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Rangers-Flames Trade Part 2 (Deal Still on Hold)

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02-01-2010, 01:29 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
We'd be giving up a very good third liner and team leader for a 2 month rental and to get Kotalik's contract off the books. If we need to trade Callahan to get rid of Kotalik, we might as well just bury him in the minors.
So how does the proposed move of Jokinen & Prust for Kotalik & Higgins make sense for Calgary?

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02-01-2010, 01:29 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If ATL wanted Higgins and Kotalik, why not just deal with the Rangers? I know they might want to send him out West, but they owe to their fans and players to get the best deal out there.
Probably because they want more than just Higgins and/or Kotalik.

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02-01-2010, 01:30 PM
  #103
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Probably because they want more than just Higgins and/or Kotalik.
Of course they do. THe Rangers have other things to offer.

My point is if Kotalik and Higgins are the starting point, why even get the Flames involved? Especially if Callahan is going to come up in conversation.

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02-01-2010, 01:31 PM
  #104
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We won't get answers til after the Flyers/Flames game.

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02-01-2010, 01:31 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
So how does the proposed move of Jokinen & Prust for Kotalik & Higgins make sense for Calgary?
It doesn't, which is why we were all pretty pumped about this steal of a trade. But the trade certainly won't go through with Callahan involved, unless Sather wants the rally moved up to this weekend.

Are you arguing with me for arguments sake or do you really think the Rangers would do Kotalik, Higgins, and Callahan for Jokinen and Proust?

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02-01-2010, 01:32 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If ATL wanted Higgins and Kotalik, why not just deal with the Rangers? I know they might want to send him out West, but they owe to their fans and players to get the best deal out there.
Because they dont have to deal in the conference AND they get the players they wanted anyways. Could also be that Sather is unwilling to give up the young player and the draft picks necessary.

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02-01-2010, 01:32 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
We won't get answers til after the Flyers/Flames game.
First time in my life ever I'm excited for a Flyers game the Rangers aren't involved in.

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02-01-2010, 01:34 PM
  #108
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Why is Callahan being speculated now?

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02-01-2010, 01:35 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Of course they do. THe Rangers have other things to offer.

My point is if Kotalik and Higgins are the starting point, why even get the Flames involved? Especially if Callahan is going to come up in conversation.
Well it could be that Sather doesn't want to lose any of his prized pieces (Staal, DZ, Lundqvist, Gaborik, Callahan, top prospects, etc.). So if Sather is only willing to part with players of the likes of Higgins, Kotalik, Redden, Rozsival, etc. then ATL will look elsewhere. If they really want Higgins in the deal, but want something that Calgary has, then Calgary can look to make the trade with NY and then send Higgins the other way. We see 3 ways every now and then, so it makes sense.

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02-01-2010, 01:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
Why is Callahan being speculated now?
because he has value, unlike Higgins or Kotalik.

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02-01-2010, 01:36 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I don't trade Callahan at all, but certainly not straight up for a head case like Jokinen. People on the Calgary boards aren't upset at losing Jokinen, they're upset at getting Kotalik. That should tell you something.
Interesting point about Jokinen and the Calgary fans... However, I still think Jokinen is the better player than Callahan.. Not sure what attitude problem he supposedly has, (who really knows what is happening behind the scenes in Calgary) All I know is the guy is 6'3" 215 pounds, plays with an edge, young enough at 31 years old and can produce around 65 points or so playing the #1 or #2 center position. He was also a captain in the NHL so I would think he does not have an attitude problem??

Anyway, if the first deal that was proposed which is Kotalik and Higgins for Jokinen and the other guy "forgot his name" does work out... This is an ABSOLUTE STEAL for the Rangers...

The Rangers get the best player in the trade and also gain huge cap relief next year by getting rid of Kotalik..... I have no idea why Calgary would make this trade...

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02-01-2010, 01:37 PM
  #112
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This must be what's holding it up.

The three way deal is probably true, and Kotalik's list of 3 teams includes Atlanta (reasonable).

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02-01-2010, 01:37 PM
  #113
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Kotalik improves their PP, which is currently ranked 23rd in the NHL.

Calgary has the bodies to drive the net, especially after Kotalik produces juicy rebounds.

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02-01-2010, 01:38 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
So how does the proposed move of Jokinen & Prust for Kotalik & Higgins make sense for Calgary?
No one said that it doesn't make sense for Calgary; it doesn't make sense for us. Why would we trade a young, two-way forward who's actually earning his money and is at least two and a half years away from UFA status just so that we could rid ourselves of Kotalik's salary. Kotalik's $3 million isn't an albatross contract. There's no need to give up a truly valuable asset just to rid ourselves of it. And yes, I trust that Sather feels the same way.

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02-01-2010, 01:39 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
It doesn't, which is why we were all pretty pumped about this steal of a trade. But the trade certainly won't go through with Callahan involved, unless Sather wants the rally moved up to this weekend.
I think Sather could care less about any potential Rally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Are you arguing with me for arguments sake or do you really think the Rangers would do Kotalik, Higgins, and Callahan for Jokinen and Proust?
I'm not sure what they would do. I have no faith in what this GM might do. What I am saying is Higgins and Kotalik for Jokinen and Prust makes no sense for Calgary. They don't clear capspace and give up the best player in the deal.

Do I include Callahan in the deal? No. But does it make the deal more plausible? Unfortunately, it does.

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02-01-2010, 01:39 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
Why is Callahan being speculated now?
Why? Because ESPN sucks at covering hockey, and cited and linked the TSN report, but for some reason swapped Callahan for Higgins. It was CLEARLY just an error on their part, but for some reason people are running with it here. Despite the fact that I've pointed out numerous times that the ESPN article said, "TSN reports Kotalik and Callahan," and then links to the TSN article reporting Kotalik and Higgins. But again, no one seems to care in the slightest...

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02-01-2010, 01:40 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Murray didn't pull out of a deal. He never wanted Rozsival. For that matter, he wanted Zherdev so much he didn't sign him when he became a UFA.
Murray wanted Dubinsky. Sather said no. Where did I mention Rozisval or Zherdev?

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02-01-2010, 01:40 PM
  #118
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Maybe it's SATHER who wants Jokinen in tonight's game vs. Philadelphia because we need them to lose? Hrm?

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02-01-2010, 01:41 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Because they dont have to deal in the conference AND they get the players they wanted anyways. Could also be that Sather is unwilling to give up the young player and the draft picks necessary.
The unwillingness to deal withnn conference is a possibility. But Kovalchuk can sign wherever he wants come 7/1.

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02-01-2010, 01:42 PM
  #120
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Murray wanted Dubinsky. Sather said no. Where did I mention Rozisval or Zherdev?
Rozsival and Zherdev were the Rangers offer. Murray didn't want those guys. So he never backed out of a deal.

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02-01-2010, 01:43 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
No one said that it doesn't make sense for Calgary; it doesn't make sense for us. Why would we trade a young, two-way forward who's actually earning his money and is at least two and a half years away from UFA status just so that we could rid ourselves of Kotalik's salary. Kotalik's $3 million isn't an albatross contract. There's no need to give up a truly valuable asset just to rid ourselves of it. And yes, I trust that Sather feels the same way.
i'm saying it doesn't make sense for Calgary. They get Higgins for the rest of the season, then he's UFA. And he really hasn't been wowing anyone this season, why would Calgary WANT that? They have tweener guys.

I could see them having some interest in Kotalik (he was awesome last year for Edmonton), but i'm sure they have seen him play this year. And it is a bad contract.

So to look at it from Calgary's point of view, they get Higgins as a rental (wooooo!!!!) and Kotalik for another 2 years... for Jokinen... someone who would actually be valuable in a playoff run. Besides, they could easily get more for him, IMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm not sure what they would do. I have no faith in what this GM might do. What I am saying is Higgins and Kotalik for Jokinen and Prust makes no sense for Calgary. They don't clear capspace and give up the best player in the deal.

Do I include Callahan in the deal? No. But does it make the deal more plausible? Unfortunately, it does.
SBOB words it better here. Which is why I think Callahan would be part of it. Callahan is on a different level in terms of value, compared to Prust, Higgins and Kotalik

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02-01-2010, 01:43 PM
  #122
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Hartford is an option for Ales.

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02-01-2010, 01:45 PM
  #123
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The way I see it, I don't see the Rangers giving up anything of value solely to get a bad contract off their books. There's no reason for it when they can just send Kotalik or Redden down to the minors.

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02-01-2010, 01:47 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Interesting point about Jokinen and the Calgary fans... However, I still think Jokinen is the better player than Callahan.. Not sure what attitude problem he supposedly has, (who really knows what is happening behind the scenes in Calgary) All I know is the guy is 6'3" 215 pounds, plays with an edge, young enough at 31 years old and can produce around 65 points or so playing the #1 or #2 center position. He was also a captain in the NHL so I would think he does not have an attitude problem??

Anyway, if the first deal that was proposed which is Kotalik and Higgins for Jokinen and the other guy "forgot his name" does work out... This is an ABSOLUTE STEAL for the Rangers...

The Rangers get the best player in the trade and also gain huge cap relief next year by getting rid of Kotalik..... I have no idea why Calgary would make this trade...
I don't disagree that Jokinen is the better player, but citing the fact that he's a former captain doesn't say anything about attitude problems. Lindros, Jagr, Kovalchuk, Turgeon, Yashin.... There are plenty of former captains who have had accusations of attitude problems.

Also, while Jokinen is probably the more impactful player than Callahan, he's still overpaid, on the decline, and likely won't be here for more than a couple months of this seemingly lost season. So just because we get the best player in the deal doesn't make it a win.

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02-01-2010, 01:48 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Mr Bojanglez View Post
i'm saying it doesn't make sense for Calgary. They get Higgins for the rest of the season, then he's UFA. And he really hasn't been wowing anyone this season, why would Calgary WANT that? They have tweener guys.

I could see them having some interest in Kotalik (he was awesome last year for Edmonton), but i'm sure they have seen him play this year. And it is a bad contract.

So to look at it from Calgary's point of view, they get Higgins as a rental (wooooo!!!!) and Kotalik for another 2 years... for Jokinen... someone who would actually be valuable in a playoff run. Besides, they could easily get more for him, IMO



SBOB words it better here. Which is why I think Callahan would be part of it. Callahan is on a different level in terms of value, compared to Prust, Higgins and Kotalik
Callahan will not be traded for a rental. Jokinen is not producing in Calgary and apparently he wasn't planning on resigning.

Kotalik has been a 20g scorer for the better part of his career. He can also play the PP.

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