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Rangers-Flames Trade Part 2 (Deal Still on Hold)

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:01 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
If Ryan Callahan is traded to land Olli Jokinen...I'm going to lose it, people.

+1

Screw the rally; I'm hosting a draft for Ranger fans, where they pick their new teams out of a hat.

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02-01-2010, 02:01 PM
  #77
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Couldn't Waddell get a huge ransom for Kovy if he allowed the agent to make a deal with the player? Why would he not do so? Is he being true to Kovy, who has stated he does not want to negotiate with anyone but Atlanta or go UFA?

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02-01-2010, 02:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
If callahan wouldn't be included in a deal for someone like Heatley or Mueller, why the hell would our alternate captain be included in a deal for a underacheiving soon to be UFA?
To be honest here... Jokinen is the better player than Callahan... I love the way Callahan plays but Jokinen can be a #1 or #2 center... He is only 31 years old, very good size and grit at 6'3" 215 lbs and can produce about 65 points or more.... As far as leadership and intangibles, Wasn't Jokinen a captain in the NHL?

As I mentioned..I love the way Callahan plays but Jokinen is the better player... No?

If Jokinen does well in NY, why not sign him to a UFA contract for about 3 years 3 million that Kotalik had signed for. Jokinen's value is low right now so maybe Sather can sign him to that salary cap figure.

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02-01-2010, 02:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by digbysellers View Post
That would be a somewhat decent return for Kovalchuck. At this point every GM knows that Atlanta can't keep him. This situation mirrors the Roy Halladay and Johan Santana trades. The team Kovy is going to still has to pay him. That, and the fact that Atlanta is supposedly stopping Kovy's agent from negotiating with other teams isn't helping Wadell. I'm not saying Higgins, White, and first would or should get this done, in large part because Higgins is a glorified third liner. I would think that yes, Calgary would need to include a better player then Higgins. That being said, it might get it done.
good post. leverage is something a lot of people forget when thinking about potential blockbusters.

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02-01-2010, 02:04 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Couldn't Waddell get a huge ransom for Kovy if he allowed the agent to make a deal with the player? Why would he not do so? Is he being true to Kovy, who has stated he does not want to negotiate with anyone but Atlanta or go UFA?
I think it may be Kovalchuk that doesn't want to negotiate during the season.
I still think his $11 mill per yr is about just getting out of Atlanta.

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02-01-2010, 02:05 PM
  #81
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I can say with almost 100% confidence they are not trading Callahan to the Flames. It just doesn't make sense.

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:06 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
To be honest here... Jokinen is the better player than Callahan... I love the way Callahan plays but Jokinen can be a #1 or #2 center... He is only 31 years old, very good size and grit at 6'3" 215 lbs and can produce about 65 points or more.... As far as leadership and intangibles, Wasn't Jokinen a captain in the NHL?

As I mentioned..I love the way Callahan plays but Jokinen is the better player... No?

If Jokinen does well in NY, why not sign him to a UFA contract for about 3 years 3 million that Kotalik had signed for. Jokinen's value is low right now so maybe Sather can sign him to that salary cap figure.
Jokinen has attitude problems and doesnt make anyone around him better.

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:08 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
To be honest here... Jokinen is the better player than Callahan... I love the way Callahan plays but Jokinen can be a #1 or #2 center... He is only 31 years old, very good size and grit at 6'3" 215 lbs and can produce about 65 points or more.... As far as leadership and intangibles, Wasn't Jokinen a captain in the NHL?

As I mentioned..I love the way Callahan plays but Jokinen is the better player... No?

If Jokinen does well in NY, why not sign him to a UFA contract for about 3 years 3 million that Kotalik had signed for. Jokinen's value is low right now so maybe Sather can sign him to that salary cap figure.
You know what would piss me off more than including Callahan in a trade for Jokinen? Re-signing Jokinen afterwards.

This deal should be a salary dump for the Rangers going forward. Jokinen is a player that could help down the stretch, but what makes him extremely attractive is the fact we can let him walk after this season.

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02-01-2010, 02:08 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
To be honest here... Jokinen is the better player than Callahan... I love the way Callahan plays but Jokinen can be a #1 or #2 center... He is only 31 years old, very good size and grit at 6'3" 215 lbs and can produce about 65 points or more.... As far as leadership and intangibles, Wasn't Jokinen a captain in the NHL?

As I mentioned..I love the way Callahan plays but Jokinen is the better player... No?

If Jokinen does well in NY, why not sign him to a UFA contract for about 3 years 3 million that Kotalik had signed for. Jokinen's value is low right now so maybe Sather can sign him to that salary cap figure.
I don't trade Callahan at all, but certainly not straight up for a head case like Jokinen. People on the Calgary boards aren't upset at losing Jokinen, they're upset at getting Kotalik. That should tell you something.

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02-01-2010, 02:11 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
I don't think it's happening, but I think you can make the simple argument that Sather is desperate now but wasn't in the summer. He thought he'd addressed scoring woes and improved the team with his signings and trades. Now he's on the outside of the playoff picture looking in, and his "fixes" have been anything but.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a GM traded a previously held-back player simply because that GM was under the gun.

Personally I'd be quite unhappy if Callahan went for Jokinen, but it would certainly make things interesting around here. The spin put on such a move by Sather's few supporters would be fascinating indeed.
Think of it this way then, on a team that can't score he's our next highest goal scorer after gaborik, it would be ludicrous for sather to trade him now

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02-01-2010, 02:13 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR censored View Post
+1

Screw the rally; I'm hosting a draft for Ranger fans, where they pick their new teams out of a hat.
Honestly...if they trade Cally and don't get Kovy or Iginla back...I'm rooting for the Avalanche from now on...

edit: I mean as part of this deal...obviously there are a lot more players other than Kovy and Iggy that I would trade Cally for...

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02-01-2010, 02:13 PM
  #87
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At least it's the same temperature in Calgary today as in NYC.

And Calgary is downright tropical compared to Edmonton.

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:17 PM
  #88
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Any one else think this is the same thing Murray pulled in Ottawa?

He nixed the deal because last minute he wanted dubinsky and Slats wouldnt budge.

Maybe at the last minute Sutter wanted Callahan instead of Higgins, or Gilroy instead of Kotalik, or vice versa, and Slats said no?

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:18 PM
  #89
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Can someone fill me in on what's happening? I know that the trade is on hold but is it going to go through and is a new trade emerging? They need to do something soon.

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02-01-2010, 02:19 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I can say with almost 100% confidence they are not trading Callahan to the Flames. It just doesn't make sense.
How does it not make sense?

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02-01-2010, 02:20 PM
  #91
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Is there any way we'll know the truth if the trade won't work out?

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02-01-2010, 02:20 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Rustingo12 View Post
Can someone fill me in on what's happening? I know that the trade is on hold but is it going to go through and is a new trade emerging? They need to do something soon.
Is it going to go through? Maybe. No one really knows.

Is a new trade emerging? There have been some rumblings to that effect, but nothing clear or definitive.

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02-01-2010, 02:21 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
Any one else think this is the same thing Murray pulled in Ottawa?

He nixed the deal because last minute he wanted dubinsky and Slats wouldnt budge.

Maybe at the last minute Sutter wanted Callahan instead of Higgins, or Gilroy instead of Kotalik, or vice versa, and Slats said no?
I guess that is Sather's strategy when he doesn't get his deal? Leak it to the media and let everyone get riled up in order to make the other GM look bad. The Buffoon from Banff is really getting on my nerves.

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:22 PM
  #94
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The Calgary Press affectionately refers to Jokinen's "team second" attitude. Says a lot.

Great trade to dump salary. Since we're giving up so little there isn't much downside. But you have to wonder why Calgary is willing to take so little in return. And don't discount that Jokinen could be on the move again before the trade deadline if it doesn't work out here and quickly.

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:23 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post

Maybe at the last minute Sutter wanted Callahan instead of Higgins, or Gilroy instead of Kotalik, or vice versa, and Slats said no?
interesting move. "leak" the rumor to the media... get NYR fans excited about Jokinen (although that didn't work). Then you kind of have to follow through (or at least have pressure to do so)

Honestly, the original deal just made zero sense.
Kotalik + Higgins = a big bag of suck + $5.25 in cap (and another 2 years for Kotalik)

Jokinen + Prust = 2 soon to be FAs, and an at worst-case #2 talented center.

There was no reason for Calgary to do that. They take on cap for the next 2 years, and only lose about $.5 million (prust) for this year. And the players DO NOT make them better

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:24 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
Any one else think this is the same thing Murray pulled in Ottawa?

He nixed the deal because last minute he wanted dubinsky and Slats wouldnt budge.

Maybe at the last minute Sutter wanted Callahan instead of Higgins, or Gilroy instead of Kotalik, or vice versa, and Slats said no?
Murray didn't pull out of a deal. He never wanted Rozsival. For that matter, he wanted Zherdev so much he didn't sign him when he became a UFA.

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02-01-2010, 02:25 PM
  #97
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Im thinking by doing this deal calgarys basically getting back the same amount of cap they traded to the rangers. However atl might want higgins+. So by trading away jokinens 5m and bringing in kotalik's 3m and higgins 2m and eventually trading higgins+ they for kovulchuck they're actually saving 2m.
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02-01-2010, 02:26 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Is it going to go through? Maybe. No one really knows.

Is a new trade emerging? There have been some rumblings to that effect, but nothing clear or definitive.
If the deal were dead, I would assume that either Sutter or Sather would have stated so by now. No reason not to comment if something has completely fallen through. MacKenzie is speculating that the Flames want Jokinen in their lineup against the Flyers, tonight. Deal could be announced after the game. If so, it's going to be a loooooong day.

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02-01-2010, 02:28 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
How does it not make sense?
We'd be giving up a very good third liner and team leader for a 2 month rental and to get Kotalik's contract off the books. If we need to trade Callahan to get rid of Kotalik, we might as well just bury him in the minors.

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02-01-2010, 02:28 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by nyr1994 View Post
Im thinking by doing this deal calgarys basically getting back the same amount of cap they traded to the rangers. However atl might want higgins+. So by trading away jokinens 5m and bringing in kotalik's 3m and higgins 2m and eventually trading higgins+ they for kovulchuck they're actually saving 2m.
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If ATL wanted Higgins and Kotalik, why not just deal with the Rangers? I know they might want to send him out West, but they owe to their fans and players to get the best deal out there.

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