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EDM/Fla Proposal

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Old
01-10-2005, 06:01 PM
  #51
Coolburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersRule
I think you could make a case that Horton had established himself in his rookie year as a dependable player for FLA. By saying this, I don't mean established the way you do. I mean it in a way that he showed FLA management that he was capable of producing in the NHL which led to a promotion on the 1rst line with Olli Jokinen. He had been playing 3rd line and then finally settled into his niche on the second line with Nedorost and Weiss. He "established" himself from November to mid December. After he showed he was a reliable player he started producing and he never did slow down. It was the injury that stopped him. That is different. Had he tailed off and not been injured, I'd agree with everything you are saying, but he went out performing at an amaizing level. I don't think Horton is years and years away. I'd say 2-3 years before he really becomes a threat if he ever does. Even next year he will be counted on for offense and could produce a lot.
This was exactly at the same time that he was switched from playing center to right wing. After that, he pretty much exclusively played wing, especially with Jokinen on the PP. So when people say FL has too many centers and they refer to Horton as a center, you can they tell didn't watch the Panthers play (or they don't understand the organization's plans to come up with an educated opinion).

Finding players like Hemsky and Semenov are a lot easier than finding players like Horton. The realistic downside to Horton is that he could be a Jason Arnott type of player (struggles with injuries but still an effective 2nd line physical player who consistently puts up 50 pts). His upside may not be much better than that but unless Semenov is the next Chara then its just not balanced enough.

Now the original trade offer isn't all that bad if Edmonton includes something into the deal. Brewer should be better than Van Ryn over the long haul for what FL needs but not enough better to include Olesz. And I'm probably the one of the biggest doubters of Olesz. The Oilers throw in Jani Rita and it would be a very fair deal IMO.

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Old
01-12-2005, 12:16 AM
  #52
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Just curious, what would the Oilers want in exchange for Brad Isbister straight up from the Panthers?

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Old
01-12-2005, 12:25 AM
  #53
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at this point 4th round pick at best

i still like Izzy but his time is running out but Keenan or Martin might whip him into shape

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01-12-2005, 12:37 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbar
Just curious, what would the Oilers want in exchange for Brad Isbister straight up from the Panthers?
Jay Bouwmeester. Nothing less will do.

In all seriousness, I think HemskyFreak83 hit the nail on the head. I don't think Isbister would fetch anything higher than a mid-round pick or a decent prospect. It's a good thing Lowe was able to re-sign him for less this offseason, otherwise he would be worth even less.

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01-12-2005, 11:00 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbar
Just curious, what would the Oilers want in exchange for Brad Isbister straight up from the Panthers?
No too much, mid pick. Dunno. No real need for him.

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Old
01-12-2005, 01:07 PM
  #56
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Izzy would be worth even less I think. I do not think his next season will be great at all. Instead of training the guy is playing in a beer league. How serious is that???

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Old
01-12-2005, 02:23 PM
  #57
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Schremp + Isbister for Van Ryan and Olesz


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Old
01-12-2005, 06:02 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersRule

There have been many rookies that leave huge marks in their first year, but most of them are more finesse players. Horton has the ability to dominate the NHL game as he showed in his 3 week span. Few rookies can dominate the game like Horton showed he was capable of. Chris Gratton and Brad Isbister were two guys who left early impacts and then cooled off and became average players, but because of Horton's upside which now that he's demonstrating that he can play well in the NHL, which some young rookie PFs don't even do in their first year, he has a lot of value. He may not become a top PF in the league but he has the ability and tools to and he's not far off from becoming a dependable 2nd liner or 1rst liner for FLA as he was THE go to guy for that stretch when the playoff picture really started to brighten.

I'm not trying to make an argument for or against Horton, but another young physical player who started out well and never again produced like he did as a youngster is Jason Arnott, as I'm sure most Oiler fans are familiar with.

In his rookie season (as an 18 year old) his stats were:

78 GP 33G 35A 68 pts 104 PIM

That was his career best year, for GP, G and pts, and his 3rd highest assist total as well

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01-13-2005, 10:42 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
I'm not trying to make an argument for or against Horton, but another young physical player who started out well and never again produced like he did as a youngster is Jason Arnott, as I'm sure most Oiler fans are familiar with.

In his rookie season (as an 18 year old) his stats were:

78 GP 33G 35A 68 pts 104 PIM

That was his career best year, for GP, G and pts, and his 3rd highest assist total as well
Well first Horton didn't put those stats up and wouldn't have if injury had not occured. Horton is hyped and touted very highly, i dunno how hyped Arnott was. Second of all those things happen and sure the same could happen to Horton but the more likely outcome is Horton becoming a very good/great player. Horton is FLA top prsopect and has a great shot at becoming an allstar. But even he doesn't we have got a lot of guys to fall back on like Stewart, Olesz etc. Because we have a great pool of prospects less presure is on Horton. Personally i'd rather have a POTENTIAL allstar player rather than a good second liner/ average top line player and a second pairing d-man. Semenov from what i've heard doesn't use his size and that is the one thing we need a big hitter.

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01-13-2005, 10:58 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
Well first Horton didn't put those stats up and wouldn't have if injury had not occured. Horton is hyped and touted very highly, i dunno how hyped Arnott was. Second of all those things happen and sure the same could happen to Horton but the more likely outcome is Horton becoming a very good/great player. Horton is FLA top prsopect and has a great shot at becoming an allstar. But even he doesn't we have got a lot of guys to fall back on like Stewart, Olesz etc. Because we have a great pool of prospects less presure is on Horton. Personally i'd rather have a POTENTIAL allstar player rather than a good second liner/ average top line player and a second pairing d-man. Semenov from what i've heard doesn't use his size and that is the one thing we need a big hitter.
Can you explain why it is more likely that Horton will be a very good/great player than Arnott is?

Simply because of hype before the draft?

It's a reasonable question... and you completely avoided it.

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Old
01-13-2005, 11:10 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Can you explain why it is more likely that Horton will be a very good/great player than Arnott is?

Simply because of hype before the draft?

It's a reasonable question... and you completely avoided it.
What Horton did suggests to me he'll be better than Arnott. Arnott is a good player, but not a great player. Horton has very upsides. Sure he could do what Arnott did and not go on from his rookie year but if he does go on he'll be better than Arnott. And read the IFS, i am not saying he will but he has good chance and when i said about his hype that didn't mean he will deliver. How much hype did Arnott get in his draft year and a couple of years on?

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Old
01-13-2005, 11:44 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
What Horton did suggests to me he'll be better than Arnott. Arnott is a good player, but not a great player. Horton has very upsides. Sure he could do what Arnott did and not go on from his rookie year but if he does go on he'll be better than Arnott. And read the IFS, i am not saying he will but he has good chance and when i said about his hype that didn't mean he will deliver. How much hype did Arnott get in his draft year and a couple of years on?

Well he was a 7th overall pick and put up some great numbers in his rookie year. We were all very excited about this guy and then he just kind of lost it upstairs and started letting his problems off ice turn into problems on ice.

But come on. A 7th overall pick that put up those numbers in his rookie year? You better believe he was hyped. Big time

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