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Fire Sather! Fire Sather Rally TODAY At 5pm

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Old
01-28-2010, 10:35 PM
  #1
bobbop
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Fire Sather! Fire Sather Rally TODAY At 5pm

Continued from part one: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=708662

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
See, I don't understand your delay here. You're absolutely right, the situation he inherited was awful. There is no denying that. But from the very outset, he made the situation worse and worse. And of the nine homegrown players on the team, they're basically all role players except Lundqvist (and I'm sure your familiar with the stance many, myself included, hold when it comes to giving credit to Sather for Henrik). After a decade, that's all there is to show for it. I like Marc Staal, I like Brandon Dubinsky, I LOVE Ryan Callahan...but that isn't enough. Not even close. By the standards other teams are setting, the core we have is as average as the entire team is, if even that.

Hiring him was a mistake of epic proportions. You know, I think I was 14 years old when he was hired, and I remember posting on a another message board when it happened that he would set this team back years, and that he was a disaster waiting to happen. His drafting record in Edmonton from 1983-2000 is laughably bad. Of course, almost everyone else was overjoyed and excited, blinded by this *******'s reputation, and trashed me for being against it. 10 years later, I really can't believe that he's still here. It's really depressing, but not the least bit surprising.

He's a cancer that has crippled this franchise for a decade. Time to end it. The sooner, the better. Glad that you've finally come around.
I can't agree he made the situation worse and worse. Look at the player developement pipeline. The Wolf Pack won the Calder Cup in 2000 and the Rangers had nothing to show from that team. Nothing. The only asset of consequence that Sather inherited was the rights to Lundqvist. (and you are right, he doesn't deserve credit for that)

Hiring Sather wasn't a mistake of epic proportions. He rebuilt the organization. He brought in a lot of good people. Slats drafted and built the right way but now that his guys are here, there are not enough results. Unfortunately a lot of the fault here for things going wrong in the early 2000s belings to drafts led by Don Maloney.

You can't judge Sather by his drafting record in Edmonton unless you are willing to give him credit for 5 Stanley Cups too. Some of his drafting and trading was legendary. It's a little harder to hit in the draft when you are picking last in every round every year.

And he knows how to kiss his bosses ass, a skill that many of us are lacking.

I like your posts but you really have no idea what a crippled franchise is. You should have been here in the 1960's or 1980's. While this hasn't been great, it hasn't been a disaster. I can remember a few seasons when the Rangers were effectively eliminated form playoff contention by Christmas. Sure it would have been great to win the Lottery and draft a Crosby or Malkin but we didn't. And the hard truth is that there are only 4 or 5 players picked in the last 10 years that were really woirth tanking for. Would you tank for a Cam Barker or a Jordan Staal?

Sather did a good job here. Not good enough. AMFYOYO.


Last edited by nyr2k2: 01-29-2010 at 11:10 AM.
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01-28-2010, 10:37 PM
  #2
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
In other news... On March 6th Sather trades for Kovy so no one came to protest.
in other news, no trades can be made on march 6th

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01-28-2010, 11:21 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Hiring Sather wasn't a mistake of epic proportions. He rebuilt the organization. He brought in a lot of good people. Slats drafted and built the right way but now that his guys are here, there are not enough results. Unfortunately a lot of the fault here for things going wrong in the early 2000s belings to drafts led by Don Maloney.
But I don't think he did build the right way. If he had, then the results would be different. And while Don Maloney maybe directly at fault for some bad moves, Sather deserves the blame for that just as he deserves the credit for bringing in Gordie Clark and Jeff Gorton and those guys.


Quote:
You can't judge Sather by his drafting record in Edmonton unless you are willing to give him credit for 5 Stanley Cups too. Some of his drafting and trading was legendary. It's a little harder to hit in the draft when you are picking last in every round every year.
I give him some credit, mainly for having 2 or 3 spectacular drafts, but he didn't draft Gretzky. Pocklington bought Gretzky, no? And as great as those teams were, Gretzky was the most important part of the equation. As impressive as those 2-3 drafts were, the following 20 years make those 2-3 seem a lot more like a fluke.

Quote:
And he knows how to kiss his bosses ass, a skill that many of us are lacking.
Can't disagree with that.

Quote:
I like your posts but you really have no idea what a crippled franchise is. You should have been here in the 1960's or 1980's. While this hasn't been great, it hasn't been a disaster. I can remember a few seasons when the Rangers were effectively eliminated form playoff contention by Christmas. Sure it would have been great to win the Lottery and draft a Crosby or Malkin but we didn't. And the hard truth is that there are only 4 or 5 players picked in the last 10 years that were really woirth tanking for. Would you tank for a Cam Barker or a Jordan Staal?

Sather did a good job here. Not good enough. AMFYOYO.
I'm aware of how bad the team was during the times you mentioned, but I don't think that's relevant as far his job performance. Things work a lot differently in this league today than they did then.

At the end of the day, I'm not even that angry about the lack of playoff success. I'm angry about the lack of entertainment. Can you say that one single season under Sather has featured a good, entertaining, hockey team? You can say that Jagr was entertaining, that Lundqvist and Gaborik are entertaining. I'll agree with those. But not one Glen Sather Rangers team has been a good, well constructed hockey team. I want to see some entertaining team hockey. I'm still waiting. I'm not expecting the Red Wings, but what he's given us is unacceptable.

Would I tank for Barker, or Staal? Frankly, Staal is better than any player Sather has drafted and developed, no? At least to this point. That's how bad a job he's done. But I'd tank for Heatley, I'd tank for Spezza, I'd tank for Kovalchuk, I'd tank for Nash, Eric Staal, Bobby Ryan, Gaborik, Erik Johnson, Toews, Backstrom, Kessel, Kane, Stamkos, Doughty. I'd tank for any of those players, not to mention Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin. Any of those players would have drastically changed our fortunes.

Over the last 20 years, I believe the only NHL executive has done a worse job than Glen Sather has been Mike Milbury. He hasn't rebuilt the team, he hasn't constructed a contender, and his incredible inability to decipher the difference between star players and role players is just plain frightening. How could the general manager of a major professional hockey be so out of touch with the game and the league he works in?

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01-28-2010, 11:36 PM
  #4
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o5-06 and to some degree 06-07 were entertaining years

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01-28-2010, 11:58 PM
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o5-06 and to some degree 06-07 were entertaining years
The Jagr years were entertaining. Before and after...nope.

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01-29-2010, 12:16 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I can't agree he made the situation worse and worse. Look at the player developement pipeline. The Wolf Pack won the Calder Cup in 2000 and the Rangers had nothing to show from that team. Nothing. The only asset of consequence that Sather inherited was the rights to Lundqvist. (and you are right, he doesn't deserve credit for that)

Hiring Sather wasn't a mistake of epic proportions. He rebuilt the organization. He brought in a lot of good people. Slats drafted and built the right way but now that his guys are here, there are not enough results. Unfortunately a lot of the fault here for things going wrong in the early 2000s belings to drafts led by Don Maloney.

You can't judge Sather by his drafting record in Edmonton unless you are willing to give him credit for 5 Stanley Cups too. Some of his drafting and trading was legendary. It's a little harder to hit in the draft when you are picking last in every round every year.

And he knows how to kiss his bosses ass, a skill that many of us are lacking.

I like your posts but you really have no idea what a crippled franchise is. You should have been here in the 1960's or 1980's. While this hasn't been great, it hasn't been a disaster. I can remember a few seasons when the Rangers were effectively eliminated form playoff contention by Christmas. Sure it would have been great to win the Lottery and draft a Crosby or Malkin but we didn't. And the hard truth is that there are only 4 or 5 players picked in the last 10 years that were really woirth tanking for. Would you tank for a Cam Barker or a Jordan Staal?

Sather did a good job here. Not good enough. AMFYOYO.
for the mother****ing win! exactly how i feel.

i understand not being 100% behind this guy, but the anger/disgust some people have for sather boggles my mind. he's done a pretty good job.....not good enough, but things could be so much worse.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:39 AM
  #7
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So does anyone have a good idea of who they would want to step in as GM after Sather is gone?
I don't.

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01-29-2010, 12:45 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
The Jagr years were entertaining. Before and after...nope.
Other than Jagr himself, there wasn't all that much about those teams that was entertaining. I never felt like we had a really good team, just one really good player and a good goalie. Jason Ward, Steve Rucchin, Matt Cullen, Dominic Moore, Malik, Poti, Strudwick, Rachunek, Hossa...it was Jagr, a few over-the-hill veterans, and a bunch of scrubs.

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01-29-2010, 01:07 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Other than Jagr himself, there wasn't all that much about those teams that was entertaining. I never felt like we had a really good team, just one really good player and a good goalie. Jason Ward, Steve Rucchin, Matt Cullen, Dominic Moore, Malik, Poti, Strudwick, Rachunek, Hossa...it was Jagr, a few over-the-hill veterans, and a bunch of scrubs.
Agree...no real argument against that...but Jagr came to play every game....and 90% of the time he himself tried to make it a game.

Love Gabby...but the past 5 weeks really made me realize how much Jagr meant to this club when he was our only offensive tool for his time here.....Gaborik unfortunately will never be like Jagr..

Another reason why I say Jagr was a GREAT captain for this club...he came every game..

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01-29-2010, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Agree...no real argument against that...but Jagr came to play every game....and 90% of the time he himself tried to make it a game.

Love Gabby...but the past 5 weeks really made me realize how much Jagr meant to this club when he was our only offensive tool for his time here.....Gaborik unfortunately will never be like Jagr..

Another reason why I say Jagr was a GREAT captain for this club...he came every game..
Jaromir Jagr is one of the most underrated players of all time. It's no slight to Gaborik to say he's not going to ever be like Jagr. We were completely spoiled by what he did. He took the team on his shoulders and carried it, with help from Lundqvist.

You can't build teams like the 05-06 team. It was an accident that we even did well that year. Sather said before the season that the goal for the year was to rebuild. Making the playoffs was nowhere on his radar. There was no genius in what he has done post lockout. That was a fluke. He caught an elite player in perhaps the most unstoppable season of his career and his backup goalie turned into a Vezina finalist overnight. That's not the result of good management. That's the result of luck.

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01-29-2010, 01:21 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Jaromir Jagr is one of the most underrated players of all time. It's no slight to Gaborik to say he's not going to ever be like Jagr. We were completely spoiled by what he did. He took the team on his shoulders and carried it, with help from Lundqvist.

You can't build teams like the 05-06 team. It was an accident that we even did well that year. Sather said before the season that the goal for the year was to rebuild. Making the playoffs was nowhere on his radar. There was no genius in what he has done post lockout. That was a fluke. He caught an elite player in perhaps the most unstoppable season of his career and his backup goalie turned into a Vezina finalist overnight. That's not the result of good management. That's the result of luck.
Yup, you pretty much nailed it.

Thus making it one of the most enjoyable seasons for us Ranger fans in awhile.....the unexpected.

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01-29-2010, 01:38 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Jaromir Jagr is one of the most underrated players of all time. It's no slight to Gaborik to say he's not going to ever be like Jagr. We were completely spoiled by what he did. He took the team on his shoulders and carried it, with help from Lundqvist.

You can't build teams like the 05-06 team. It was an accident that we even did well that year. Sather said before the season that the goal for the year was to rebuild. Making the playoffs was nowhere on his radar. There was no genius in what he has done post lockout. That was a fluke. He caught an elite player in perhaps the most unstoppable season of his career and his backup goalie turned into a Vezina finalist overnight. That's not the result of good management. That's the result of luck.
I happen to consider Jagr the greatest European player in NHL history, so this isn't meant to take away from his abilities. But I also happen to believe that the rule changes in 05-06 played a large role in the season he had. A player like him really was able to use the changes to his advantage, because he's already bigger stronger and more powerful than almost everyone else on the ice. With the refs calling everything, Jagr was hard to stop because you couldn't do anything to defend him. Both the players and the officials were able to better adjust starting from 2006-07, and I think that played a big part in why his numbers, while still impressive, took a tumble the following season. Injuries deserve part of the blame, too. Can't deny that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Yup, you pretty much nailed it.

Thus making it one of the most enjoyable seasons for us Ranger fans in awhile.....the unexpected.
It was hard to enjoy for me, because I disagreed completely with the direction it was taking the team. The last two years, and the team's current state, is exactly what I feared the most in 05-06, when the team should have been rebuilding.

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01-29-2010, 01:53 AM
  #13
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someone draw up a poster for the rally saying "Vienna, Austria wants Sather gone!" since I can't be there myself (cus i live in Austria), maybe someone can represent the pain I feel over here... years and years of staying up 'till 1am (7pm eastern time) to watch piss poor efforts are enough!!!

FIRE SATHER!!!

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01-29-2010, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Osminator View Post
someone draw up a poster for the rally saying "European Ranger fans want Sather gone!" since I can't be there myself (cus i live in Austria), maybe someone can represent the pain I feel over here... years and years of staying up 'till 1am (7pm eastern time) to watch piss poor efforts are enough!!!

FIRE SATHER!!!
fixed

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01-29-2010, 04:39 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osminator View Post
someone draw up a poster for the rally saying "The worldwide population of ranger fans want Sather gone!" since I can't be there myself (cus i live in Austria), maybe someone can represent the pain I feel over here... years and years of staying up 'till 1am (7pm eastern time) to watch piss poor efforts are enough!!!

FIRE SATHER!!!


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Originally Posted by IceBear86 View Post
fixed
Double fixed.

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01-29-2010, 04:59 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
i understand not being 100% behind this guy, but the anger/disgust some people have for sather boggles my mind. he's done a pretty good job.....not good enough, but things could be so much worse.
I'm guessing that part of the anger/disgust you're seeing has everything to do with Sather's apparently teflon existence on the Rangers.

I'd completely agree with your assessment. What's so unbelievably aggravating is that "pretty-good-but-not-good-enough" is, has been, and seems like it will continue to be just fine with Ranger ownership. That's what really drives my anger.

Factor in the goodly number of fans who are also content with "pretty good but not good enough," and you get my disgust, especially because it is these same fans who so frequently resort to the rhetoric of "Ranger pride."

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01-29-2010, 08:31 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Agree...no real argument against that...but Jagr came to play every game....and 90% of the time he himself tried to make it a game.

Love Gabby...but the past 5 weeks really made me realize how much Jagr meant to this club when he was our only offensive tool for his time here.....Gaborik unfortunately will never be like Jagr..

Another reason why I say Jagr was a GREAT captain for this club...he came every game..
Couldn't have said this better, the man also made every player around him better as well.

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01-29-2010, 08:36 AM
  #18
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Captains like Messier and Jagr grow on trees, Ranger fans want one every season !

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01-29-2010, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
I'm guessing that part of the anger/disgust you're seeing has everything to do with Sather's apparently teflon existence on the Rangers.

I'd completely agree with your assessment. What's so unbelievably aggravating is that "pretty-good-but-not-good-enough" is, has been, and seems like it will continue to be just fine with Ranger ownership. That's what really drives my anger.

Factor in the goodly number of fans who are also content with "pretty good but not good enough," and you get my disgust, especially because it is these same fans who so frequently resort to the rhetoric of "Ranger pride."
there's more to it than me or anyone else being content with "pretty good, but not good enough"

who will dolan hire to replace sather?

are you telling me you'd be more comfortable with messier as the gm of this team?

the real problem is ownership and that will never change, so i'll take pretty good, but not good enough over abysmal. at least we have a guy i n office who kinda knows what he is doing and has loaded up our farm system while allowing the big club to remain competitive.

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01-29-2010, 08:46 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
there's more to it than me or anyone else being content with "pretty good, but not good enough"

who will dolan hire to replace sather?

are you telling me you'd be more comfortable with messier as the gm of this team?

the real problem is ownership and that will never change, so i'll take pretty good, but not good enough over abysmal. at least we have a guy i n office who kinda knows what he is doing and has loaded up our farm system while allowing the big club to remain competitive.
Ringing endorsement !

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01-29-2010, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
there's more to it than me or anyone else being content with "pretty good, but not good enough"

who will dolan hire to replace sather?

are you telling me you'd be more comfortable with messier as the gm of this team?

the real problem is ownership and that will never change, so i'll take pretty good, but not good enough over abysmal. at least we have a guy i n office who kinda knows what he is doing and has loaded up our farm system while allowing the big club to remain competitive.
So basically what you're saying is that you'd rather be guaranteed mediocrity than risk sucking at the expense of potentially competing for the Stanley Cup?

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01-29-2010, 09:35 AM
  #22
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So basically what you're saying is that you'd rather be guaranteed mediocrity than risk sucking at the expense of potentially competing for the Stanley Cup?

yes, because firing sather and replacing him with messier means that we will be potentially competing for the cup.

this team will be good enough to compete for a cup in 2-3 years. so we're gonna either miss the playoffs or get bounced in round 1 this year. i'm ok with that.

is it ok that i wanna see what the team will look like when stepan, grachev, sanguinetti, et al are playing real minutes before i jump down management's throat?

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01-29-2010, 09:51 AM
  #23
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there's more to it than me or anyone else being content with "pretty good, but not good enough"

who will dolan hire to replace sather?

are you telling me you'd be more comfortable with messier as the gm of this team?

the real problem is ownership and that will never change, so i'll take pretty good, but not good enough over abysmal. at least we have a guy i n office who kinda knows what he is doing and has loaded up our farm system while
You're not being consistent. You acknowledge that this ownership is capable of giving us "pretty good," and then you immediately follow up by saying the only other thing it can give us is abysmal.

That aside, you're making your decisions based on fear. I have no interest in doing so. To be afraid of NOT being "pretty good" is bing afraid to be very good.

Quote:
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allowing the big club to remain competitive.
That depends entirely on how one defines "competitive." Merely making the playoffs in a league where more than half the teams do so is not "competitive" from my perspective.

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01-29-2010, 10:00 AM
  #24
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You're not being consistent. You acknowledge that this ownership is capable of giving us "pretty good," and then you immediately follow up by saying the only other thing it can give us is abysmal.

That aside, you're making your decisions based on fear. I have no interest in doing so. To be afraid of NOT being "pretty good" is bing afraid to be very good.


That depends entirely on how one defines "competitive." Merely making the playoffs in a league where more than half the teams do so is not "competitive" from my perspective.
i am not making any decisions. nobody on this message board is making decisions. i have no say in what ownership does. some people think they do and i find that cute.

and if you want to look at the history of our current owner, he has only given us two types of teams- pretty good and abysmal.

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01-29-2010, 10:03 AM
  #25
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i am not making any decisions. nobody on this message board is making decisions. i have no say in what ownership does. some people think they do and i find that cute.

and if you want to look at the history of our current owner, he has only given us two types of teams- pretty good and abysmal.
That really doesn't prove anything considering for most of his "history" his GM has been, for the most part, Glen Sather. If we had 6 different GM's with similar results then you'd be going somewhere with that statement. All you've done is prove that under Glen Sather Dolan, just like you, has been afraid of change.

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