even if he retires he gets paid?
I don't think so, according to this thread, here is the list of Habs players with a NTC/NMC in their contracts.

Georges Laraque
Roman Hamrlik
Andrei Markov

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=5839539&postcount=1

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