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Lolwut? Habs beat canucks 3-2

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02-03-2010, 10:46 AM
  #301
Nedved
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I think you need to watch the game again... Henrik Sedin had 4 point blank chances right in front of Halak on 2 separate occassions, where he had a high quality first chance, then a high quality rebound chance.

Daniel had a couple of great chances as well... and there were at least 2 or 3 chances that Burrows had with rebounds right in front of him which he couldn't put away.

I've watched every game this team has played all year, and IMO the number of quality chances they had were on par with what they've had in most games this year... they just couldn't finish, thanks to Halak.

From all the games I've seen this season, the team that did the best job in shutting down the Sedins - controlling the quality of their chances this season - was the Blues, who had a 5-man unit out against the twins every shift, and the defensive duo of Jackman-Polak have easily - by a wide margin IMO - been the most effective at shutting down the twins and limiting their overall chances.

The Habs last night were basically what we've seen from most other teams... high end quality chances on pretty much every shift they were on the ice, while the defense turned over the puck in their own zone at times, by forced turnovers caused by the top line.

its nice having other teams we just played against come in and shut these guys up.

thanks.

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02-03-2010, 10:46 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
This is stuff you hear often but imo is completely unfounded. There is this myth that for some reason you can't have two goalies fighting for a position.

By that logic you should name your team and stick with it regardless of individual performance. You'd never have a young defenseman or center pushing for a vet's position, you'd never have happy surprises with young players etc.
forwards and defenders are not comparable... there are 12 forward spots on a team... 6 defense spots. There is only one starting goalie.

If this was such a myth, then why does every team always trade one of their goalies whenever such a situation arises? Not only the Huet situation, where Gainey specifically said that he needed to move Huet out to give Price the ball to run with, but many other examples throughout the league both past and present.

You had Potvin who needed to be dealt once the Leafs acquired Joseph... then had Joseph who needed to be dealt when they acquired Belfour, and then again in Detroit when they acquired Hasek.

You had Mike Smith in TBay... Kiprusoff and Vokoun in San Jose... Brzgalov and recently Gigeure in Anaheim... the list goes on.

When a team has 2 quality goalies, they always end up dealing one of them. When was the last time that a team actually carried two quality starters and didn't look to deal one?

And this problem becomes bigger under a salary cap. Price nor Halak are going to be happy having to take on a lower salary because the team wants to carry both guys... and tying up too much money on a goaltending tandem doesn't make much sense either - especially for a team like the Habs, who won't have a lot of cap flexibility to begin with.

Basically, if all this was just a myth, we wouldn't have so many examples of all these teams that become examples of that myth.

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02-03-2010, 10:47 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by habsfanwuc View Post
its nice having other teams we just played against come in and shut these guys up.

thanks.
not here to "shut guys up" I understand the moment I post in another team's thread, I am seen as being the hostile outsider for no other reason than not being a Habs fan... just trying to provide my comments from what I've seen, which I'd hope that hockey fans regardless of what team you're a fan of, would appreciate.

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02-03-2010, 10:48 AM
  #304
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I don't think the shot total indicated the story of the game, as the Habs went through periods throughout the game where they played as good if not better than the Canucks.... That being said...the Canucks have one fine hockey team, from top to bottom.

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02-03-2010, 10:51 AM
  #305
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The 'Nucks are a solid team but I just can't see myself cheering for them if they make a run.

Too many divers and whiners and Kesslers.

That Mason Raymond is a good young player though, wouldn't mind him on the Habs.

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02-03-2010, 10:51 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I don't think the shot total indicated the story of the game, as the Habs went through periods where they looked much better thant he Canucks. That being said...the Canucks have one fine hockey team, from top to bottom.
as a diehard Canuck fan, I have to disagree with that.

we have a fine club from top to ... well top

the bottom depth of this team is a huge weakness... and unless that's addressed I can't see them going far in the playoffs. You need your foot-soldiers to step up and provide those intangibles (toughness, grit, checking match-ups, PK help, etc)... our bottom-6 has to be among the worst in the league IMO.

This is what separates the Canucks currently from the elite teams in the league... the top end talent is there, the depth you need for those 7-game series and hard-fought playoff wars is not, IMO.

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02-03-2010, 10:57 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
as a diehard Canuck fan, I have to disagree with that.

we have a fine club from top to ... well top

the bottom depth of this team is a huge weakness... and unless that's addressed I can't see them going far in the playoffs. You need your foot-soldiers to step up and provide those intangibles (toughness, grit, checking match-ups, PK help, etc)... our bottom-6 has to be among the worst in the league IMO.

This is what separates the Canucks currently from the elite teams in the league... the top end talent is there, the depth you need for those 7-game series and hard-fought playoff wars is not, IMO.
Maybe...you watch them more than I do.

All i know is everytime I watch the Nucks'...guys like Hordichuk, Johnson & Rypien do a good job of playing tough and providing grit while not hurting their team with unecessary penalties.

I dont know if I see a Cup winning team in Vancouver, but I think they're a very good team

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02-03-2010, 10:59 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
forwards and defenders are not comparable... there are 12 forward spots on a team... 6 defense spots. There is only one starting goalie.

If this was such a myth, then why does every team always trade one of their goalies whenever such a situation arises? Not only the Huet situation, where Gainey specifically said that he needed to move Huet out to give Price the ball to run with, but many other examples throughout the league both past and present.

You had Potvin who needed to be dealt once the Leafs acquired Joseph... then had Joseph who needed to be dealt when they acquired Belfour, and then again in Detroit when they acquired Hasek.

You had Mike Smith in TBay... Kiprusoff and Vokoun in San Jose... Brzgalov and recently Gigeure in Anaheim... the list goes on.

When a team has 2 quality goalies, they always end up dealing one of them. When was the last time that a team actually carried two quality starters and didn't look to deal one?

And this problem becomes bigger under a salary cap. Price nor Halak are going to be happy having to take on a lower salary because the team wants to carry both guys... and tying up too much money on a goaltending tandem doesn't make much sense either - especially for a team like the Habs, who won't have a lot of cap flexibility to begin with.

Basically, if all this was just a myth, we wouldn't have so many examples of all these teams that become examples of that myth.
I agree with all of this I guess I meant more why now? What is the urgency? In the cases you mention you often have a large age gap between the two guys and the situation is a lot more clear-cut than this one. Right now with Price being 22 years old and obviously not quite ready yet I don't understand what else the Habs are supposed to do other than keep both. Which is exactly what I suspect they will do.

I also wouldn't be entirely shocked to see Halak extended a few years while Price develops. I know that's not a very common opinion but like I said I wouldn't be entirely suprised to see that happen.

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02-03-2010, 11:11 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I agree with all of this I guess I meant more why now? What is the urgency? In the cases you mention you often have a large age gap between the two guys and the situation is a lot more clear-cut than this one. Right now with Price being 22 years old and obviously not quite ready yet I don't understand what else the Habs are supposed to do other than keep both. Which is exactly what I suspect they will do.

I also wouldn't be entirely shocked to see Halak extended a few years while Price develops. I know that's not a very common opinion but like I said I wouldn't be entirely suprised to see that happen.
the problem is the salary cap and the new CBA... and the urgency, and why it needs to be now (well by this offseason) is that each goalie has RFA status at the end of this season.

Young players are no longer paid for their current contributions, but their upside and potential. And every agent knows this.

Why would Halak and Price be fine with taking on a lower salary to fit the cap structure of a team wanting to carry a tandem in goal, when they have the leverage of RFA examples around them?

I would think that any agent worth his salt would want to get his client out of such a situation, and the easiest thing to do is to look for an offer-sheet to make that happen. Once the offer-sheets come out, you're looking at overpayment for current performance (as is always the case), making it that much harder to retain both guys.

And even best case scenario to limit these options - take them both to arbitration (though IIRC Price is not arbitration eligible yet), can really hurt the Habs as well - you risk getting a very high payout for Halak (who's supporting the 3rd best save% in the NHL), while again risking having an unhappy goaltending situation where a guy like Price may not be too happy getting a low arbitration award while seeing backup duty as well.

Given the salary cap situation now, I think it's inevitable that one of these guys are gone as early as next year. I just don't see the Habs having the overall cap flexibility to retain both guys and keep them happy in Montreal.

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02-03-2010, 11:22 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Overall good game... always going to be disappointed after a loss, but good to see that the Canucks still had 47 shots on goal and basically controlled the play for the majority of the game.
I disagree. While there were parts of the game where the Canucks dominated, the same can be said for the Canadiens. Also, the shots on goal really aren't an indicator of dominance. That's just how the Habs play. Collapse and wait wait wait until they get a chance from a turnover (Like the Sergei Kostitsyn goal). Teams come out of Montreal thinking "well we lost but look at our shots" or "look at the puck possession time" but that's the Habs' system. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

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02-03-2010, 11:25 AM
  #311
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1rst time halak plays after a loss ... oh well he did break one of JM's ******** policies ... I hope martin took note of his performance and the end result. If they trade halak, its over.

Carey's play tonight was great, he did not gave up any weak goals and he was able to joke around all he wanted, he really looked good out there on the bench.

until the end of the season, we will need both goalies ... to stay where they belong.

if he trades halak, he loses the entire room. (e8)

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02-03-2010, 11:30 AM
  #312
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Doesn't Price have both of the Habs wins against the Bruins this season?
Yes he does. But the fact that this team usually has off nights when Price is in nets and the fact that Halak has been playing great, really leads me to believe that playing Price against the Bruins is just a recipe for disaster; nothing to do with skill, just the way things usually work out when Price is put in a tough situation.

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02-03-2010, 11:52 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
not here to "shut guys up" I understand the moment I post in another team's thread, I am seen as being the hostile outsider for no other reason than not being a Habs fan... just trying to provide my comments from what I've seen, which I'd hope that hockey fans regardless of what team you're a fan of, would appreciate.
Some of us do. Unfortunately, you've already met the rest...

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02-03-2010, 02:02 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I don't think the shot total indicated the story of the game, as the Habs went through periods throughout the game where they played as good if not better than the Canucks.... That being said...the Canucks have one fine hockey team, from top to bottom.
That was a pretty good performance by the Habs. Sure we could have been burned but Halak was sharp and outplayed Luongo.

Id love to see a guy like Pyatt or White back with the team tho, to help the forecheck.

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02-03-2010, 02:35 PM
  #315
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Yes he does. But the fact that this team usually has off nights when Price is in nets and the fact that Halak has been playing great, really leads me to believe that playing Price against the Bruins is just a recipe for disaster; nothing to do with skill, just the way things usually work out when Price is put in a tough situation.
the fact is that carey's save % in the 1rst period is around .850 and halak's is .950 , go ahead and call me liar, hater ect... but im just stating a fact, and we all know the impact of scoring 1rst in a game...

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02-03-2010, 02:53 PM
  #316
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the fact is that carey's save % in the 1rst period is around .850 and halak's is .950 , go ahead and call me liar, hater ect... but im just stating a fact, and we all know the impact of scoring 1rst in a game...
I don't get how that has anything to do with my point whatsoever.
I don't even get the point your trying to make quite frankly. I mean, the team does play worse when Price is in nets, and thats a proven fact. I don't want him to start on thursday because if he loses, fans like you will bring up irrelevant stats that have been taken out of context. For example, Price gave up that first goal in Nashville, later making 53 saves, he is surely to be blamed. Price let in that first goal against Detroit, during a 5 on 3, he is surelyto blame. Price let in that first goal against St.Louis, he is surely to blame since you have to stop a player on a 2 on 1....and I can go on forever. So, your stat has nothing to do with Price starting or not, because that stat has been taken out of context, and interpreted in your favour. Call me a liar, hater ect...but im just stating a fact.

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02-03-2010, 02:57 PM
  #317
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the fact is that carey's save % in the 1rst period is around .850 and halak's is .950 , go ahead and call me liar, hater ect... but im just stating a fact, and we all know the impact of scoring 1rst in a game...
Price's fault the team doesn't show up

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02-03-2010, 03:06 PM
  #318
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Maybe it says something that the team doesn't show up for Price? Food for thought.

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02-03-2010, 03:08 PM
  #319
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Maybe it says something that the team doesn't show up for Price? Food for thought.
The way it's done is freaky, though. The stat that I can't get over is how the Habs PP was 45% in December with Halak and 5% with Price. The power play! What does it matter which goalie is in net for the power play?

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02-03-2010, 03:08 PM
  #320
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It says that they know price can keep them in a game if they slack off where as with Halak they need to try because he can't

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02-03-2010, 03:08 PM
  #321
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Maybe it says something that the team doesn't show up for Price? Food for thought.
Why would it? Does anyone really believe that the team rebels against Price by playing like crap when he's in nets? That's just silly.

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02-03-2010, 03:11 PM
  #322
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as a diehard Canuck fan, I have to disagree with that.

we have a fine club from top to ... well top

the bottom depth of this team is a huge weakness... and unless that's addressed I can't see them going far in the playoffs. You need your foot-soldiers to step up and provide those intangibles (toughness, grit, checking match-ups, PK help, etc)... our bottom-6 has to be among the worst in the league IMO.

This is what separates the Canucks currently from the elite teams in the league... the top end talent is there, the depth you need for those 7-game series and hard-fought playoff wars is not, IMO.
I think that's where Chicago dominated last year, they are a very deep team.

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02-03-2010, 03:18 PM
  #323
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It says that they know price can keep them in a game if they slack off where as with Halak they need to try because he can't
lol wut? Woodballs, you must try our delicious crow desert before you leave. It's simply deeee-lightful.

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02-03-2010, 03:20 PM
  #324
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Why would it? Does anyone really believe that the team rebels against Price by playing like crap when he's in nets? That's just silly.
Absolutely not. For the longest time, I thought it was purely coincidental, but that save percentage in the first period stat (which I've never seen) does provide a potential explanation for why the team might perform better with one or the other goalie in net. Momentum can make or break a team like the Habs.

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02-03-2010, 03:22 PM
  #325
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lol wut? Woodballs, you must try our delicious crow desert before you leave. It's simply deeee-lightful.
I think he meant what Josh Gorges said when journalists asked about the fact that Montreal scores more with Halak in nets. Gorges answered something like ''maybe because we rely on him too much to keep us in the game instead of being more intense and agressive.''
That was no knock on Halak though. But hey in this city you can't say something nice about a goalie without trying to bring the other one down.

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