HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Who do you think (if anyone) should have their jersey retired for the Flyers?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-03-2010, 10:49 AM
  #76
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I agree with you completely. Hextall definitely did not have the numbers to be in HOF but definitely had the legendary Flyers status to be hanging from the rafters. If the Flyers are reserving the rafters for Cup winners that is fine with me, but I'd still like to see Hextall (and maybe LeClair) memorialized.
Well, they just put Hextall in the Flyers HoF last year. LeClair will likely be put up in the not too distant future as well, I'd imagine.

The interesting one will be when it comes time for Lindros...who I think has a strong case for the HHOF, and absolutely should be in the Flyers HOF (which will be a potential circus).

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 11:25 AM
  #77
brian822
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Howe is the only one that should be considered

brian822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 11:56 AM
  #78
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,868
vCash: 500
The only guys not retired who left indelible marks on the team are Dave Schultz and Ron Hextall.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 11:59 AM
  #79
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 13,272
vCash: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
The only guys not retired who left indelible marks on the team are Dave Schultz and Ron Hextall.
Using that definition, Lindros is a shoo-in.

CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 12:04 PM
  #80
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Using that definition, Lindros is a shoo-in.


I remember celebrating that trade with high times!!!

Sad how it turned out.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 01:36 PM
  #81
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,722
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
The only guys not retired who left indelible marks on the team are Dave Schultz and Ron Hextall.
Oh man. Schultz. He kind of gets swept under the rug in this whole discussion. Those guys definitely left their mark on Philly and that's the type of player who deserves the honor of their number being retired.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 02:33 PM
  #82
brian822
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Mark Howe is one of the most under rated players in the history of the NHL. He gets over shadowed because he played in the same era as Coffey and Bourque.

brian822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 02:33 PM
  #83
brian822
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Oh man. Schultz. He kind of gets swept under the rug in this whole discussion. Those guys definitely left their mark on Philly and that's the type of player who deserves the honor of their number being retired.

brian822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 03:03 PM
  #84
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,722
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
Come on. How can you say they didn't leave their marks on Flyers history. And by marks I mean marks that 50 years from now people will remember exactly who Hextall and Schultz are. 50 years from people may not remember Jeff Carter or Eric Desjardins, etc. No one will forget Hextall for his Cup run(s), his goals, his on ice attitude, the fact that he is (currently) the wins leader for the team, etc. No one will forget Schultz for mayhem he created on the ice and his embodiment of Flyers hockey. That is the type of player that shoudl have his number retired.

side note- I know have been all over the map during this thread, but after reading other people thoughts I can say Schultz and Hextall need to be up there. Maybe Howe. But a guy like Howe, no matter what his stats say, didn't make the same impact on the Flyers as Hextall or Schultz (or the ones already up in the rafters). Hextall and Schultz really made an impact similar to those already retired.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 03:06 PM
  #85
Murphy7
Drop the puck
 
Murphy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country:
Posts: 1,635
vCash: 500
I like that the Flyers limit the retired numbers. Loved Hexy, Desjardins, LeClair, etc., but they can get into the Flyers HOF.
The closest to number retirement should be Mark Howe, as he is the closest thing the team has to a future HHOFer. He should already be in. Great numbers and exceptional defensive play. During his era, Coffey (extreme offense) and Langway (extreme defense) were considered the best by most, but I'd take his (or Bourque's) perfect blend of offense and defense any day over Coffey or Langway.
BUT ... saying that, the next banner the Flyers will hang in retirement is the PA microphone for Lou Nolan, especially as he approaches 40 years of working games.

Murphy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 03:24 PM
  #86
brian822
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Come on. How can you say they didn't leave their marks on Flyers history. And by marks I mean marks that 50 years from now people will remember exactly who Hextall and Schultz are. 50 years from people may not remember Jeff Carter or Eric Desjardins, etc. No one will forget Hextall for his Cup run(s), his goals, his on ice attitude, the fact that he is (currently) the wins leader for the team, etc. No one will forget Schultz for mayhem he created on the ice and his embodiment of Flyers hockey. That is the type of player that shoudl have his number retired.

side note- I know have been all over the map during this thread, but after reading other people thoughts I can say Schultz and Hextall need to be up there. Maybe Howe. But a guy like Howe, no matter what his stats say, didn't make the same impact on the Flyers as Hextall or Schultz (or the ones already up in the rafters). Hextall and Schultz really made an impact similar to those already retired.
Oh, there is no doubt that Schultz and Hextall left a mark on the team. I'm not going to retire someone's jersey cause they could beat the **** out of the other team. I love Schultz don't get me wrong but in no way should he have his jersey retired. You take Schultz off the Flyers and they probably still win those 2 cups. Flyers HOF is good enough for Schultz. You can make an arguement for Hextall. Probably my all-time favorite Flyer but i wouldnt retire his number.


Last edited by brian822: 02-03-2010 at 08:25 PM.
brian822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 04:16 PM
  #87
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Come on. How can you say they didn't leave their marks on Flyers history. And by marks I mean marks that 50 years from now people will remember exactly who Hextall and Schultz are. 50 years from people may not remember Jeff Carter or Eric Desjardins, etc. No one will forget Hextall for his Cup run(s), his goals, his on ice attitude, the fact that he is (currently) the wins leader for the team, etc. No one will forget Schultz for mayhem he created on the ice and his embodiment of Flyers hockey. That is the type of player that shoudl have his number retired.

side note- I know have been all over the map during this thread, but after reading other people thoughts I can say Schultz and Hextall need to be up there. Maybe Howe. But a guy like Howe, no matter what his stats say, didn't make the same impact on the Flyers as Hextall or Schultz (or the ones already up in the rafters). Hextall and Schultz really made an impact similar to those already retired.
Sorry, but you are simply displaying a total ignorance of the history of the Flyers, which is what you think you're talking about.

Without Mark Howe there is no way Hexy makes a run to the finals in his rookie year.

Schultz made an impact, through reputation and good play, but his impact on the team was a pittance in comparison to the contributions Leach, MacLeish and several others made to the Cup wins.

Clarke, Parent, Barber, Howe, Lindros. That's pretty well a consensus list of the five best players in team history, in order. And they all belong in the HHOF too.

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 04:32 PM
  #88
Bill_Meltzer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I dont get it. For what reason? Howe was never even the best player on his own team let alone the league.

I would retire Propp's number far before Howe.

Howe was EASILY the best player on the Flyers several seasons in his career-- hence, a Bobby Clarke Trophy and three Norris first runner-up finishes, of which he deserved to win twice.

With Howe in his prime, the Flyers were a team that could push Edmonton to the limit. Without him, they were a good, hard-working team but not an elite squad. Yes, he meant THAT much... he played 30 minutes a game every night and often 35+.

As for his HHOF credentials:

* A star at both LW (up through 1979) and D (thereafter)
* 405 career goals and 1,246 career points between NHL and WHA
* All-time leading WHA playoff scorer
* Made the US Olympic team at age 16
* Three-time Norris Trophy finalist

Bill_Meltzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 04:36 PM
  #89
FlyerX
Registered User
 
FlyerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
Mark Howe #2

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Plus/Minus

Rank Player +/-
1. Larry Robinson* 730
2. Bobby Orr* 597
3. Raymond Bourque* 528
4. Wayne Gretzky* 518
5. Bobby Clarke* 506
6. Denis Potvin* 460
Serge Savard* 460
8. Guy Lafleur* 453
9. Bryan Trottier* 452
10. Brad McCrimmon 444
11. Nicklas Lidstrom 428
12. Mark Howe 400

http://www.hockey-reference.com/lead...us_career.html

Lindros' 88 is de facto retired.

FlyerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 05:31 PM
  #90
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,722
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Sorry, but you are simply displaying a total ignorance of the history of the Flyers, which is what you think you're talking about.

Without Mark Howe there is no way Hexy makes a run to the finals in his rookie year.

Schultz made an impact, through reputation and good play, but his impact on the team was a pittance in comparison to the contributions Leach, MacLeish and several others made to the Cup wins.

Clarke, Parent, Barber, Howe, Lindros. That's pretty well a consensus list of the five best players in team history, in order. And they all belong in the HHOF too.
I'm not saying that Howe didn't contribute as much or have a great career. I'm simply saying that he didn't have the same impact. I'm not saying that without him the Flyers would have been the same or anything like that. I'm simply saying that Schultz and Hextall had a bigger impact on the city and the team. And that is undeniable. Howe was a great player and led the team for several years. But ask anyone who the best players in history are and very few will say Howe. That doesn't mean they are right, but you retire the numbers of players who are legends and have done something that you don't want another player to overshadow by wearing that number. Hextall did that. Schultz did that. Howe, arguably, did that as well. Again,I I'm not saying that if they retired Howe's number I'd protest and say he doesn't deserve it, I'm just saying that Hextall and Schultz do more. Hextall and Schultz WERE/ARE Flyers hockey. Stats aren't everything when it comes to retiring a number (See: Ken Danyeko). I know Howe was a great player and help lead the team to the Finals along with Hextall and others. But overall, and I know I will be slaughtered for saying this, Howe was a forgettable player. That is evidenced in this thread. The bottom line is a case could be made for a lot of players, but IMO Hextall and Schultz are the most deserving.

ALSO: I wrote a better reply to this a minute ago but my computer crashed. Same general point, but the first one was better written and had better arguments.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 08:14 PM
  #91
brian822
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm not saying that Howe didn't contribute as much or have a great career. I'm simply saying that he didn't have the same impact. I'm not saying that without him the Flyers would have been the same or anything like that. I'm simply saying that Schultz and Hextall had a bigger impact on the city and the team. And that is undeniable. Howe was a great player and led the team for several years. But ask anyone who the best players in history are and very few will say Howe. That doesn't mean they are right, but you retire the numbers of players who are legends and have done something that you don't want another player to overshadow by wearing that number. Hextall did that. Schultz did that. Howe, arguably, did that as well. Again,I I'm not saying that if they retired Howe's number I'd protest and say he doesn't deserve it, I'm just saying that Hextall and Schultz do more. Hextall and Schultz WERE/ARE Flyers hockey. Stats aren't everything when it comes to retiring a number (See: Ken Danyeko). I know Howe was a great player and help lead the team to the Finals along with Hextall and others. But overall, and I know I will be slaughtered for saying this, Howe was a forgettable player. That is evidenced in this thread. The bottom line is a case could be made for a lot of players, but IMO Hextall and Schultz are the most deserving.

ALSO: I wrote a better reply to this a minute ago but my computer crashed. Same general point, but the first one was better written and had better arguments.
I wasn't even going to respond and then I saw the Howe is forgettable part. Howe didn't have the attention that Hextall and Schultz had . Half the people in this thread probably never saw Howe played. Read Bill Meltzer's response. He nails it right on the head. If anyone doesn't mention Howe as one the best players in Flyers history is a complete fool and knows **** about the Flyers. He is, by a large maragin, the best d-man in Flyers history.

brian822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 08:22 PM
  #92
brian822
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I dont get it. For what reason? Howe was never even the best player on his own team let alone the league.

I would retire Propp's number far before Howe.
holy **** are you serious? Did you even watch the Flyers back in the 80's?

brian822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 10:23 PM
  #93
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
ALSO: I wrote a better reply to this a minute ago but my computer crashed. Same general point, but the first one was better written and had better arguments.
I highly doubt it. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2010, 10:26 PM
  #94
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,722
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
I wasn't even going to respond and then I saw the Howe is forgettable part. Howe didn't have the attention that Hextall and Schultz had . Half the people in this thread probably never saw Howe played. Read Bill Meltzer's response. He nails it right on the head. If anyone doesn't mention Howe as one the best players in Flyers history is a complete fool and knows **** about the Flyers. He is, by a large maragin, the best d-man in Flyers history.
I'm not saying he isn't the best defenseman in Flyers history. I know he is. I know he was a great player, but, as you pointed out about half people in this thread not mentioning him, that is what I mean by forgettable. Not that he sucked or anything like that. It's like you said, he didn't have the attention that Hextall and Schultz had and therefore is not remembered the way that Hextall and Schultz are. Hextall and Schultz are remembered as Flyers legends. Howe isn't. And it isn't for because he wasn't good. His stats clearly show otherwise. But one of, if not the main reason to retire number is because of their legendary status. Not because of their stats. Obviously stats play a role, but a guy like Hextall (who arguably has the stats) or Schultz was more than just stats. Again, I'm not saying that he isn't a Flyers great or anything like that, and I said in my earlier post I wouldn't be in opposition of retiring his number, I'm just saying that I'd rather see Hextall and/or Schultz up there before Howe.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2010, 10:58 AM
  #95
brian822
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm not saying he isn't the best defenseman in Flyers history. I know he is. I know he was a great player, but, as you pointed out about half people in this thread not mentioning him, that is what I mean by forgettable. Not that he sucked or anything like that. It's like you said, he didn't have the attention that Hextall and Schultz had and therefore is not remembered the way that Hextall and Schultz are. Hextall and Schultz are remembered as Flyers legends. Howe isn't. And it isn't for because he wasn't good. His stats clearly show otherwise. But one of, if not the main reason to retire number is because of their legendary status. Not because of their stats. Obviously stats play a role, but a guy like Hextall (who arguably has the stats) or Schultz was more than just stats. Again, I'm not saying that he isn't a Flyers great or anything like that, and I said in my earlier post I wouldn't be in opposition of retiring his number, I'm just saying that I'd rather see Hextall and/or Schultz up there before Howe.
It's ignorant to say Mark Howe isn't a Flyers legend. If you ask anyone that watched the Flyers back then they will tell Howe is a legend. Did you ever see Howe play in the mid 80's?

brian822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2010, 11:41 AM
  #96
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,722
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
It's ignorant to say Mark Howe isn't a Flyers legend. If you ask anyone that watched the Flyers back then they will tell Howe is a legend. Did you ever see Howe play in the mid 80's?
That's what I'm talking about. If you ask anyone WHO SAW HIM PLAY he is a legend. If you ask someone who didn't, he is forgettable. If you ask anyone if Hextall or Schultz is a legend, regardless of whether they saw him play, they will say he is. I didn't see him play in the 80s, and that is why I don't think he is a legend. I didn't see Schultz or Hextall (or Parent, Clarke, etc) play either, but I know they are legends. I know who Howe was and I know he was a great player and had a great career. I have even met him before (he has a house on LBI and was in the same softball league I was in). But again, like I said a million times, it is not just about stats. It is about the mark they left on the city/team. Clearly if people don't really remember him or consider him a legend outside of the people who saw him play, he wasn't that much a legendary player. If he was, everyone would know who he was and that he was so legendary. Again, I AM NOT SAYING HE WASN'T A GREAT PLAYER.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2010, 12:34 PM
  #97
brian822
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That's what I'm talking about. If you ask anyone WHO SAW HIM PLAY he is a legend. If you ask someone who didn't, he is forgettable. If you ask anyone if Hextall or Schultz is a legend, regardless of whether they saw him play, they will say he is. I didn't see him play in the 80s, and that is why I don't think he is a legend. I didn't see Schultz or Hextall (or Parent, Clarke, etc) play either, but I know they are legends. I know who Howe was and I know he was a great player and had a great career. I have even met him before (he has a house on LBI and was in the same softball league I was in). But again, like I said a million times, it is not just about stats. It is about the mark they left on the city/team. Clearly if people don't really remember him or consider him a legend outside of the people who saw him play, he wasn't that much a legendary player. If he was, everyone would know who he was and that he was so legendary. Again, I AM NOT SAYING HE WASN'T A GREAT PLAYER.
Ok Im trying to understand your reasoning here. I agree with you that Schultz is a Flyers legend but what else does he bring to the table for him to have his jersey retired? You never saw Hextall play? Christ how old are you?

brian822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2010, 12:49 PM
  #98
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 11,722
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian822 View Post
Ok Im trying to understand your reasoning here. I agree with you that Schultz is a Flyers legend but what else does he bring to the table for him to have his jersey retired? You never saw Hextall play? Christ how old are you?
I saw Hextall play but not in the 80s. I saw him during his second stint (I'm 23 years old). Schultz is a guy who epitomized Flyers hockey. He didn't have impressive numbers really outside of the PIMs, but he was a legend because of the way he played the game. Schultz is debatable just like any of these players are. And like I said about Howe, I wouldn't be opposed to them retiring his number, it's just that if I were running the show I'd retire Hextall and Schultz. Reasonable minds can differ on pretty much any of the players being talked about here.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2010, 04:09 PM
  #99
Tommy D
Registered User
 
Tommy D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Country: United States
Posts: 751
vCash: 500
Good old #8

Tell you what.... <if you could> you ask the competition of the day who they would rather play against 8 or 88.

Players were scared ****less to come to Philli. With good reason as well.

IMO some teams found the best way to deal with 88 was to do nothing. By that I recall the Red Wings basically not even checking him and Eric the great just faded away.

Yet you piss the kid off <88> and boy could he light you up. Shultz never gave you that option, he way down your throat from the get go.

I would put 8's number in the rafters way before 88. That's just me, and like all the other members of this site out opinions mean ****

Tommy D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2010, 04:31 PM
  #100
i am dave
Registered User
 
i am dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Corner of 1st & 1st
Country: United States
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Hextall definitely does not deserve HHOF, but I wouldn't be against the concept of retiring his jersey just because of how much of a "true" Flyer he was.

That being said...at this point it's pretty clear that the organization is not going to retire anyone's number that doesn't win a Cup, and I kind of like that. The Flyers HoF is a nice way to recognize important players in the history of the franchise that don't achieve that standard.
I'm not saying that's wrong, but I could have sworn the team's position on retiring numbers was that they had to be in the HHOF... or am I confusing them with the Phillies? Could've sworn it was the Flyers...

In any case, I watched Mark Howe play as I was growing up. He absolutely - absolutely - should be in the HHOF (in my expert opinion).

i am dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.