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Flames-Rangers Trade Confirmed (Article post #76)

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Old
02-01-2010, 08:18 AM
  #51
Scoopyten
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post

Homer call up Sutter and offer Briere, straight up for Jokinen!!

Not a fan of Jokinen, but I love that he's a UFA on July 1st.

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02-01-2010, 08:22 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Thats good to hear.

Rangers are stuck with Kotalik for the next 2 years..

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Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
Homer call up Sutter and offer Briere, straight up for Jokinen!!

Not a fan of Jokinen, but I love that he's a UFA on July 1st.
I would love that type of trade if Flames add Moss/Boyd and their top 4 prospect.

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02-01-2010, 08:28 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
Homer call up Sutter and offer Briere, straight up for Jokinen!!

Not a fan of Jokinen, but I love that he's a UFA on July 1st.
I do like Briere, but this isn't a terrible idea.

EDIT: I guess outside of the NMC thing, I'm not a big fan of forcing a player to waive his NMC. If Briere didn't have it, it's a different story, but we made a commitment. It's a crappy thing to give a player an NMC and then try to get him to waive it a couple years later.

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02-01-2010, 08:32 AM
  #54
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Jokinen's been bad yeah but he's got the potential to earn those dollars. Don't know about the locker room cancer thingie, one can hear about it all the time so I guess it's somewhat true atleast at some level.

What comes to Jokinen feeding Gaborik... no. Olli is more of a shooter center, not so much a playmaker.

Put OJ and Gabby with a playmaker winger..... now that'll hurt!

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02-01-2010, 08:44 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I do like Briere, but this isn't a terrible idea.

EDIT: I guess outside of the NMC thing, I'm not a big fan of forcing a player to waive his NMC. If Briere didn't have it, it's a different story, but we made a commitment. It's a crappy thing to give a player an NMC and then try to get him to waive it a couple years later.
I honestly don't care about asking a guy to waive it. He was signed to be a 90 point player and number one center. He's failed to live up to that, be it because of injuries or whatever.

I only mentioned Briere because he's actually a fit for what Calgary needs.

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02-01-2010, 08:47 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by RockinRiles View Post
Jokinen's been bad yeah but he's got the potential to earn those dollars. Don't know about the locker room cancer thingie, one can hear about it all the time so I guess it's somewhat true atleast at some level.

What comes to Jokinen feeding Gaborik... no. Olli is more of a shooter center, not so much a playmaker.

Put OJ and Gabby with a playmaker winger..... now that'll hurt!

He's a big guy that can go to the net and score. I'd only be interested to get rid of the remaining 5 years of Briere's deal, not so much as adding Jokinen

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02-01-2010, 09:00 AM
  #57
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Dreger now says on twitter that he has no idea why the Kotalik-Jokinen deal is being held up and speculated there may be a third team involved

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02-01-2010, 09:02 AM
  #58
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Kotalik apparently has a NTC, which only 3 teams on it. One of them is Calgary. How the **** did Ales Kotalik get a NTC?


This is why you don't hand them out to just anyone.

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02-01-2010, 09:03 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
I honestly don't care about asking a guy to waive it. He was signed to be a 90 point player and number one center. He's failed to live up to that, be it because of injuries or whatever.

I only mentioned Briere because he's actually a fit for what Calgary needs.
He was signed to be a first line center and give growing time to two guys who absolutely surged way before anyone thought they would. He did it.

I don't remember the 90 point talk so much as I do the talk about filling a then-critical hole.

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02-01-2010, 09:05 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
He was signed to be a first line center and give growing time to two guys who absolutely surged way before anyone thought they would. He did it.

I don't remember the 90 point talk so much as I do the talk about filling a then-critical hole.
He was coming off a 95 point year. He was supposed to provide a dynamic offensive player and be a top scorer for the team. I can't blame him for signing, and I'm happy that they signed him instead of Drury or Gomez, but I have no qualms about asking him to waive his NMC.

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02-01-2010, 09:09 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
He was coming off a 95 point year. He was supposed to provide a dynamic offensive player and be a top scorer for the team. I can't blame him for signing, and I'm happy that they signed him instead of Drury or Gomez, but I have no qualms about asking him to waive his NMC.
You don't feel bad asking a dude getting paid 6.5M to play hockey...to do so in another city?

The only problem is that when you go that route...and the dude says no, it gets real awkward, real fast.

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02-01-2010, 09:18 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You don't feel bad asking a dude getting paid 6.5M to play hockey...to do so in another city?

The only problem is that when you go that route...and the dude says no, it gets real awkward, real fast.
It can, certainly...There's other factors. I think you have to make sure that you have a deal that can go through before you even hint that you're looking at a trade to the player.

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02-01-2010, 09:39 AM
  #63
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Bob McKenzie

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=308565
Quote:

It is expected that Olli Jokinen will be in the Calgary Flames' lineup when they play tonight in Calgary against the Philadelphia Flyers. Brandon Prust may also be in the lineup but it could be Brian McGrattan instead.

In any case, it is clear that the deal that looked on Sunday night as though it was agreed to - Jokinen and Prust to the New York Rangers in exchange for Chris Higgins and Alex Kotalik - is not going to happen over the course of today.

It's obviously possible the deal may not get done at all, but the mere fact that one or both players are in the Flames' lineup tonight doesn't mean for certain it won't get done either.

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02-01-2010, 09:41 AM
  #64
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It can, certainly...There's other factors. I think you have to make sure that you have a deal that can go through before you even hint that you're looking at a trade to the player.
In the interest of full disclosure since you're new around here: I would be ecstatic if we could trade Briere for a bag of pucks just to get out from under his contract.

If we could get someone to fill that gap between now and offseason spending to better use those funds...all the better. (In that sense, I would prefer to move Briere during an offseason when he wouldn't create a massive hole in the roster potentially.) I can at least stomach him when he's playing on the wing.

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02-01-2010, 09:58 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
In the interest of full disclosure since you're new around here: I would be ecstatic if we could trade Briere for a bag of pucks just to get out from under his contract.

If we could get someone to fill that gap between now and offseason spending to better use those funds...all the better. (In that sense, I would prefer to move Briere during an offseason when he wouldn't create a massive hole in the roster potentially.) I can at least stomach him when he's playing on the wing.
If they can move that deal and get a bosy to cover the hole short term, I am totally down with it.

I just see Gagne and Briere as dead space, or more accurately, as guys whose performance isn't going to equal their cap hit. Hartnell is possibly in the group, but he is young and could be having an off year. Gagne and Briere have had too many core injuries for guys that need their speed as much as they do.

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02-01-2010, 10:07 AM
  #66
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If they can move that deal and get a bosy to cover the hole short term, I am totally down with it.

I just see Gagne and Briere as dead space, or more accurately, as guys whose performance isn't going to equal their cap hit. Hartnell is possibly in the group, but he is young and could be having an off year. Gagne and Briere have had too many core injuries for guys that need their speed as much as they do.
I think Gagne is fine, people are just expecting too much from him given the fact that he basically had no training camp, and came in midseason. His hands are just not there yet...and he's getting his chances, so when he gets his hands back he'll start popping some goals. He's also slowly getting his legs back (he showed some real speed on a loose puck in the neutral zone against the Isles).

The difference between the two, is that when he's right Gagne is a stellar defensive player even if he's not scoring...Briere isn't. Briere is also very expensive for a wing on the decline.

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02-01-2010, 10:09 AM
  #67
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I think Gagne is fine, people are just expecting too much from him given the fact that he basically had no training camp, and came in midseason. His hands are just not there yet...and he's getting his chances, so when he gets his hands back he'll start popping some goals. He's also slowly getting his legs back (he showed some real speed on a loose puck in the neutral zone against the Isles).

The difference between the two, is that when he's right Gagne is a stellar defensive player even if he's not scoring...Briere isn't. Briere is also very expensive for a wing on the decline.
If Gagne can return to form, he's a better fit, no doubt.

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02-01-2010, 10:58 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You don't feel bad asking a dude getting paid 6.5M to play hockey...to do so in another city?

The only problem is that when you go that route...and the dude says no, it gets real awkward, real fast.
You have to remember that a lot of these guys have kids and etc. I mean, Briere uprooted his life in Buffalo after wanting to stay and moved his family down here for at least 8 years and unlike a lot of NMCs that Holmgren hands out, maybe this one was kind of important to him seeing as I believe he has a couple young kids.

So I mean, after making a commitment to a guy that you aren't going to deal him, to try to force him to waive that commitment after 2.5 years is kind of a scummy thing to do.

If he didn't have the NMC, I'd be very open to moving him because although he's been decent this year, he's certainly declining, a bit quicker than I expected tbh. But with the NMC, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth trying to get him to waive it.

Remember that the Flyers have a tremendous reputation as a place that's fantastic for players and I bet that helps us a lot when it comes to attracting FAs and etc. You think Pronger would be excited to come to a team that hasn't won anything for 34 years if we didn't have that tradition of a great hockey town with a lot of loyalty?

If the organization starts forcing guys to waive NTCs and etc., I think a lot of that rep goes down the drain.

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02-01-2010, 11:55 AM
  #69
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You have to remember that a lot of these guys have kids and etc. I mean, Briere uprooted his life in Buffalo after wanting to stay and moved his family down here for at least 8 years and unlike a lot of NMCs that Holmgren hands out, maybe this one was kind of important to him seeing as I believe he has a couple young kids.

So I mean, after making a commitment to a guy that you aren't going to deal him, to try to force him to waive that commitment after 2.5 years is kind of a scummy thing to do.

If he didn't have the NMC, I'd be very open to moving him because although he's been decent this year, he's certainly declining, a bit quicker than I expected tbh. But with the NMC, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth trying to get him to waive it.

Remember that the Flyers have a tremendous reputation as a place that's fantastic for players and I bet that helps us a lot when it comes to attracting FAs and etc. You think Pronger would be excited to come to a team that hasn't won anything for 34 years if we didn't have that tradition of a great hockey town with a lot of loyalty?

If the organization starts forcing guys to waive NTCs and etc., I think a lot of that rep goes down the drain.
You're kind of missing a key element here...if Briere doesn't want to go, he can say, "No." That means two things: 1) if he's not open to the idea of leaving Philly, then he's not going anywhere; and 2) he gets to control where he goes.

I feel MUCH worse for a guy like Upshall who just suddenly got a call saying thanks for the memories, here's a plane ticket.

Flyers signed a contract, and they will live up to it...just as Briere is living up to it (by playing hockey). But you shouldn't feel bad about asking the guy if he'd be willing to waive a NMC to go somewhere else if you have a deal on the table to improve your team. This isn't like stashing him in the minors or something. Not to mention, you won't see anything like what happened with Boyle in TB, because of the difference between a NTC and a NMC.

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02-01-2010, 12:09 PM
  #70
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NHL Home Ice on XM was saying on NHL Live that the trade is likely dead.

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02-01-2010, 12:14 PM
  #71
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Rangers are stuck with Kotalik for the next 2 years.
Ever amused by the suffering of other Atlantic organizations, I'm okay with that.

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02-01-2010, 12:18 PM
  #72
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can you imagine how pissed off Ranger fans are going to be if this trade falls through and the Flames deal Jokinen to another team in the Atlantic like the Isles?
they may not wait until March to stage that Fire Sather rally.

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02-01-2010, 12:32 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You're kind of missing a key element here...if Briere doesn't want to go, he can say, "No." That means two things: 1) if he's not open to the idea of leaving Philly, then he's not going anywhere; and 2) he gets to control where he goes.

I feel MUCH worse for a guy like Upshall who just suddenly got a call saying thanks for the memories, here's a plane ticket.

Flyers signed a contract, and they will live up to it...just as Briere is living up to it (by playing hockey). But you shouldn't feel bad about asking the guy if he'd be willing to waive a NMC to go somewhere else if you have a deal on the table to improve your team. This isn't like stashing him in the minors or something. Not to mention, you won't see anything like what happened with Boyle in TB, because of the difference between a NTC and a NMC.
Yeah, but as you yourself pointed out, that does make things awkward. I guess they can ask him, my issue would be more if they start leaning on him to do it. Say what you want about the guy, but he's been a class act since he got here, good with the media and Meltzer said a while back that he was playing with some family issues (dunno what that's about).

As for Upshall, I don't feel quite as bad for him just because he's a single guy, so leaving his friends certainly sucks, but it's not like he has to uproot his family. A lot of these older guys like the longterm deals because they get to settle down as well in an area, a luxury that most of the young guys don't need yet.

And obviously all of these guys are extraordinarily fortunate to get paid that much to play hockey in the first place.

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02-01-2010, 01:55 PM
  #74
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Yeah, but as you yourself pointed out, that does make things awkward. I guess they can ask him, my issue would be more if they start leaning on him to do it. Say what you want about the guy, but he's been a class act since he got here, good with the media and Meltzer said a while back that he was playing with some family issues (dunno what that's about).

As for Upshall, I don't feel quite as bad for him just because he's a single guy, so leaving his friends certainly sucks, but it's not like he has to uproot his family. A lot of these older guys like the longterm deals because they get to settle down as well in an area, a luxury that most of the young guys don't need yet.

And obviously all of these guys are extraordinarily fortunate to get paid that much to play hockey in the first place.
Well, my suggestion was kind of a throw away, and I doubt they could move anyone with a NTC/NMC before the end of the season anyhow.

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02-01-2010, 02:04 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
Well, my suggestion was kind of a throw away, and I doubt they could move anyone with a NTC/NMC before the end of the season anyhow.
Well, from a strict salary cap and business standpoint, it'd be a great idea assuming Calgary isn't clearing space for Kovy (I still don't see how they'd fit him).

They get a scorer who might need a change of scenery (or different linemates) and we get some much-needed cap flexibility.

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