HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Scott Hartnell: still untouchable?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-02-2010, 09:42 AM
  #26
mikedifr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,359
vCash: 500
Untouchable? Probably not....Very few players in this league are untouchable. However, until you find me another power forward to play in our top 6 so that we arent charmin soft.....I would not move him.

mikedifr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 09:45 AM
  #27
FlyingPhish
 
FlyingPhish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
if someone can step up and actually play in front of the net then maybe. i so miss knuble

FlyingPhish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 09:46 AM
  #28
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
If Flyers are making a power move at the dead line I would look into Hartnell for Tuomo Ruutu type of trade. If there is interest on both sides. Not straight up of course, I think Hartnell is a better player and he does not have health issues.

Maybe we can grab Cullen or even Whitney by adding a pick or a prospect.
Ruutu doesn't have health issues either. Over the past six years of his career, Ruutu has played the following amount of games: 82, 15, 71, 77, 79, and 39 so far this year (missed 11 games so far with a shoulder injury). For the type of game he plays, he's going to miss some time. Anyways, he's fairly durable and if he misses a handful of games, well, that's what you get for the type of game that Ruutu plays.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 09:49 AM
  #29
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Ruutu doesn't have health issues either. Over the past six years of his career, Ruutu has played the following amount of games: 82, 15, 71, 77, 79, and 39 so far this year (missed 11 games so far with a shoulder injury). For the type of game he plays, he's going to miss some time. Anyways, he's fairly durable and if he misses a handful of games, well, that's what you get for the type of game that Ruutu plays.
Had no idea. I always thought he had back issues since his early years with Hawks.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 09:49 AM
  #30
IrishSniper87
Registered User
 
IrishSniper87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Media, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,402
vCash: 500
Ruutu's cap hit isn't much lower then Hartnell's, but his contract is shorter!

IrishSniper87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 01:27 PM
  #31
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,836
vCash: 500
FWIW, Doug MacLean was saying today that Dallas and a couple of other teams are interested in him. I don't know how well connected he is but he was praising him like crazy. Mind you, he also said firing Stevens was a big mistake and that Lavi wouldn't make a difference.

MsWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 01:29 PM
  #32
Scoopyten
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Montreal fans apparently want him. They've made that abundantly clear. They just want to give up D'Agostini + White + 2nd for him.
I'm down with that.

Scoopyten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 01:42 PM
  #33
FlyersRKings
Registered User
 
FlyersRKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Philly suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Untouchable? Probably not....Very few players in this league are untouchable. However, until you find me another power forward to play in our top 6 so that we arent charmin soft.....I would not move him.
Hartnell leads the league in minor penalties.

I'll allow you to take that in.

I'll be 'Charmin' soft' if it means cutting those out of the picture. Enough said.

FlyersRKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 01:43 PM
  #34
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,678
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
FWIW, Doug MacLean was saying today that Dallas and a couple of other teams are interested in him. I don't know how well connected he is but he was praising him like crazy. Mind you, he also said firing Stevens was a big mistake and that Lavi wouldn't make a difference.
MacLean and Scott Burnside both drank out of the same maddog 20/20 bottle appearantly

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 01:46 PM
  #35
Scoopyten
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
MacLean and Scott Burnside both drank out of the same maddog 20/20 bottle appearantly
Nah, they're just both idiots.

Scoopyten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 03:45 PM
  #36
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,868
vCash: 500
as I mentioned earlier, I'm wondering if it's too late to go back to San Jose to see if they're still interested in dealing Clowe for Hartnell straight up.....

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 03:53 PM
  #37
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Untouchable? Probably not....Very few players in this league are untouchable. However, until you find me another power forward to play in our top 6 so that we arent charmin soft.....I would not move him.
Hartnell is an idiot who continually costs this team with stupid penalties that aren't a result of physical play. It's different if the penalties are of the roughing/fighting variety. Hartnell's penalties are the result of a lack of discipline (high sticking, cross checking, tripping). That's what infuriates me about the guy. He has no discipline at all and continually does stupid things to get in the box. For instance, in the game against New York before going on the road, a New York player cuts to the front of the net and fans on a shot. Hartnell cross checks the guy and gets two for cross checking. Fast forward to the game against Calgary last night and the same thing happens again. A Calgary player goes to the front of the net, fans on a shot, and Hartnell cross checks the guy and gets two for cross checking. It's stupid and unnecessary penalties like that that cause all sorts of issues.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 04:44 PM
  #38
FlyersRKings
Registered User
 
FlyersRKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Philly suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Hartnell has 12 goals and 17 assists for 29 points in 53 games. It's upsetting to see him fall this far, considering that no one of the calibre that his statistics indicate should have been given a NTC.

Even the 30 goal scorer he was last year - would you really give a 30 goal scorer a NTC?

Better idea: Package what is now left of Simon Gagne (sad) with Hartnell to L.A. for that pick and maybe a guy like Frolov. Still think he's an upgrade over Hartnell and Gagne. Then talk Kovy, if you still think we can fit him under the cap.

FlyersRKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 04:47 PM
  #39
Hollywood Couturier
Moderator
 
Hollywood Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Hartnell has 12 goals and 17 assists for 29 points in 53 games. It's upsetting to see him fall this far, considering that no one of the calibre that his statistics indicate should have been given a NTC.

Even the 30 goal scorer he was last year - would you really give a 30 goal scorer a NTC?

Better idea: Package what is now left of Simon Gagne (sad) with Hartnell to L.A. for that pick and maybe a guy like Frolov. Still think he's an upgrade over Hartnell and Gagne. Then talk Kovy, if you still think we can fit him under the cap.
Gagne also has a NTC which I highly doubt he will waive.

__________________

"I Came Here To Bury Caesar, Not Praise Him" - Roy Halladay
Hollywood Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 04:52 PM
  #40
FlyersRKings
Registered User
 
FlyersRKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Philly suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
Gagne also has a NTC which I highly doubt he will waive.
Probably true, but I can dream .

I wonder if he would have negative trade value at this point, seeing how he pretty clearly is never going to completely recover from his injuries.

God I hope I'm wrong.

FlyersRKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 05:17 PM
  #41
Teezax
Registered User
 
Teezax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,352
vCash: 500
He can go but his wife can stay

Teezax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 05:26 PM
  #42
Terence Peterman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatum Biggs View Post
a down year? he is right on par. every year, the guy leads the league in minor PIMs. I am sick of it. I used to stick up for the guy before he became a fan favorite, but I am sick of it. he is like a dog that you love, but it keeps pissing and crapping everywhere. you've done everything you can to train him, but maybe its time for him to go out west, where its wide open, and people dont really care if you pee and crap everywhere. I dont know if I am making any sense, but yeah. its like that. he is dumb.

dont worry about his trade value. he is a proven 20 goal scorer, and like you said, after scoring 30, you would almost expect a down year. the problem is, you would think he would try to fix the aspects of the game he can control... dumb penalties. carcillo did it, why cant #19? because, then he wouldnt be Nott Smartnell.
Yes, a down year. You totally overlooked his lack of offense this year until it helped you state how it would make sense to trade him.

I don't like a lot of his minors either, but he has held back recently, even if just a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Hartnell leads the league in minor penalties.

I'll allow you to take that in.

I'll be 'Charmin' soft' if it means cutting those out of the picture. Enough said.
Yeah, you'll love being "Charmin Soft" until you join in crying we're not physical enough or there's no one out there to protect player x on play x against team x.

Hartnell's got his negatives, but he does good things too...just like nearly everyone else in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post

Even the 30 goal scorer he was last year - would you really give a 30 goal scorer a NTC?
To be fair, that contract was signed at what could very easily be called a critical point in Flyers history. On top of considering his 30 goal status last year (which the organization obviously saw him doing) and accounting for everyone else he brings when he's on, yes, I could see him getting a NTC elsewhere.

If you want to shame the NTCs/NMCs being given out by Holmgren as though they were free condoms at college, that's an entirely different issue. And if you think Hartnell having one is bad consider that Ales Kotalik has one.

Terence Peterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 05:44 PM
  #43
flyerfan1248
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 60
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Probably true, but I can dream .

I wonder if he would have negative trade value at this point, seeing how he pretty clearly is never going to completely recover from his injuries.

God I hope I'm wrong.
Maybe he realizes he doesn't deserve a 5.25 mill contract, but if he wants to stay in Philly, then I seriously think he would offer to take a contract at a cheaper price... say 3 mill a year, I would do that.

flyerfan1248 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 06:35 PM
  #44
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
people really believe Hartnell is a power forward? wow. He doesnt exemplify a power forward in hardly any facet. What would they really lose by trading him?

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 07:48 PM
  #45
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
people really believe Hartnell is a power forward? wow. He doesnt exemplify a power forward in hardly any facet. What would they really lose by trading him?
I think people on these boards use the term power forward without knowing what a power forward is. Some think if you jam the crease and play physical, that makes a player a power forward. Some think that if you fight and score, that makes a player a power forward. Fact is, when I think of power forward, the last true power forwards I can think of are Rick Tocchet and Cam Neely. They had more than just physical, scoring and fighting skills they could beat you with. They also brought an intimidation factor that not even a guy like Boogaard could match. They were something special.

Now a days, anyone who is over 6 feet tall and plays a physical game is called a power forward and it's a complete disgrace to guys like Tocchet and Neely, who really defined the term power forward. The other thing that I should mention about those two was how coachable they were. Scotty Bowman at one time said that the most coachable player he ever worked with was Rick Tocchet and that if you had a team full of Tocchets, you'd be next to unbeatable. The other thing about Tocchet and Neely was that while they tough, physical and intimidating, they were also extremely smart in terms of their play on the ice. They didn't take lazy penalties or anything like that.

The unfortunate thing is, we might never see another forward like Neely or Tocchet again. The closest thing is Lucic, although I do have high hopes for Zack Kassian.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 08:39 PM
  #46
Champ Anderson*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 30
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I think people on these boards use the term power forward without knowing what a power forward is. Some think if you jam the crease and play physical, that makes a player a power forward. Some think that if you fight and score, that makes a player a power forward. Fact is, when I think of power forward, the last true power forwards I can think of are Rick Tocchet and Cam Neely. They had more than just physical, scoring and fighting skills they could beat you with. They also brought an intimidation factor that not even a guy like Boogaard could match. They were something special.

Now a days, anyone who is over 6 feet tall and plays a physical game is called a power forward and it's a complete disgrace to guys like Tocchet and Neely, who really defined the term power forward. The other thing that I should mention about those two was how coachable they were. Scotty Bowman at one time said that the most coachable player he ever worked with was Rick Tocchet and that if you had a team full of Tocchets, you'd be next to unbeatable. The other thing about Tocchet and Neely was that while they tough, physical and intimidating, they were also extremely smart in terms of their play on the ice. They didn't take lazy penalties or anything like that.

The unfortunate thing is, we might never see another forward like Neely or Tocchet again. The closest thing is Lucic, although I do have high hopes for Zack Kassian.
when I think power fwd, I think a guy like franzen fits the bill. guys who use a combonation of size and speed to score. hartnell is no power fwd. he is a grinder who has a nose for the net and gets a lot of garbage goals.

Champ Anderson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 10:02 PM
  #47
DrHamburg
Registered User
 
DrHamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,170
vCash: 500
I am a huge hartnell fan. with that being said. i would trade him for an expiring contract, a 1st round pick or prospect. or a dominate 3rd liner. I would take coburn and hartnell for halak too.

DrHamburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2010, 11:23 PM
  #48
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,678
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Hartnell has 12 goals and 17 assists for 29 points in 53 games. It's upsetting to see him fall this far, considering that no one of the calibre that his statistics indicate should have been given a NTC.

Even the 30 goal scorer he was last year - would you really give a 30 goal scorer a NTC?

Better idea: Package what is now left of Simon Gagne (sad) with Hartnell to L.A. for that pick and maybe a guy like Frolov. Still think he's an upgrade over Hartnell and Gagne. Then talk Kovy, if you still think we can fit him under the cap.
I hate Frolov. That guy just oozes talent and hes soft and lazy. Hes already been scratched several times this year. I hope he gets overpaid by some KHL and leaves.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 03:15 AM
  #49
dookie88
Registered User
 
dookie88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Even the 30 goal scorer he was last year - would you really give a 30 goal scorer a NTC?
Yes I would, if the guy brings those other qualities that Hartnell brings.
Look around the league and find me another guy that plays as hard as Hartnell, gets under the skin of opposing players as Hartnell, is as good of a locker-room guy as Hartnell at age 27 and can hold up to Carter in gameplay.

I'm not holding my breath.

dookie88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 09:12 AM
  #50
FlyersRKings
Registered User
 
FlyersRKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Philly suburbs
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Yes I would, if the guy brings those other qualities that Hartnell brings.
Look around the league and find me another guy that plays as hard as Hartnell, gets under the skin of opposing players as Hartnell, is as good of a locker-room guy as Hartnell at age 27 and can hold up to Carter in gameplay.

I'm not holding my breath.
This is a joke, right? Dan Carcillo brings more tenaciousness to the game these days than Scott Hartnell, and he's cut some of the stupid penalties down as well.

'Find me another guy who plays as hard as Hartnell'? 'Hold up to Carter in gameplay'? You might want to look at his stats this year and compare them to Carter's. Are you seriously saying that you would rather have another Scott Hartnell than a Jeff Carter?

HE LEADS THE LEAGUE IN MINORS.

I also would like to see how many goals he's scored this year compared to how many have been scored on the Flyers when he's the offender in the box. Might be interesting to see the comparison.

FlyersRKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.