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01-29-2010, 07:24 PM
  #26
redwings85
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Originally Posted by caseygraves View Post
Outside of his hitting I wasn't impressed by Abdelkader at all. heck, i would go a step further and say he should have stayed at Michigan State for his senior year.
this...
if he actually could get some scoring chances and put up some points, i would be a lil disappointed, but I am happy he's still young... from what I remember did he not sign as a two way contract to start?

But I do agree with some I think Leino should be sent down... I am really unsure why they are keeping him up benching him here and there where he could develop a little better down in GR.

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01-29-2010, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by redwings85 View Post
But I do agree with some I think Leino should be sent down... I am really unsure why they are keeping him up benching him here and there where he could develop a little better down in GR.
well, that's the problem. he can't get send down without waivers. that is what saved his job so far. not sure if it will save him once all players are back. holland needs to make decisions and leino is not exactly showing that he belongs.

i think he either gets it done soon, getting some more chances or he's back in finland. the way he's playing, he won't make it on another team either.

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01-29-2010, 07:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
well, that's the problem. he can't get send down without waivers. that is what saved his job so far. not sure if it will save him once all players are back. holland needs to make decisions and leino is not exactly showing that he belongs.

i think he either gets it done soon, getting some more chances or he's back in finland. the way he's playing, he won't make it on another team either.
Indeed thats true...
its unfort to.

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01-30-2010, 12:57 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Abby's skating is fine, but the problem is he doesn't exactly know what he's doing. I get the feeling the sum total of his instructions at this point are 'run around, hit people, and don't screw anything up.'

It never looks like he's actually playing a system so much as constantly being the middle guy in a game of 'keepaway', getting to a guy after he's made his play.

That doesn't mean he's slow, even Helm doesn't always get to guys before they move the puck and he's about the fastest NHL skater I've ever seen, he just has a really, really, REALLY limited role.
^This.
From watching Abdelkader, it's not his personal ability that's lacking, or the fight in him. What's missing is that he doesn't utilize his line mates on either end of the ice. He hits, forechecks hard, fights for the puck and skate decently. But he's never made any sort of offensive play (that looks coordinated) in conjunction with another teammate. He also doesn't give puck support in the defensive zone where it's needed.

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01-30-2010, 01:14 AM
  #30
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I still think part of it is that Abdelkader is just better suited for the wing than center. Put him over on the wing where he can simplify his game a bit and I think we would see him make more of an impact.

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01-30-2010, 01:16 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I still think part of it is that Abdelkader is just better suited for the wing than center. Put him over on the wing where he can simplify his game a bit and I think we would see him make more of an impact.
Agree. On the wing I think he could develop into Franzen-lite.

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01-30-2010, 01:35 AM
  #32
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Abdelkader needed to go down. It would have been better for him to be in GR most of the year, refining his overall game, getting 20 minutes, PK, PP, et al. I wouldn't be too hard on him for his lack of production, given his assigned role, but zero points and a -11 rating in his last 20 games is indeed underwhelming. He's got work to do. I can see solid NHL potential in him though (as a bottom-6 guy, not as any kind of significant point-producer, as some think).

Babcock's quote was certainly not a "verbal haymaker." Babcock often speaks like that. "He thinks this way," "he feels that way," they aren't insults, he's simply speaking on behalf of his players.

As far as May and Leino, I don't like either one, but Leino offers more now and in the future, so I keep him before May, who would pass through waivers anyway. Easy choice. May does virtually nothing and wouldn't sniff the playoffs anyway. Leino, for all his faults, actually looked competent on the powerplay, which has some value. And he has upside. Brad May has pending retirement.

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01-30-2010, 02:20 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
As far as May and Leino, I don't like either one, but Leino offers more now and in the future, so I keep him before May, who would pass through waivers anyway. Easy choice. May does virtually nothing and wouldn't sniff the playoffs anyway. Leino, for all his faults, actually looked competent on the powerplay, which has some value. And he has upside. Brad May has pending retirement.
The amount of cap space needed for Franzen's return is more than what relief from May's contract offers.

Either one of Leino or Meech will have to go, along with May. Since Babcock isn't even batting an eye when it comes to giving Leino a seat up in the press box, my guess is that he goes first. Upside or not, he's been all kinds of bad this season. If he can't stay in the lineup with guys injured, there's almost no way in hell he'd find himself back in when guys come back.

The decision making process on who to get rid of really isn't as difficult as some might make it seem. Leino is useless on this team. He'd been given ample opportunity to succeed early on, and did nothing with it. He might (and I highly stress might) have potential, but it's not going to come to pass on this team. He's gone when Franzen returns; I think we could almost certainly guarantee it, even at this point.


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01-30-2010, 02:38 AM
  #34
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If two of May, Leino, and Meech have to go when Franzen returns, I agree it should probably be May and Leino. The Wings have plenty of forward depth. Until healthy Lilja is back, Meech fills the 7th d-man role though. I just think when it comes to priority, May goes before Leino.

I think a trade (of someone other than the above mentioned players) is unlikely, but I wouldn't totally count out the possibility. There are several factors at play with the Wings cap. Lots of players in the mix and, if Lilja returns, lots of bodies that need to be moved.

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01-30-2010, 09:59 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Babcock's quote was certainly not a "verbal haymaker." Babcock often speaks like that. "He thinks this way," "he feels that way," they aren't insults, he's simply speaking on behalf of his players.
Oh, come on. Babcock was poking Abdelkader there. If in referring to you someone said 'Well, Jaster thinks he's an HF-Boards quality poster' at about the time you got suspended from the boards for a couple months...

Well, I would think the intent is obvious. Babcock's comment was about as aggressive as he gets with young guys.

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01-30-2010, 11:53 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
If two of May, Leino, and Meech have to go when Franzen returns, I agree it should probably be May and Leino. The Wings have plenty of forward depth. Until healthy Lilja is back, Meech fills the 7th d-man role though. I just think when it comes to priority, May goes before Leino.

I think a trade (of someone other than the above mentioned players) is unlikely, but I wouldn't totally count out the possibility. There are several factors at play with the Wings cap. Lots of players in the mix and, if Lilja returns, lots of bodies that need to be moved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Oh, come on. Babcock was poking Abdelkader there. If in referring to you someone said 'Well, Jaster thinks he's an HF-Boards quality poster' at about the time you got suspended from the boards for a couple months...

Well, I would think the intent is obvious. Babcock's comment was about as aggressive as he gets with young guys.
Indeed. I think HD is right, jaster. Babcock was actually saying that Abdelkader needs to improve to be a contribute NHL player. Nothing wrong with that. We are talking about a kid here. Some day he will be a NHL player, just not right now; in the role Babcock sees for him

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01-30-2010, 01:07 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I still think part of it is that Abdelkader is just better suited for the wing than center. Put him over on the wing where he can simplify his game a bit and I think we would see him make more of an impact.
I agree.
But I think he needs to work on his skating.

Maltby was a very effective grinder and energy player when he could skate. Then he slowed down and was always arriving too late to hit the D in their own end.

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01-30-2010, 03:05 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Oh, come on. Babcock was poking Abdelkader there. If in referring to you someone said 'Well, Jaster thinks he's an HF-Boards quality poster' at about the time you got suspended from the boards for a couple months...

Well, I would think the intent is obvious. Babcock's comment was about as aggressive as he gets with young guys.
Babcock is not "someone." Interpreting his comments the same way you'd interpret a message board poster's comments is faulty logic. Poking Abdelkader? Maybe. A verbal haymaker? No, unless you are dealing in hyperbole.

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01-30-2010, 06:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
I don't think he's got a whole lot of offense to give, frankly. He looks like a good solid bottom 6 checker and energy line player, but I don't see him becoming much of a scorer. I could be wrong though. Time will tell.
I agree but who really knows what player he might develop into. I dont think he does either but with that being said one can be optimistic right?

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01-30-2010, 06:48 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Babcock is not "someone." Interpreting his comments the same way you'd interpret a message board poster's comments is faulty logic.
That's a silly statement.

Quote:
Poking Abdelkader? Maybe. A verbal haymaker? No, unless you are dealing in hyperbole.
Let's put it this way: how much more negatively strident has Mike Babcock ever been about a young player?

My point here is that his comment about Abdelkader, while seemingly laconic, is pretty much as heavy a shot as he will take at a young player. 'He thinks he's an NHL player' is about a million Babcockian Light Years (BYL) from the comments he makes about players he has a positive opinion of. Reference, for instance, his comments about Ericsson the past couple seasons.

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01-30-2010, 08:20 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
That's a silly statement.
Really? What poster here communicates in the same manner as Mike Babcock with the media? None. It's your example that was silly.


Quote:
Let's put it this way: how much more negatively strident has Mike Babcock ever been about a young player?

My point here is that his comment about Abdelkader, while seemingly laconic, is pretty much as heavy a shot as he will take at a young player. 'He thinks he's an NHL player' is about a million Babcockian Light Years (BYL) from the comments he makes about players he has a positive opinion of. Reference, for instance, his comments about Ericsson the past couple seasons.
My point is that even if it was a "poke" at Abs, or as "heavy" a shot as he will take, it was still mostly nothing. Certainly not a "verbal haymaker."

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01-30-2010, 08:42 PM
  #42
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I certainly didn't view Babcock's comments as a slam.
Abdelkader wasn't horrible. He's a serviceable 4th liner. But come on. Waivers aren't an issue. And he might actually benefit from the demotion, unlike anyone else who might have been considered.

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01-30-2010, 09:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I certainly didn't view Babcock's comments as a slam.
Abdelkader wasn't horrible. He's a serviceable 4th liner. But come on. Waivers aren't an issue. And he might actually benefit from the demotion, unlike anyone else who might have been considered.
I agree. This is just the way Babcock speaks, a few seasons ago (maybe it was last season) Babcock said something to the effect that some player is going to be a real NHL player someday. He didn't mean that the player wasn't already an NHL player, a good one at that, he just meant that he's going to be really good one day.

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01-30-2010, 11:45 PM
  #44
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Last year I heard Kevin Allen tell Sean Baligian on "It is what it is" (as it was back then) that the player that he most thought Abdelkader most favorably compared to was Samuel Phalsson (did I spell that right... gotta check that). I wouldn't judge Abby's potential based on what we've seen so far. I think he just has to figure out how to play his game at the NHL level. There must be some good reason the Wings selected him over Paul Stastny.



edit: It's Pahlsson


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01-30-2010, 11:53 PM
  #45
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Last year I heard Kevin Allen tell Sean Baligian on "It is what it is" (as it was back then) that the player that he most thought Abdelkader most favorably compared to was Samuel Phalsson (did I spell that right... gotta check that). I wouldn't judge Abby's potential based on what we've seen so far. I think he just has to figure out how to play his game at the NHL level. There must be some good reason the Wings selected him over Paul Stasny.
He was playing hockey in Michigan and Stastny was playing hockey in Colorado. Once you get beyond that guys that everyone knows everything thing about the draft is about picking guys you know more about. Seeing as Abby grew up playing HS hockey in Michigan and was going to return to Michigan State, the Wings probably knew more about him. Stastny was playing college hockey in Denver. I'm sure the Avs' staff saw more of him than any other NHL franchise did. No one picked Stastny in '04 when he was first eligible to be drafted...

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01-30-2010, 11:55 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
He was playing hockey in Michigan and Stastny was playing hockey in Colorado. Once you get beyond that guys that everyone knows everything thing about the draft is about picking guys you know more about. Seeing as Abby grew up playing HS hockey in Michigan and was going to return to Michigan State, the Wings probably knew more about him. Stastny was playing college hockey in Denver. I'm sure the Avs' staff saw more of him than any other NHL franchise did. No one picked Stastny in '04 when he was first eligible to be drafted...
No one expected Stastny to be this good offensively, either. Going into that draft Wolski looked to have the much higher offensive ceiling.

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01-31-2010, 12:01 AM
  #47
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He was playing hockey in Michigan and Stastny was playing hockey in Colorado. Once you get beyond that guys that everyone knows everything thing about the draft is about picking guys you know more about. Seeing as Abby grew up playing HS hockey in Michigan and was going to return to Michigan State, the Wings probably knew more about him. Stastny was playing college hockey in Denver. I'm sure the Avs' staff saw more of him than any other NHL franchise did. No one picked Stastny in '04 when he was first eligible to be drafted...
That makes sense. The Wings prefer to focus on European talent where they think less NHL scouts are likely to search than North American soil.

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01-31-2010, 01:42 PM
  #48
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Really? What poster here communicates in the same manner as Mike Babcock with the media? None.
The reason you are being silly is that you have now set yourself the standard of only being able to compare things that are functionally identical, making any comparison immediately meaningless.

Really, you can only compare things Babcock says when using the english language to... things other NHL coaches say? Or, is even that too broad?

Quote:
My point is that even if it was a "poke" at Abs, or as "heavy" a shot as he will take, it was still mostly nothing. Certainly not a "verbal haymaker."
Oh good grief. Mike Babcock just implied he doesn't think Abdelkader's an NHL player. When he's sent down guys who he thought were NHL players, like Ericsson recently and Filppula a little farther back, his comments reflected that.

Sorry, but directly implying through omission you don't think a guy is an NHL player is, indeed, a verbal haymaker. There were about 20 different ways Babcock could have commented on that and softened the impression, and he didn't choose to do so.

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01-31-2010, 01:59 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Mike Babcock just implied he doesn't think Abdelkader's an NHL player. When he's sent down guys who he thought were NHL players, like Ericsson recently and Filppula a little farther back, his comments reflected that.

Sorry, but directly implying through omission you don't think a guy is an NHL player is, indeed, a verbal haymaker. There were about 20 different ways Babcock could have commented on that and softened the impression, and he didn't choose to do so.
I think you're reading way too much into it.

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01-31-2010, 02:24 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I agree.
But I think he needs to work on his skating.

Maltby was a very effective grinder and energy player when he could skate. Then he slowed down and was always arriving too late to hit the D in their own end.
An extra step doesn't hurt anyone. A bit of smarts doesn't hurt, either, though.I don't think Abdelkader is appreciably slower (or faster) than guys like Franzen or Cleary, but I thought we saw both guys appear slower when at center than at wing. If Abdelkader can gain a step and be put in a spot to simplify his game (like next to Helm and Eaves next year), it can only be a good thing.

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