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Old
01-29-2010, 11:12 AM
  #26
McRanger
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Heres a bizarre scenario.

Say we sell off the fat, end the season terribly and get a top pick and a player like Hall or Seguin, but they don't fire Sather. There is the possibility of getting back into the playoffs next year and ending up with a young, legit competitive team in the next year or two, similar to the Blackhawks.

What would Sathers legacy be then? Successful, but on the back of his failures? It would be wonderful to see on the ice but that would be a strange bitter pill to swallow.

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01-29-2010, 11:28 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
That really doesn't prove anything considering for most of his "history" his GM has been, for the most part, Glen Sather. If we had 6 different GM's with similar results then you'd be going somewhere with that statement. All you've done is prove that under Glen Sather Dolan, just like you, has been afraid of change.
am i afraid of change or am i skeptical that our inept owner will be able to find a replacement who will do a better job than sather? i'm seeing the situation for what it is....the rest of you aren't being very realistic.

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01-29-2010, 11:32 AM
  #28
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i am not making any decisions. nobody on this message board is making decisions. i have no say in what ownership does. some people think they do and i find that cute.
How very funny! Everyone on this board, yourself included, is making a decision regarding their support for this regime. You've made the decision that you would rather support a "not-good-enough" regime than speak against that regime.

But I do think it cute that you equate "decision" with "allowing employment."

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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
and if you want to look at the history of our current owner, he has only given us two types of teams- pretty good and abysmal.
Then you would agree that another GM might also be pretty good. That being the case, why are you offering that you prefer pretty good over abysmal?

In any case, current ownership has made one GM hire: Glen Sather. By what logic do you come to the conclusion that they could not hire a "good" GM? You say that you're being realistic, yet you base your decision on a sample size of one. That's anything but "seeing the situation for what it is."


Last edited by dedalus: 01-29-2010 at 11:41 AM.
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Old
01-29-2010, 11:36 AM
  #29
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am i afraid of change or am i skeptical that our inept owner will be able to find a replacement who will do a better job than sather? i'm seeing the situation for what it is....the rest of you aren't being very realistic.
I don't see the difference between those two other than how you worded it.

I don't really see how anyone could do much worse of a job than Sather has done long term.

This all comes down to you being content with being mediocre.

It's like being reluctant to trade Chris Higgins for a 1st round pick because Chris Higgins is a guaranteed commodity, despite how mediocre, while the first round pick might not even make it to the NHL.

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01-29-2010, 11:45 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
I don't see the difference between those two other than how you worded it.

I don't really see how anyone could do much worse of a job than Sather has done long term.

This all comes down to you being content with being mediocre.

It's like being reluctant to trade Chris Higgins for a 1st round pick because Chris Higgins is a guaranteed commodity, despite how mediocre, while the first round pick might not even make it to the NHL.
you're not seeing where i'm coming from.

i wanna see how sather 2.0 plays out before i call for his head. the rebuild became a retool/rebuild on the fly because of beast jagr and the emergence of henrik in 05/06. imagine having a top 5 pick in addition to the prospects we have now? imagine if cherepanov hadn't passed away.

slats hasn't lost a trade since he's been our gm. he's made two completely stupid moves during his tenure here (redden and brashear). everything else he's done is defendable....even the drury/gomez signings.

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01-29-2010, 11:46 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Heres a bizarre scenario.

Say we sell off the fat, end the season terribly and get a top pick and a player like Hall or Seguin, but they don't fire Sather. There is the possibility of getting back into the playoffs next year and ending up with a young, legit competitive team in the next year or two, similar to the Blackhawks.

What would Sathers legacy be then? Successful, but on the back of his failures? It would be wonderful to see on the ice but that would be a strange bitter pill to swallow.
It is bizarre. Way too bizarre. The fat cannot be sold, nobody wants it for that price. The fat cannot even be given away.

Sather and the Blackhawks should not even be in the same sentence...I call violation!

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Old
01-29-2010, 11:54 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
The fat cannot even be given away.
I love this. It speaks truth on so many levels. It should be your signature.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:01 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
you're not seeing where i'm coming from.
I'm definitely not. Your logic runs thus:

"The Dolans have hired one pretty good GM. Based on the pretty good GM they hired, they can only hire an abysmal GM."

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:13 PM
  #34
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The Rally now has 665 people attending. Wow, by the time this comes, there will probably be well over 1000 people.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=272851463916

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:14 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
you're not seeing where i'm coming from.

i wanna see how sather 2.0 plays out before i call for his head. the rebuild became a retool/rebuild on the fly because of beast jagr and the emergence of henrik in 05/06. imagine having a top 5 pick in addition to the prospects we have now? imagine if cherepanov hadn't passed away.

slats hasn't lost a trade since he's been our gm. he's made two completely stupid moves during his tenure here (redden and brashear). everything else he's done is defendable....even the drury/gomez signings.
Dunham for Zidlicky was a trade he won?

Pretty sure trading away Tyutin for one season of Zherdev is an incredibly dumb move, too, and there is absolutely no way to defend the Drury/Gomez signings. Each alone was a terrible idea from the start, but together...it was a flashing big red sign: BAD IDEA. BAD IDEA.

Pretty hard to defend paying 5 mill a season to Rozsival, too. Not to mention the Kotalik contract.

Drafting Jessiman and Montoya were both more than pretty stupid, too.

As far as I see it, Sather 2.0 has already played out. The retool/rebuild on the fly doesn't work when it's poorly executed. If it did, a lot more teams would be able to pull it off successfully. He obviously still hasn't learned from his mistakes, as the Kotalik and Brashear signings this summer show, so why would we give the chance to make more such mistakes? Because of the chance, and a slim one at that, that this team is going to be competitive in 3-4 years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Heres a bizarre scenario.

Say we sell off the fat, end the season terribly and get a top pick and a player like Hall or Seguin, but they don't fire Sather. There is the possibility of getting back into the playoffs next year and ending up with a young, legit competitive team in the next year or two, similar to the Blackhawks.

What would Sathers legacy be then? Successful, but on the back of his failures? It would be wonderful to see on the ice but that would be a strange bitter pill to swallow.
You're right. Very bitter pill. But hey, that's the way I feel pretty much every season of late anyway, when Lundqvist is basically the only reason the team is even sniffing the playoffs.

I think the legacy would be that it took this guy 10 years just to figure out which path to take. We could have fully rebuilt 2-3 times already. And I think it would be a damn shame that Sather would be saddled with credit by default, since he wasted so many seasons.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
I love this. It speaks truth on so many levels. It should be your signature.
I do not think that is accurate.

Prospal, Higgins, and Rozy can be traded. I wouldn't be surprised it there was a taker for Kotalik as well. Redden can be waived, something I do not think management would be afraid to do. Same goes for guys like Voros.

Drury is the only one that will be here for 2 years, though if you get rid of the rest of them, at that point I doubt his contract really matters.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:33 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Dunham for Zidlicky was a trade he won?

Pretty sure trading away Tyutin for one season of Zherdev is an incredibly dumb move, too, and there is absolutely no way to defend the Drury/Gomez signings. Each alone was a terrible idea from the start, but together...it was a flashing big red sign: BAD IDEA. BAD IDEA.

Pretty hard to defend paying 5 mill a season to Rozsival, too. Not to mention the Kotalik contract.

Drafting Jessiman and Montoya were both more than pretty stupid, too.

As far as I see it, Sather 2.0 has already played out. The retool/rebuild on the fly doesn't work when it's poorly executed. If it did, a lot more teams would be able to pull it off successfully. He obviously still hasn't learned from his mistakes, as the Kotalik and Brashear signings this summer show, so why would we give the chance to make more such mistakes? Because of the chance, and a slim one at that, that this team is going to be competitive in 3-4 years?



You're right. Very bitter pill. But hey, that's the way I feel pretty much every season of late anyway, when Lundqvist is basically the only reason the team is even sniffing the playoffs.

I think the legacy would be that it took this guy 10 years just to figure out which path to take. We could have fully rebuilt 2-3 times already. And I think it would be a damn shame that Sather would be saddled with credit by default, since he wasted so many seasons.
You also forgot to mention the Kaspar signing.

Holik I give him a pass on in that other teams were offering very similar numbers and had he been used correctly, he wouldn't have been looked at as an absolute failure. However 9 million for a 3rd line elite checking center with size is kind of scary.....kind of like paying 7 million for (2) 2nd/3rd line diminutive center's...wait a minute...DOH!

Also structuring Lindros contract on a games played basis pretty much ensuring that he was going to play a soft game to ensure maximum return on his salary.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:45 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
I do not think that is accurate.

Prospal, Higgins, and Rozy can be traded. I wouldn't be surprised it there was a taker for Kotalik as well. Redden can be waived, something I do not think management would be afraid to do. Same goes for guys like Voros.

Drury is the only one that will be here for 2 years, though if you get rid of the rest of them, at that point I doubt his contract really matters.
MAYBE true of Rozy, but I'm not sure anyone defines Higgins and Vinnie as "the fat" of this team.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
MAYBE true of Rozy, but I'm not sure anyone defines Higgins and Vinnie as "the fat" of this team.
Vinnie is far from fat, but he is UFA who should be moved. I almost put in parentheses that I didn't consider Prospal "fat", but in the end by interest in having a nice clean sentence won out over my fear someone would mistake what I wrote.

As for Higgins, he is trans fat.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:51 PM
  #40
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Excitement? I would argue that the privlidge of watching Henrik Lundqvist play at a HOF level is pretty damn exciting.

Are the Devils exciting? Nope. For the most part they have been just painful to watch.

Do they win? Usually.

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Old
01-29-2010, 01:04 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Vinnie is far from fat, but he is UFA who should be moved. I almost put in parentheses that I didn't consider Prospal "fat", but in the end by interest in having a nice clean sentence won out over my fear someone would mistake what I wrote.

As for Higgins, he is trans fat.
Im all for nice clean sentences. I freely admit that part of my love for Jersey Girl's line is the language of it.


Decontextualize the line from the Rangers. I just like the prose of "The fat cannot even be given away."

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Old
01-29-2010, 01:10 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
Im all for nice clean sentences. I freely admit that part of my love for Jersey Girl's line is the language of it.


Decontextualize the line from the Rangers. I just like the prose of "The fat cannot even be given away."
How about:

“No diet will remove all the fat from our body because the brain is entirely fat".

I think that sums up our current predicament quite well...

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01-29-2010, 01:26 PM
  #43
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I partially agree with the sentiment that if we fire Sather, who do we have to replace him? I have a feeling that Sather was put in his place over the course of the year because his drafting has been much better since last year AND this offseason was not too bad (Kotalik was his only real mistake)

Gabby
Prospal

2 signings that have made this team a lot better

And of course, BTW, hindsight is always 20/20 so you cannot say Higgins was a mistake because he was a solid player and is still a solid player that is having a major problem adjusting to NYC.

And can we really bash Sather's recent trade history?

Tyutin for Zherdev was a good trade because the risk/reward could have been great. If Zherdev became a 40 goal scorer im sure all of you would not have a problem but again, because it didn't work out the trade sucked.

He traded Gomez away for Higgins, a top tier defensive prospect (McD) and more importantly, CAP SPACE for Gabby. No other GM could have fleeced Gainey the way Sather did in that instance.

Crapakowski for Lisin was a great trade because Lisin has potential but just like what happened to him under Gretzky, the kid isn't getting the chance or minutes he needs to develope and people bash him for his stunted growth but thats a topic for another day.

Now again, i do not condone what Sather did in the past, I'm saying that as it looks now, its better to keep him than axe him without a suitable replacement on the horizon. HOWEVER, if Sather gives away prospects to sign Souray or makes another idiotic move that shows no possible or reasonable sign of reward or benefit to this team (again, Souray, Lecav) by the trade deadline or the offseason, then I'm all for physically dragging him out of NYC and tossing him into the Hudson.

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Old
01-29-2010, 01:29 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Axxion89 View Post

Crapakowski for Lisin was a great trade because Lisin has potential but just like what happened to him under Gretzky, the kid isn't getting the chance or minutes he needs to develope and people bash him for his stunted growth but thats a topic for another day.
Poor Lisin, no one wants to give him a chance, boo hoo.

Meanwhile, Korpikoski with a strong game aganist the Flames last night, scored in the shootout win for Phoenix. But why would you want an update about a player who's name you don't even know how to spell

'Without a suitable replacement on the horizon' ? I can name a list of guys i'd put in his place, easy.

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01-29-2010, 01:34 PM
  #45
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I hate spelling and a change of scenery can do wonders for players. I'm happy that Phoenix is doing good and Prucha and Korpedo are doing good there. He was essentially useless here and if I can remember correctly, he was ahelathy scratch for phoenix a few times

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01-29-2010, 01:39 PM
  #46
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I hate spelling and a change of scenery can do wonders for players. I'm happy that Phoenix is doing good and Prucha and Korpedo are doing good there. He was essentially useless here and if I can remember correctly, he was ahelathy scratch for phoenix a few times
Useless is any easy word to throw around. Its also incorrect.

Lisin has been a healthy scratch as well. In fact, the production we have gotten from him is more useless than what Korps brought to us last season, if anything they're about even. But i'll go with the guy who the Phoenix coach (who's team is in the playoffs) starts in OT vs the Red Wings.

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Old
01-29-2010, 02:02 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Excitement? I would argue that the privlidge of watching Henrik Lundqvist play at a HOF level is pretty damn exciting.

Are the Devils exciting? Nope. For the most part they have been just painful to watch.

Do they win? Usually.
I'm one of those old school fans that finds the most excitement in winning. If given the opportunity to switch teams with the Devils over the past ten years, I'd gladly take it.

__________________

It's just pain.
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01-29-2010, 02:05 PM
  #48
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I'm one of those old school fans that finds the most excitement in winning. If given the opportunity to switch teams with the Devils over the past ten years, I'd gladly take it.
Ditto.

Never have found winning boring, it seems like alot of fun actually.

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01-29-2010, 02:07 PM
  #49
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am i afraid of change or am i skeptical that our inept owner will be able to find a replacement who will do a better job than sather? i'm seeing the situation for what it is....the rest of you aren't being very realistic.
Considering how many GMs have done a better job since Sather landed here, I'm afraid that it is you that is failing to be realistic.

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01-29-2010, 02:09 PM
  #50
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Ditto.

Never have found winning boring, it seems like alot of fun actually.
Don't get me wrong, I love 6-5 games. But when we lose 6-5, does anyone feel good about the result? Yeah, it was an exciting 2 1/2 hours, but at the end of the day you feel pretty crappy that you lost. I'll take a "boring" 2-1 win any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

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