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Phaneuf, Giguere traded to Leafs, part of two separate trades

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Old
02-01-2010, 03:36 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Please do not be a homer.. No way Flyers win 5 ,Komie and Parent or Komie and Coburn or even Carle.. You put Parent, Coburn or Carle ahead? Are you nuts? Parent can not even get out of the hospital, Coburn can not get his **** together playing with Timonen. What did they do to deserve anything, really? Komie was top hitter and shot blocker in the league for at least 3-4 years. How can you take that away from him? Between him and Volchnekov who else was that good? Schenn is what? 20 years old? 19? You think Parent is better then Shceen?

Carle.. Mr.I do not kill penalties or play physical game and turn the puck over. Between him a Bouche.. debatable. Depends on your needs. Bouch was excellent in that cup run. Stepped in when Pronger was suspended did everything right. Can Carle do that? Did he ever? Will he?

Of course some of the leafs UFA signing may not work out in 1st year. That’s why you can not objectively judge them in 1st year.

I am not going to bash Flyers players but you are being very unreasonable. After 1st where most fans will take Pronger over Phaneuf (rightfully so) and Timonen over Kaberle might be very well a wash I will give an edge to Toronto with the rest especially with Giggy in the net.
Firstly, please don't insult me by calling me a homer just because my views and philosophies on certain things differ from yours. I don't appreciate it when it's fans from other boards. I don't appreciate it when it's NWO. And I don't appreciate it now. I do a lot of work with hockey and always try to give my honest opinion on the situation regardless of how it makes specific players look. I don't leave out details or try to cheat anyone out of anything, so please, don't do it.

Honestly, I based all of this on my thoughts about the players in the current season. History played no roll in this really. I don't think that Komisarek has been playing that well. I think he was generally overrated to begin with. Besides that, as I mentioned before, my philosophy is that a defensive defenseman's duties are fairly black and white. There's no room to guess about how much offensive talents weigh against defensive responsibilities, or any of that nonsense. Black and white, I feel Parent has done a much more consistent job this season when healthy than Komisarek has when healthy.

I also don't know where all of this hatred for Emery is coming from. He's been a little sloppy with the puck since returning from injury. That's to be expected. Give him a little time. Once he is more comfortable, I think he will start fighting it off less.

While I admit that I do believe most starting goaltenders are pretty much interchangeable between teams, Giggy has not had all that great of a season even while backing up Hiller who has been decent at the very least.

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02-01-2010, 03:49 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
We have to put up with quite a bit, as do the other Canadian members...especially the ones in Leaf-Land. However, it's more humourous and pipe-dreamish than anything. My Pops, a die-hard Leafs fan (god bless his heart) called me when Team Canada announced it's Olympic roster. He seemed pretty happy (at the time) that Phaneuf wasn't on the team and then went on about how overrated he felt he was. For the record, I did/do agree.

His text this afternoon, yeah. You'd swear Phaneuf was a shoe-in for the Norris.
I had my only fun living in DC. The school I went to was a haven for all the northeast US, so you had kids from Boston, NY, Pittsburgh, Philly, NJ, and DC/Baltimore.

Needless to say, half of my time (not spent enjoying "recreational activities") was spent either playing football or arguing over hockey with Penguins fans, Rangers fans, Devils fans, Bruins fans, Caps fans, and even other Flyers fans. I tried to surround myself with people who knew about hockey; mostly the school hockey team and girls that followed the team around.

I was actually kind of impressed that I could meet up with so many people who actually liked hockey in the States.

There was also quite a few people who didn't care about hockey. Some of my best friends were actually ESPN-worshipers, which is pretty annoying.

So yeah, don't take things for granted. I would love to, for once in my life, get a girlfriend I didn't have to con or blackmail into going to a hockey game.


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02-01-2010, 03:53 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Firstly, please don't insult me by calling me a homer just because my views and philosophies on certain things differ from yours. I don't appreciate it when it's fans from other boards. I don't appreciate it when it's NWO. And I don't appreciate it now. I do a lot of work with hockey and always try to give my honest opinion on the situation regardless of how it makes specific players look. I don't leave out details or try to cheat anyone out of anything, so please, don't do it.

Honestly, I based all of this on my thoughts about the players in the current season. History played no roll in this really. I don't think that Komisarek has been playing that well. I think he was generally overrated to begin with. Besides that, as I mentioned before, my philosophy is that a defensive defenseman's duties are fairly black and white. There's no room to guess about how much offensive talents weigh against defensive responsibilities, or any of that nonsense. Black and white, I feel Parent has done a much more consistent job this season when healthy than Komisarek has when healthy.
I also don't know where all of this hatred for Emery is coming from. He's been a little sloppy with the puck since returning from injury. That's to be expected. Give him a little time. Once he is more comfortable, I think he will start fighting it off less.

While I admit that I do believe most starting goaltenders are pretty much interchangeable between teams, Giggy has not had all that great of a season even while backing up Hiller who has been decent at the very least.
Calling it like I see it. Anyone who is comparing anyone based on 28 games.

28 game 2A and minus 5 on a much better team, he's had some serious back issues throughout his career and is playing on a much better team. He is an outstanding young player whos NHL career did not even start yet. He may be better then Komie in the fuiture. Might be.. Not a fact.

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02-01-2010, 03:58 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Calling it like I see it.

28 game 2A and minus 5 on a much better team, he's had some serious back issues throughout his career and is playing on a much better team. He is an outstanding young player whos NHL career did not even start yet.
Fair enough. Your argument is valid enough. Honestly, from what I've seen of Parent healthy, I really like what he brings to the table.

I could just be biased with shut-down defenseman. I've always given them much more credit than many do for their abilities, sometimes even among the writers here at HF. I've found myself sticking up for Alzner on a number of occasions in particular.

Komisarek is a shut-down defenseman of course, but I'm not necessarily a fan. He has not impressed me this season, nor did he impress me much last year. Granted, I got to see much more of him with Montreal, back when I had center ice, but from all accounts, he has had an absolutely awful year when healthy. Parent, when healthy, was playing great.

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02-01-2010, 04:04 PM
  #230
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Age aside:

Pronger>Kaberle
Timonen>Phaneuf
Carle>=<Beauchemin
Coburn>Komisarek
Schenn>=<Parent
Finger>Syvret/Bart/whoever

Coburn, even with his mistakes is way better than Komisarek. Carle and beauch could go either way, same with Schenn and PArent since neither have proved anything in the NHL yet.

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02-01-2010, 04:10 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Age aside:

Pronger>Kaberle
Timonen>Phaneuf
Carle>=<Beauchemin
Coburn>Komisarek
Schenn>=<Parent
Finger>Syvret/Bart/whoever

Coburn, even with his mistakes is way better than Komisarek. Carle and beauch could go either way, same with Schenn and PArent since neither have proved anything in the NHL yet.
I agree with that except for the Schenn = Parent thing. Based off of last + this season Schenn would be ahead. Also Parent's injury problems is not a help

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02-01-2010, 04:22 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Fair enough. Your argument is valid enough. Honestly, from what I've seen of Parent healthy, I really like what he brings to the table.

I could just be biased with shut-down defenseman. I've always given them much more credit than many do for their abilities, sometimes even among the writers here at HF. I've found myself sticking up for Alzner on a number of occasions in particular.

Komisarek is a shut-down defenseman of course, but I'm not necessarily a fan. He has not impressed me this season, nor did he impress me much last year. Granted, I got to see much more of him with Montreal, back when I had center ice, but from all accounts, he has had an absolutely awful year when healthy. Parent, when healthy, was playing great.
I agree with you Chris....I have a lot of respect for shut-down dmen. I like the little that we have seen from Parent. Hopefully he can get past these injury issues. As for Komisarek, the little that I have seen of him I am not that impressed. He is big and physical, that is about it. Not the best skater and not the best positionally....Essentially, he is Hatcher without the brains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Age aside:

Pronger>Kaberle
Timonen>Phaneuf
Carle>=<Beauchemin
Coburn>Komisarek
Schenn>=<Parent
Finger>Syvret/Bart/whoever

Coburn, even with his mistakes is way better than Komisarek. Carle and beauch could go either way, same with Schenn and PArent since neither have proved anything in the NHL yet.
Agreed, other than I would take Beauchemin about Carle in a heartbeat....Although I tend to be a little biased against one-dimensional offensive dmen.

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02-01-2010, 04:31 PM
  #233
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I am very surpised by this. Were they atleast involved in the excitement today or just lost interest all together?
My sister was a Leafs fanatic in the same way I'm a Flyers fanatic. We don't even talk hockey any more because she has stopped watching. She has no idea who the players are and pretty much stopped watching when Gilmour and Cujo left. Another friend only watches to see the Laffs lose (he's rarely disappointed) and 2 others were emailing me like mad yesterday but it was just because they got caught up in the hype.

I don't think the interest is there like it was when we were kids in the 70s. I know they sell out and they have ridiculously expensive seats but there is a lot of indifference here now. Part of it is cultural because a lot of immigrants didn't grow up with hockey, but most of it is due to one crappy season after another. We ***** about the Flyers but at least they've been in the playoffs and have gotten to the conference finals.

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02-01-2010, 05:01 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Or perhaps a Joni Pitkanen with a little more umph in his stride?
You know Phaneuf is no longer overrated when he is compared to Pitkanen.

His situation isn't similar to Pitkanen. Phaneuf has averaged over 50 points a year up until this season. In comparison Pronger averaged over 30 points a year his during his first four full seasons (I didn't count the half of season he played to make it fair.) Phaneuf has also received votes for the Norris every year including a 2nd place finish. He has had a heck of a start to his career. It's silly that people are making so much out of his struggles. Yes, he has issues with his defense, but he's only 24 and defenseman tend to peak later than forwards. I think he has a good chance of reaching his upside, certainly much better than Pitkanen.

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02-01-2010, 05:03 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
You know Phaneuf is no longer overrated when he is compared to Pitkanen.

His situation isn't similar to Pitkanen. Phaneuf has averaged over 50 points a year up until this season. In comparison Pronger averaged over 30 points a year his during his first four full seasons (I didn't count the half of season he played to make it fair.) Phaneuf has also received votes for the Norris every year including a 2nd place finish. He has had a heck of a start to his career. It's silly that people are making so much out of his struggles. Yes, he has issues with his defense, but he's only 24 and defenseman tend to peak later than forwards. I think he has a good chance of reaching his upside, certainly much better than Pitkanen.
But he may put up a -30 for the next 10 years on the Leafs.

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02-01-2010, 05:09 PM
  #236
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But he may put up a -30 for the next 10 years on the Leafs.
Most players would.

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02-01-2010, 05:20 PM
  #237
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This is a pretty good read.
Quote:
Phaneuf's trend of doing what he wants has continued in Toronto on Monday. As after Monday morning's practice, he walked into the Leafs locker room and reportedly took over what music was being played.

Leafs bench boss Ron Wilson was quoted as saying that he liked Phaneuf's "swagger." However it is something that could rub his teammates the wrong way. Especially the Leafs other bruising defenceman Mike Komisarek who has a history with Phaneuf's girlfriend, actress Elisha Cuthbert.

Not only are there are chemistry issues with Phaneuf, there also appear to be potential issues with J.S. Giguere and Jonas Gustavsson.

After Monday's practice, Ron Wilson told the media that Giguere would get the bulk of the starts in goal the rest of the way over Gustavsson. That's a sharp contrast compared to last week when Wilson stated that Gustavsson would get the majority of starts the rest of the season over then Leafs goalie Vesa Toskala.

Giguere was also asked what his role would be with the club. If he was there to mentor Gustavsson the way he mentored Jonas Hiller in Anaheim. Giguere however said his move to Toronto had nothing to do with being a mentor for The Monster.

"I'm not here to be his coach." Giguere explained.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ken-B...ters/133/25946

Who the hell does Phaneuf think he is lol. What an ass.

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02-01-2010, 05:22 PM
  #238
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Monster has had health issues this year, he shouldnt be overworked anyway

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02-01-2010, 05:24 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Most players would.
No, most would put up a -50 so I guess he will add something to the team.

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02-01-2010, 05:31 PM
  #240
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HAHA I forgot Komisarek used to be Elisha Cuthbert's boyfriend. Gold.

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02-01-2010, 05:36 PM
  #241
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HAHA I forgot Komisarek used to be Elisha Cuthbert's boyfriend. Gold.
They need to trade for Avery. I'd watch that team.

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02-02-2010, 07:49 AM
  #242
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Fair enough. Your argument is valid enough. Honestly, from what I've seen of Parent healthy, I really like what he brings to the table.
I do too.. He really showed what he can do playing with Timonen there for a few games. I hope he keeps it up.

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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I could just be biased with shut-down defenseman. I've always given them much more credit than many do for their abilities, sometimes even among the writers here at HF. I've found myself sticking up for Alzner on a number of occasions in particular.

Komisarek is a shut-down defenseman of course, but I'm not necessarily a fan. He has not impressed me this season, nor did he impress me much last year. Granted, I got to see much more of him with Montreal, back when I had center ice, but from all accounts, he has had an absolutely awful year when healthy. Parent, when healthy, was playing great.
Komie is having a so-so year. No argument from me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
You know Phaneuf is no longer overrated when he is compared to Pitkanen.

His situation isn't similar to Pitkanen. Phaneuf has averaged over 50 points a year up until this season. In comparison Pronger averaged over 30 points a year his during his first four full seasons (I didn't count the half of season he played to make it fair.) Phaneuf has also received votes for the Norris every year including a 2nd place finish. He has had a heck of a start to his career. It's silly that people are making so much out of his struggles. Yes, he has issues with his defense, but he's only 24 and defenseman tend to peak later than forwards. I think he has a good chance of reaching his upside, certainly much better than Pitkanen.
I agree with this. What I really like about Burkes moves is that he did not spend a lot. No 1st round picks, no top prospects. If he gets rid of Finger I would give him a A- for this season.


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02-02-2010, 08:11 AM
  #243
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My sister was a Leafs fanatic in the same way I'm a Flyers fanatic. We don't even talk hockey any more because she has stopped watching. She has no idea who the players are and pretty much stopped watching when Gilmour and Cujo left. Another friend only watches to see the Laffs lose (he's rarely disappointed) and 2 others were emailing me like mad yesterday but it was just because they got caught up in the hype.

I don't think the interest is there like it was when we were kids in the 70s. I know they sell out and they have ridiculously expensive seats but there is a lot of indifference here now. Part of it is cultural because a lot of immigrants didn't grow up with hockey, but most of it is due to one crappy season after another. We ***** about the Flyers but at least they've been in the playoffs and have gotten to the conference finals.

That is really a shame. It's Canada!!! It's what I love about Canada (Toronto specifically). Every time I have gone up there in the past, I would get into random conversations with strangers about hockey. It's the reason why I love it up there!

What do they pay attention to now? Curling? CFL? Mike Weir? I hope not Basketball...

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02-02-2010, 09:43 PM
  #244
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Giguere got a shutout in his debut against the Debs.

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02-02-2010, 09:52 PM
  #245
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Oh and Phaneuf got in a fight. Kept his visor on

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02-02-2010, 09:56 PM
  #246
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Hahah wow.
That's funny about Toronto.

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02-02-2010, 10:20 PM
  #247
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Hahah wow.
That's funny about Toronto.
Don't go to their board... some are saying its Stanely Cup time

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02-03-2010, 03:09 AM
  #248
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What I really like about Burkes moves is that he did not spend a lot. No 1st round picks, no top prospects. If he gets rid of Finger I would give him a A- for this season.
Phil Kessel wasn't traded for a 5th round draft pick and two tickets to the ACC.
That trade could potentially turn out to be one of the worst in the last 10 years. Don't get me wrong, Kessel is a great young player, but you don't build your team around a guy that is a one dimensional winger. I'm in now way comparing these two players, but we all see now and have seen over the last couple years how hard it is, to find a number one center for Iginla, when you have spent most of your salary on dmen.

And if you think it through, you don't trade your first this year, the year after it and a second for Phil Kessel. Well, your team sucks and you know it, so you can plan on picking either Hall, Seguin or Fowler. Probably it turns out to be Fowler, which means you don't have to trade for a "stud d-man" in Phaneuf. This allows you to trade the assets spent on Phaneuf to get either more picks in a decent draft class or use those assets to get young players with potential to be better than those you traded away, especially on the forwards position.

That being said, I like Burke, I like the way he structures his teams but I think, if you would've given him a bit more time, he could have done a much better job. He's forced to build a team that can compete for a playoff spot now, and that could hurt the Maple Leafs' chance at being a Stanley Cup contender in 4-5 years.

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02-03-2010, 05:57 AM
  #249
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Phil Kessel wasn't traded for a 5th round draft pick and two tickets to the ACC.
That trade could potentially turn out to be one of the worst in the last 10 years. Don't get me wrong, Kessel is a great young player, but you don't build your team around a guy that is a one dimensional winger. I'm in now way comparing these two players, but we all see now and have seen over the last couple years how hard it is, to find a number one center for Iginla, when you have spent most of your salary on dmen.

And if you think it through, you don't trade your first this year, the year after it and a second for Phil Kessel. Well, your team sucks and you know it, so you can plan on picking either Hall, Seguin or Fowler. Probably it turns out to be Fowler, which means you don't have to trade for a "stud d-man" in Phaneuf. This allows you to trade the assets spent on Phaneuf to get either more picks in a decent draft class or use those assets to get young players with potential to be better than those you traded away, especially on the forwards position.

That being said, I like Burke, I like the way he structures his teams but I think, if you would've given him a bit more time, he could have done a much better job. He's forced to build a team that can compete for a playoff spot now, and that could hurt the Maple Leafs' chance at being a Stanley Cup contender in 4-5 years.
I want to like Burke, but he has blown his chance to win the Cup in Toronto already. He had carte blanche. He should have tanked last year, like we all thought he would. Then he'd have Tavares, Duchene or Hedman instead of Kadri. And if he'd traded Kaberle when he had the chance, he'd have another couple prospects already in the hopper.

Then, instead of making what will likely be the worst trade in NHL history to get Kessel, he could sell another bottom of the barrel finish this year and get Taylor Hall or Fowler or Seguin.

And instead of signing a stiff like Komisarek, he could have saved cap room and picked up Kovalchuk now too - he's better than Kessel.

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02-03-2010, 08:17 AM
  #250
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Phil Kessel wasn't traded for a 5th round draft pick and two tickets to the ACC.
That trade could potentially turn out to be one of the worst in the last 10 years. Don't get me wrong, Kessel is a great young player, but you don't build your team around a guy that is a one dimensional winger. I'm in now way comparing these two players, but we all see now and have seen over the last couple years how hard it is, to find a number one center for Iginla, when you have spent most of your salary on dmen.
D-nce and goaltending win championships. He did not spent anything, he invested! There is a difference.
Kabs has value, Komisarek has value, Beauchemin has value. The only player on Leafs team that does not have any value is Finger.
When I said he did not trade 1st round picks or top prospect, obviously I was talking about last two trades for J. Giguere and Phaneuf.

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That being said, I like Burke, I like the way he structures his teams but I think, if you would've given him a bit more time, he could have done a much better job. He's forced to build a team that can compete for a playoff spot now, and that could hurt the Maple Leafs' chance at being a Stanley Cup contender in 4-5 years.
premature statement. Burke did not hurt Leafs yet. If anything Giggy could be the diffeence maker. You know..

He got rid of Toskala and Blake and thinking about moving Finger. He added Kessel, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Phaneuf, top 5 enforcer Orr, J. Giguere, good PK Sjostrom. This is quality, not quantity. He is creating a very tough fast skating physical team with better goaltending. Giggy used to be good, very good. He is overpaying and not all of his moves are perfect but he is creating a much better team.

He will make a few moves around trade dead lines for Poni, trys to dump Exelby. Who knows what he will do.

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