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Phaneuf, Giguere traded to Leafs, part of two separate trades

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Old
01-31-2010, 12:03 PM
  #76
billandsebastian
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As good as Giguere is/was, I really expected the Ducks to have to ship a little more out to unload that massive contract.

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01-31-2010, 12:04 PM
  #77
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The Toskala-JSG trade totally sounds like a trade the Flyers would make, especially if a 1st rounder is involved from the Ducks - commit to one guy, and trade his now-backup so that he can play elsewhere rather than sit on the bench - while giving up a quality draft pick to entice another team to make that deal.

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01-31-2010, 12:05 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billandsebastian View Post
As good as Giguere is/was, I really expected the Ducks to have to ship a little more out to unload that massive contract.
It's only one year, and they get 2 years of deadweight Blake back.

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01-31-2010, 12:06 PM
  #79
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Burke spinning the wheel.

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01-31-2010, 12:09 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Kessel ($5.40)
Bozak ($3.73)
Grabovski ($2.90)
Orr ($1.00)
Sjostrom ($0.75)
Rosehill ($0.51)
Kulemin (RFA)
Mitchell (RFA)

Phaneuf ($6.50)
Komisarek ($4.50)
Kaberle ($4.25)
Beauchemin ($3.80)
Finger ($3.50)
Schenn ($2.98)
Gunnarsson ($0.80)

Gigeure ($6.00)
Gustavsson (RFA)

Tucker - buyout ($1.00)

Total: 47.62 on 16 players with 3 RFAs

That's a little more manageable.
Damn. The Leafs are going to be scary if they can sign some people this offseason, i.e. Kovalchuk.

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01-31-2010, 12:10 PM
  #81
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That's a very strange deal for the Ducks, don't get it.

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01-31-2010, 12:12 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
That's a very strange deal for the Ducks, don't get it.
Getting rid of a 6 million goalie after signing your other goalie to a 18 million, 4 year extension does not make sense to you? It's a salary dump from the Ducks perspective, more or less. They get a goalie that comes off the books at the end of the season in return and a depth winger who's good for about 60 points in a full season.

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01-31-2010, 12:12 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Damn. The Leafs are going to be scary if they can sign some people this offseason, i.e. Kovalchuk.
I think that salary picture would beg to differ. They will be able to sign some people, but there's NO way they can sign Kovalchuk without moving some pieces. If they sign both RFA's, they still only have 8 forwards. Maybe one or two guys come up from the AHL, but they have to sign some depth guys first.

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01-31-2010, 12:13 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Damn. The Leafs are going to be scary if they can sign some people this offseason, i.e. Kovalchuk.
No they won't.

Kessel - Overpaid
Bozak - Overpaid
Grabovski - Accurate
Orr - Overpaid
Sjostrom - 4th line, accurate

Phaneuf - Overpaid
Komisarek - Overpaid
Beauchemin - Overpaid
Finger - Overpaid
Schenn - Overpaid

Giguere - Overpaid

You don't win with that many overpaid players.

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01-31-2010, 12:14 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billandsebastian View Post
I think that salary picture would beg to differ. They will be able to sign some people, but there's NO way they can sign Kovalchuk without moving some pieces. If they sign both RFA's, they still only have 8 forwards. Maybe one or two guys come up from the AHL, but they have to sign some depth guys first.
I assume Kadri will be there at $1.75m as well by next season.

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01-31-2010, 12:14 PM
  #86
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Leafs traded 38.5% of their goal scoring today

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01-31-2010, 12:15 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Getting rid of a 6 million goalie after signing your other goalie to a 18 million, 4 year extension does not make sense to you?
They're taking on a forward making 3x what he's worth who's 36 years-old through 11-12.

I'd rather trade Giguere for a 5th than taking on a guy making 4 mill per year for the next 2.5 who was playing 3rd line minutes on a terrible team.

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01-31-2010, 12:16 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Leafs traded 38.5% of their goal scoring today
And the only forward they got back was Sjostrom and they added salary past this year.

That's why I don't get why Leaf fans are excited, I'd be pretty upset right now if I were a Leaf fan.

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01-31-2010, 12:17 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
They're taking on a forward making 3x what he's worth who's 36 years-old through 11-12.

I'd rather trade Giguere for a 5th than taking on a guy making 4 mill per year for the next 2.5 who was playing 3rd line minutes on a terrible team.
I'd rather have that tied up in a scoring forward than my backup goalie.

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01-31-2010, 12:17 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
No they won't.

Kessel - Overpaid
Bozak - Overpaid
Grabovski - Accurate
Orr - Overpaid
Sjostrom - 4th line, accurate

Phaneuf - Overpaid
Komisarek - Overpaid
Beauchemin - Overpaid
Finger - Overpaid
Schenn - Overpaid

Giguere - Overpaid

You don't win with that many overpaid players.
I disagree with the bold. Kessel is a high-scoring forward who will be successful with players around him in Toronto. Bozak is a promising young talent who will grow into his salary. Schenn is not overpaid on his ELC. He'll be good for years though not stellar. Phaneuf is overpaid now, but he will become a very valuable defenseman when he grows his defensive game as he gets experience much like Carle and Coburn.

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01-31-2010, 12:19 PM
  #91
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And the only forward they got back was Sjostrom and they added salary past this year.

That's why I don't get why Leaf fans are excited, I'd be pretty upset right now if I were a Leaf fan.
This was a move for the future. That's obvious.

I wouldn't necessarily be excited, but I wouldn't be upset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Leafs traded 38.5% of their goal scoring today
And it's probably a safe bet that Stempniak and Ponikarovsky could be moved by deadline as rentals. I wouldn't mind one of them as a depth winger if we could afford them.

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01-31-2010, 12:19 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Leafs traded 38.5% of their goal scoring today
I wonder how Burke is planning to get his first round pick back from Boston. They are pretty much primed to fall in the abyss but even if they'd tank, they can't draft anything decently. Well, the Oilers are getting Hall anyhow.

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01-31-2010, 12:20 PM
  #93
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Toronto just said "**** Offense"

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01-31-2010, 12:24 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I'd rather have that tied up in a scoring forward than my backup goalie.
Obviously Giguere was a problem, but taking on that contract is not a successful deal IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I disagree with the bold. Kessel is a high-scoring forward who will be successful with players around him in Toronto. Bozak is a promising young talent who will grow into his salary. Schenn is not overpaid on his ELC. He'll be good for years though not stellar. Phaneuf is overpaid now, but he will become a very valuable defenseman when he grows his defensive game as he gets experience much like Carle and Coburn.
Kessel is the epitome of a me-first forward, I watched him for 3 years in Boston, I don't think you win with guys like that as your best forward.

Bozak is a decent talent, but he's on a maximum ELC which is a whole lot for somebody who generally isn't regarded as an elite talent.

Schenn is definitely overpaid at 3 mill per year. ELCs aren't analyzed enough, for some reason, a lot of organizations feel some kind of obligation to give these guys max bonuses, Flyers handled it right with JVR.

Phaneuf is a massive question mark, this is a guy who has seriously regressed and was never great in his own zone to begin with. He makes more than Kimmo, more than Pronger, more than Green, same as Keith, nearly as much as Boyle, etc.

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01-31-2010, 12:27 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
This was a move for the future. That's obvious.

I wouldn't necessarily be excited, but I wouldn't be upset.
Yeah, but it's not the instant salvation that Leafs fans think it will be.

They are going to be terrible next year (and don't have their pick that year either), no real prospects in the system, and they still have some pretty bad contracts.

I'd say they might be a bubble team in 11-12 or 12-13 depending on who they sign, but that lack of any kind of decent young players is going to murder them.

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01-31-2010, 12:28 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Kessel is the epitome of a me-first forward, I watched him for 3 years in Boston, I don't think you win with guys like that as your best forward.

Bozak is a decent talent, but he's on a maximum ELC which is a whole lot for somebody who generally isn't regarded as an elite talent.

Schenn is definitely overpaid at 3 mill per year. ELCs aren't analyzed enough, for some reason, a lot of organizations feel some kind of obligation to give these guys max bonuses, Flyers handled it right with JVR.

Phaneuf is a massive question mark, this is a guy who has seriously regressed and was never great in his own zone to begin with. He makes more than Kimmo, more than Pronger, more than Green, same as Keith, nearly as much as Boyle, etc.
Your arguments are valid, but I don't think there should be exactly as much concern as you speculate. They are young players, and there's certainly room for improvement with all of them. They will get better. Phaneuf would obviously be the biggest concern if I was Burke, but he has the potential to be a force. If all goes wrong it could be a disaster, but if all goes well it could mean for a pretty good team.

Quote:
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Yeah, but it's not the instant salvation that Leafs fans think it will be.

They are going to be terrible next year (and don't have their pick that year either), no real prospects in the system, and they still have some pretty bad contracts.

I'd say they might be a bubble team in 11-12 or 12-13 depending on who they sign, but that lack of any kind of decent young players is going to murder them.
Oh of course. Don't miss it. The Leafs are a work in progress. This is nowhere near instant salvation.

They do have some really good prospects though. Don't count out their prospect pool. It's not spectacular, but it's not terrible.

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01-31-2010, 12:39 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Your arguments are valid, but I don't think there should be exactly as much concern as you speculate. They are young players, and there's certainly room for improvement with all of them. They will get better. Phaneuf would obviously be the biggest concern if I was Burke, but he has the potential to be a force. If all goes wrong it could be a disaster, but if all goes well it could mean for a pretty good team.
You don't know that at all. Kessel has shown 3.5 years of selfishness, you're saying he's suddenly going to turn around and start backchecking and playing unselfishly?

Schenn is a decent prospect, but far from a sure thing, same goes for Aulie and Bozak. I mean, Bozak had one good D-1 year, one year where he got hurt, and got a max level ELC and has done decently this year, but still, who knows?

And there is no guarantee Phaneuf gets better, the guy has been consistently weak defensively for more than 4 years, why is that going to change?

Quote:
Oh of course. Don't miss it. The Leafs are a work in progress. This is nowhere near instant salvation.

They do have some really good prospects though. Don't count out their prospect pool. It's not spectacular, but it's not terrible.
Who?

- Kadri is talented, but also undersized and an arrogant *********.
- Jesse Blacker?
- Kulemin was supposed to be the next coming and seems to have a 3rd line ceiling.
- Stefanovich had an awesome year last year, but may not even hit 30 goals this year.

I don't think they have any blue-chippers tbh and only have 1-2 good young guys on the current team.

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01-31-2010, 12:40 PM
  #98
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Obviously Giguere was a problem, but taking on that contract is not a successful deal IMO.
Why? He gives them a better chance to win - as a goaltender - than Toskala. $6M is too much, but they are the Leafs, money is not an issue. He is an expiring contract next year, whereas Jason Blake was not.

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01-31-2010, 12:40 PM
  #99
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Bozak makes almost 4 million a year? What the hell?

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01-31-2010, 12:41 PM
  #100
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Bozak makes almost 4 million a year? What the hell?
They really wanted him. If they didn't give it him, someone else would have.

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