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Roy: "Price is not ready to put on big shoes"

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01-30-2010, 02:07 PM
  #51
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Its bound to set in eventually. Halak doesnt get the feeling as much because for some inexplicable they play better in front of him. With teh win and your in if the team abandons the goalie he loses. I would say the team has left price out to dry more than halak and I dont know about you but when other people make you look bad and vice versa it starts to weigh on you.
It would be ****** being in there knowing if its 2-0 or hell even 1-0 that your team usually wont come back from.
Whatever though. Looking for the players who have supposedly "given up" on Price, who do you find? I think recently (and even in lack-luster games which Price has started) most of the important guys (Plekanec, Gomez, Pouliot, Markov, Hamrlik) have been solid (if unremarkable) pretty consistently. If Price gets so dejected because the scrubs and projects like Lapierre, Gill, Pacioretty, etc have been letting him down, and without any consideration to the impact of players like Gionta, A.Kost, etc missing for stretches, that would be a bit alarming to me.

I'm not surprised that the Price fanclub feels they've been victimized by a conspiracy to make Price look bad, but everything considered (partying on a boat with T-Pain before games, etc) I don't see you can make any strong correlations with a deliberate "giving up" on Price by the team when on the ice. There must be something else that is bigger and more fundamentally flawed with the team's approach than that.

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01-31-2010, 12:21 AM
  #52
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
But see, that's why just following a stats sheet isn't going to help you follow the progress of a player. Actually watching him, I think it's plainly obvious that he has good games, and bad games. Great games, and not so great games. Games where he looks comfortable, games where 1 goal (bad or good) seems to knock him a bit off his game. Calling it struggling, call it fighting to gain some consistency, whatever. "Struggling" is obviously a relative term (the goalies ACTUALLY struggled a bit in the NJ/Tor game tonight, for example), and wouldn't be so commonly used if there wasn't another young guy seemingly playing better hockey in his 42% of the team's games.
The guy has been stellar for almost the whole season. Yes, he's had some tough games here and there but by and large he's been great.

The problem is that he's on a team that can't score against good teams. We rarely win in regulation and that's certainly not Price's fault. People look at this record and assume that he's struggled... he hasn't, the team in front of him has. Price is one of the few things we have going well for us. It's just too bad that the press is hellbent on stirring up crap on this.

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01-31-2010, 12:48 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The guy has been stellar for almost the whole season. Yes, he's had some tough games here and there but by and large he's been great.
In the context of being a 22 year old goaltender, you're right. In the context of being an NHL goaltender, though, I'm not going to agree with you here. Even from a purely statistical point of view, having 1/3rd of your games at a sv pct under 0.890 is not "stellar for almost the whole season". Neither is letting in 3+ goals in about 2/3rds of your games. Reverting to a purely observational standpoint, and he has been "good for almost the whole season", sometimes stellar/great, and occasionally meh, whatever.

Still better than you could hope for, no matter how highly regarded the talent, if you're sitting at the draft table and trying to forecast a player's development by age 22.

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01-31-2010, 01:18 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
In the context of being a 22 year old goaltender, you're right. In the context of being an NHL goaltender, though, I'm not going to agree with you here. Even from a purely statistical point of view, having 1/3rd of your games at a sv pct under 0.890 is not "stellar for almost the whole season". Neither is letting in 3+ goals in about 2/3rds of your games. Reverting to a purely observational standpoint, and he has been "good for almost the whole season", sometimes stellar/great, and occasionally meh, whatever.
Letting in 3 goals in 2/3 of your games is irrelevant. I know it sounds strange to hear that but it's true.

If you're facing 100 shots per night and you only let in 3 in 2/3 of those games, you're doing pretty well right? It's not the number of goals that matter, it's the percentage of shots that you stop that count.

As for having 1/3 of your games under .890, that's about the ratio of games that Luongo had under .890 last season (19 out of 54,) ditto with Martin Brodeur (10 out of 30.)

Price has very been consistent dude, don't let Jack Todd fool you.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Still better than you could hope for, no matter how highly regarded the talent, if you're sitting at the draft table and trying to forecast a player's development by age 22.
Forget about his age. He's been stellar and if we had a half decent team in front of him his numbers would be even better.

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01-31-2010, 01:34 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Forget about his age. He's been stellar and if we had a half decent team in front of him his numbers would be even better.
I don't know that he's been "stellar". He's been good, very good even, but "stellar"?

Halak has been stellar. He's the best goaltender on the team ATM. That says more about how great he's been, though, and is no discredit to Price.

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01-31-2010, 01:36 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
As for having 1/3 of your games under .890, that's about the ratio of games that Luongo had under .890 last season (19 out of 54,) ditto with Martin Brodeur (10 out of 30.)
I would have been more inclined to give this point some merit, however both Luongo and Brodeur had a substantial # of 1.000s to offset those games, whereas this year Price has none.

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01-31-2010, 01:40 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I would have been more inclined to give this point some merit, however both Luongo and Brodeur had a substantial # of 1.000s to offset those games, whereas this year Price has none.
The fact that Price doesn't have any shutouts doesn't matter. Again, it's not the number of goals you allow, its the number of shots you stop.

And let's be honest here, Brodeur and Luongo play behind much better teams. Seriously, don't you think that Price's numbers would be better on either of those teams? Don't you think that Brodeur's and Luongo's would be worse?

Slice it any way you want to, Price has been very consistent for us and it's right in line with those top goalies. Sure it would be nice for him to have some shutouts but at the end of the day, he gives us a good to great performance on a consistent basis and he does it on a bad team.

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01-31-2010, 01:44 AM
  #58
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I don't know that he's been "stellar". He's been good, very good even, but "stellar"?

Halak has been stellar. He's the best goaltender on the team ATM. That says more about how great he's been, though, and is no discredit to Price.
I'm not going to get into a nitpicking argument with you about the word 'stellar.' And we're not talking about Halak. Feel free to call him 'super stellar' if it suits you.

Anyone who is unhappy with a .913 save percentage and the performance that Price has given us this year should have his head examined. Most specifically, Jack Todd.

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01-31-2010, 01:50 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The fact that Price doesn't have any shutouts doesn't matter. Again, it's not the number of goals you allow, its the number of shots you stop.

And let's be honest here, Brodeur and Luongo play behind much better teams. Seriously, don't you think that Price's numbers would be better on either of those teams? Don't you think that Brodeur's and Luongo's would be worse?

Slice it any way you want to, Price has been very consistent for us and it's right in line with those top goalies. Sure it would be nice for him to have some shutouts but at the end of the day, he gives us a good to great performance on a consistent basis and he does it on a bad team.
So what now, Halak would be the obvious #1 Vezina contender if HE played on those teams? I mean, look at his numbers compared to Price. Sub him in instead of Luongo or Brodeur and just imagine what his numbers would be!!?!

Come on dude. Real life doesn't work that way. He's obviously not "in line with top goalies" right now UNLESS you consider his age. And that's not me trying to argue that he has been bad. That's me arguing with you and your stance that he gets the grade of "stellar" or even "great" so far this year unless you're speaking from mostly developmental overall ("big picture") standpoint. In the end though no one is "unhappy" with his performance so far. Many of us haven't crowned him a sure-fire perennial Vezina candidate though, so obviously this is going to keep going back and forth until we have the benefit of hindsight.

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01-31-2010, 05:52 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Whatever he said i'm ok with it. Wasn't he the only one to blame Gainey and Carbo to keep Latendresse with the Habs instead of give him back to junior or ahl in 2006-07??? Who was right? Where is Tender right now?

Pat know Montreal by heart, he know how tough it is for a young goalie to play here. He's the man !

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01-31-2010, 08:23 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
So what now, Halak would be the obvious #1 Vezina contender if HE played on those teams? I mean, look at his numbers compared to Price. Sub him in instead of Luongo or Brodeur and just imagine what his numbers would be!!?!

Come on dude. Real life doesn't work that way. He's obviously not "in line with top goalies" right now UNLESS you consider his age. And that's not me trying to argue that he has been bad. That's me arguing with you and your stance that he gets the grade of "stellar" or even "great" so far this year unless you're speaking from mostly developmental overall ("big picture") standpoint. In the end though no one is "unhappy" with his performance so far. Many of us haven't crowned him a sure-fire perennial Vezina candidate though, so obviously this is going to keep going back and forth until we have the benefit of hindsight.
I think Halak has been awesome, never said otherwise. That's not my problem with what Roy has said here.

Roy has said that Price isn't ready to step up and lead this team going forward. And he's wrong about this. If we dealt Halak tomorrow our goaltending would still be among the best in the league. It's the team in front of the net that's the problem.

.913 is stellar for a 30 year old or a 22 year old. It doesn't matter how old you are. If you'd prefer "very good" that's fine too. All I'm saying is that there's nothing to be unhappy about with the way Price has played this year but if you listen to the radio folks make it sound like he's the reason we've lost when in reality, he and Halak are the only reason we've won as many games as we have.

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01-31-2010, 09:03 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think Halak has been awesome, never said otherwise. That's not my problem with what Roy has said here.

Roy has said that Price isn't ready to step up and lead this team going forward. And he's wrong about this. If we dealt Halak tomorrow our goaltending would still be among the best in the league. It's the team in front of the net that's the problem.

.913 is stellar for a 30 year old or a 22 year old. It doesn't matter how old you are. If you'd prefer "very good" that's fine too. All I'm saying is that there's nothing to be unhappy about with the way Price has played this year but if you listen to the radio folks make it sound like he's the reason we've lost when in reality, he and Halak are the only reason we've won as many games as we have.
I think you're either putting too much stock in the opinions of the wrong people, or interpreting people's words too literally. I guess I must look past the face value of what I see printed in the media more often that you and accept that some (most?) people are simply off their rockers. I think many people are surprised that Halak is not just arguably, but clearly, out-playing Price this year... and yet there are still talks abound that Price should already be the clear-cut #1 guy and Halak should be shipped out ASAP and replaced by this mythical "veteran" who is just as effective, but cheaper and doesn't care about whether he plays or not, to pave the way. I fully expect resistance to this backwards logic to manifest itself as it has in a city that believes they are entitled to wins, and lots of them.

And for what it's worth, I agree with Roy: Price is not quite ready to step up and be the #1. Youth, inconsistencies, mental issues (whether they be as major or minor as you believe, he's still growing into playing in a city like Montreal), a bit of friction with the best player and leader of the team, and the fact that the other guy in town is playing better lead me to believe that it's not quite time (despite overall very fine statistics). I don't feel the need to try so hard to figure out how it COULD work (unlike some others), when everything already works better than you could expect as is.

Again, based on the collective body of info on developing goalies since the dawn of goaltending tandems, there is nothing wrong with giving Price the time he needs, and the worst thing that can happen is getting rushed.

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