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Kovalchuk, Salmela traded to the Devils, for Oduya, Bergfors, Cormier and a first

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Old
02-04-2010, 10:00 AM
  #51
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If the Flyers traded JVR, Giroux, and every prospect draft pick for the next five years, I'd be cool with that if they won they Cup. If they didn't...

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02-04-2010, 10:07 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I'm suprised Shafer doesn't understand the cap. It is calculated daily (at 12 or 5 pm I believe) and the Flyers have big salary on LTIR. LTIR means whatever we don't spend to the cap, LTIR takes us to the limit before insurance kicks in.

Therefore, the Flyers have spent to the cap every single day of the season. Remaining salary is a worthless number for us. Total caphit is all that matters, because when we add everyones contract up and divide by the number of days in a season, we can not exceed our daily limit.

Remaining salary is only important for clubs with financial trouble who could care less about cap hit and are concerned with how much ACTUAL cash they spend on personnel.

So, think of it like this, at no point during the season, can the total sum of all our players salaries exceed $56.8 mill. Not the first day of the season, not today, not tomorrow. We can never go a single day spending over $56.8 mill unless it's in bonuses. LTIR insurance picks up everything over $56.8 mill.
I'm actually pretty weak on salary cap outside of the relative scale. I've never sat down with someone who understands the intricacies of it.

I know right now we're spending $319,502 a day on the 26 following players:

F: Briere, Richards, Gagne, Carter, Hartnell, vanRiemsdyk, Laperriere, Carcillo, Giroux, Asham, Betts, Cote, and Powe.

D: Timonen, Pronger, (Rathje), Carle, Jones, Coburn, Parent, Tollefsen, Syvret, Bartulis, and Krajicek.

G: Emery, Boucher, and Leighton.


Then there's players who are no longer on the active roster who amount to $25,485 which I assume doesn't count:

Pyorala, Nodl, Kalinski, Laliberte, Backlund, Ross, and Bourdon.


Based on the daily salary cap of the NHL which is $56.8 / the 193 days in a season, which equals $294,300, we're over the cap at $319,502.

Then you take away Rathje at $18,135 putting us at $301,367. Then I assume Parent and Syvret are both on LTIR at the moment as well putting us at $293,958.

That puts us literally at $324 under the daily salary cap currently.

That's as far as I understand. Now is where it gets iffy for me.

I understand to the extent where Cullen's salary cap hit based on how much money we actually have to spend on his contract.

But what I assume is we would have to make room for him on our roster by sending players down to the tune of his $14,896 a day.

So yeah, we don't even make the cap with Parent and Syvret both on the roster. We have to come up with nearly $15,000 a day to carry Cullen.

Is my understanding correct?

I had to kind of self-teach myself everything about the cap. It's still a little difficult.

My biggest question is if Cullen is added, why do we take on his entire daily cap hit ($14,896) and not the daily cap hit of what's left on his yearly salary cap hit?

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02-04-2010, 10:18 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'm actually pretty weak on salary cap outside of the relative scale. I've never sat down with someone who understands the intricacies of it.

I know right now we're spending $319,502 a day on the 26 following players:

F: Briere, Richards, Gagne, Carter, Hartnell, vanRiemsdyk, Laperriere, Carcillo, Giroux, Asham, Betts, Cote, and Powe.

D: Timonen, Pronger, (Rathje), Carle, Jones, Coburn, Parent, Tollefsen, Syvret, Bartulis, and Krajicek.

G: Emery, Boucher, and Leighton.


Then there's players who are no longer on the active roster who amount to $25,485 which I assume doesn't count:

Pyorala, Nodl, Kalinski, Laliberte, Backlund, Ross, and Bourdon.


Based on the daily salary cap of the NHL which is $56.8 / the 193 days in a season, which equals $294,300, we're over the cap at $319,502.

Then you take away Rathje at $18,135 putting us at $301,367. Then I assume Parent and Syvret are both on LTIR at the moment as well putting us at $293,958.

That puts us literally at $324 under the daily salary cap currently.

That's as far as I understand. Now is where it gets iffy for me.

I understand to the extent where Cullen's salary cap hit based on how much money we actually have to spend on his contract.

But what I assume is we would have to make room for him on our roster by sending players down to the tune of his $14,896 a day.

So yeah, we don't even make the cap with Parent and Syvret both on the roster. We have to come up with nearly $15,000 a day to carry Cullen.

Is my understanding correct?

I had to kind of self-teach myself everything about the cap. It's still a little difficult.

My biggest question is if Cullen is added, why do we take on his entire daily cap hit ($14,896) and not the daily cap hit of what's left on his yearly salary cap hit?
Simple, because his entire contract is split up into daily increments. That daily increment does NOT change. Carolina has paid him him $14,896 every day this season, and if he gets moved, his new team pays him $14,896 a day also. The financial result is if he got traded today, his new team pays him roughly 900k, since they only pay him his daily salary for a third of the year. His salary of $14,896 does not change, just the employer.

Don't think of what's left of his salary as a cap hit in any way. 900k is not cap related, it's literally the amount of money he is to be paid for playing the rest of the season in the NHL. His cap hit is $2.8 something. That is all that matters. If a team trades for him, they need to absorb his cap hit of $2.8 million, even if they only have to pay him 900k in actual cash.

Your list of players includes 27 people, haha. That might put us over the cap a bit. Rathje is LTIR, as is Parent and Syvret right now. Jones is dead money. And guys like Pyorala and Nodl have no effect on our daily cap hit as long as they are in the AHL.

I have a spreadsheet of all the salaries currently on the cap, and we have roughly $0.43 mill cap space. Enough for call-ups and send downs, but not enough to absorb salary, expecially a guy like Cullen, without moving a guy like Carle.

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02-04-2010, 11:09 AM
  #54
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This Tweet just came through a little while ago:

CSNFlyer

As strange as it may sound, Ilya to Philly could still happen. I believe JVR is the dealmaker or breaker at this point.

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02-04-2010, 11:15 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
This Tweet just came through a little while ago:

CSNFlyer

As strange as it may sound, Ilya to Philly could still happen. I believe JVR is the dealmaker or breaker at this point.
Please.God.No.

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02-04-2010, 11:17 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
This Tweet just came through a little while ago:

CSNFlyer

As strange as it may sound, Ilya to Philly could still happen. I believe JVR is the dealmaker or breaker at this point.
As much as I would like Kovy on Flyers team I would hate trading JVR...

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02-04-2010, 11:17 AM
  #57
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Please.God.No.
I can't believe Holmgren could be THAT stupid.

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02-04-2010, 11:21 AM
  #58
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Please.God.No.
Agreed, although with more expletives thrown in. That would be absolutely mind-bogglingly stupid.

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02-04-2010, 11:21 AM
  #59
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Iyla to Flyers for JVR AND WHAT?

JVR is on his ELC. We need to dump serious salary to make that happen. JVR and Carter might not be enough, and quite frankly, I'd rather keep JVR and Carter.

JVR and Carle is not enough. JVR and Gagne? I might do that. JVR and Briere would be much better IMHO.

Just wait it out and see what happens I guess.

EDIT: Having Ilya Kovalchuk, Richards, Carter and Giroux on forward and Pronger and Timonen on the bad end is insane. Ilya and Carter are 2 big scoring threats, so they need to be separated.

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02-04-2010, 11:26 AM
  #60
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I will be pretty pissed if we traded Giroux/JVR.


Like REALLY mad...

Also, if this is just for a rental (aka if we cant sign him), I'll be even more pissed.

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02-04-2010, 11:27 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Iyla to Flyers for JVR AND WHAT?

JVR is on his ELC. We need to dump serious salary to make that happen. JVR and Carter might not be enough, and quite frankly, I'd rather keep JVR and Carter.

JVR and Carle is not enough. JVR and Gagne? I might do that. JVR and Briere would be much better IMHO.

Just wait it out and see what happens I guess.

EDIT: Having Ilya Kovalchuk, Richards, Carter and Giroux on forward and Pronger and Timonen on the bad end is insane. Ilya and Carter are 2 big scoring threats, so they need to be separated.
But for a rental? No way. If we were able to sign him then I don't have a big problem with getting rid of JvR, Gagne and Briere if need be. For a rental, not a chance. If we don't make the playoffs and go really deep, it's not worth it.

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02-04-2010, 11:29 AM
  #62
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I will be pretty pissed if we traded Giroux/JVR.


Like REALLY mad...

Also, if this is just for a rental (aka if we cant sign him), I'll be even more pissed.
I could live with Briere and JVR for Kovalchuk IF he signed a longterm deal at like $7.5 or 8 mill. Dump one of Hartnell or Gagne and we would be ok for a bit. it would give us a legit Superstar and we could have Kovalchuk and Carter on separate lines. I could also live with Briere and JVR on the Flyers. Win-win really.

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02-04-2010, 11:29 AM
  #63
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But for a rental? No way. If we were able to sign him then I don't have a big problem with getting rid of JvR, Gagne and Briere if need be. For a rental, not a chance. If we don't make the playoffs and go really deep, it's not worth it.
Agreed, something like

Briere + Gagne + JVR

for

Kovalchuk + Little

does not bother me so much as long as we locked up Kovalchuk.

Then again, Kovalchuk better be willing to take a contract under $7m a year.

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02-04-2010, 11:31 AM
  #64
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But for a rental? No way. If we were able to sign him then I don't have a big problem with getting rid of JvR, Gagne and Briere if need be. For a rental, not a chance. If we don't make the playoffs and go really deep, it's not worth it.
Oh yeah, no doubt.

Rental = no way
Re-sign = sure, whatever

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02-04-2010, 11:36 AM
  #65
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I want Kovalchuk as much as the next guy, but there is no chance in hell I move JVR or Giroux for him, because even if he re-signs we need their cheap cap hits for the short term.

Whether we get him or not I just want this to be over. If its Hartnell Carle and a prospect I'm pretty freakin ecstatic though.

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02-04-2010, 11:38 AM
  #66
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Oh yeah, no doubt.

Rental = no way
Re-sign = sure, whatever
I still think giving up a 40-50 point player (Hartnell) OR 60-70 point player (Gagne), and a 70 point player (Briere), for a 90-100 point player (Kovy), hurts us. It also hurts us when we are trying to resign the likes of Giroux and Carter.

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02-04-2010, 11:38 AM
  #67
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I want Kovalchuk as much as the next guy, but there is no chance in hell I move JVR or Giroux for him, because even if he re-signs we need their cheap cap hits for the short term.

Whether we get him or not I just want this to be over. If its Hartnell Carle and a prospect I'm pretty freakin ecstatic though.
Hartnell, Carle, prospect is something I pull the trigger on.

Pronger and Timonen can carry their respective pairings, and Hartnell has been AWFUL lately. I mean really AWFUL. Painful to watch almost every game.

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02-04-2010, 11:39 AM
  #68
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Somehow, Atlanta's GM does not strike me as a greatest hockey mind. Takchuk trade, Coburn, Hossa and now Kovlachuk.. Maybe Homer can make a good Kovy deal?

If not, maybe Antropov & Boris Valabik for Hartnell, TKO type of deal?

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02-04-2010, 11:42 AM
  #69
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I still think giving up a 40-50 point player (Hartnell) OR 60-70 point player (Gagne), and a 70 point player (Briere), for a 90-100 point player (Kovy, hurts us. It also hurts us when we are trying to resign the likes of Giroux and Carter.
I disagree. Taking the lower ends of all these numbers.

40+70=110
Kovalchuk = 90

But now add another roster player who plays 3rd line (Leigein or Maroon) who would be capable of hitting 20-30 points and it's all even.

We lose some net presence, but that's what all the grinders on this team are for. Hartnell is overpaid for what he brings (at least this season). If we need someone to turnover the puck, take stupid penalties and screen the goalie, get Carcillo to do it.

Plus, in the Playoffs, I'd rather have Kovalchuk.

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02-04-2010, 11:42 AM
  #70
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I hope Holmgren offered Briere + Coburn and then hung up the phone when Waddell came back with Hartnell + Carle + JVR.
Homer apparently offered Hartnell + Carle according to Bob McKenzie.

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02-04-2010, 11:44 AM
  #71
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Call me a negative nancy but I think soon enough here we're going to have to embrace the fact that we probably won't be able to keep both JVR and Giroux in a couple years.

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02-04-2010, 11:44 AM
  #72
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Homer apparently offered Hartnell + Carle according to Bob McKenzie.
Not surprising, I would. Carle's defense is weak but he can move the puck. His production is a product of playing with Chris freakin Pronger.

Moving his salary is nice also. Hartnell is a loss in front of the net, but not much elsewhere.

For Kovalchuk, sign me up.

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02-04-2010, 11:45 AM
  #73
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Call me a negative nancy but I think soon enough here we're going to have to embrace the fact that we probably won't be able to keep both JVR and Giroux in a couple years.
Probably but in the meantime, they're good players with a cheap cap hit so that's really important.

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02-04-2010, 11:46 AM
  #74
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Call me a negative nancy but I think soon enough here we're going to have to embrace the fact that we probably won't be able to keep both JVR and Giroux in a couple years.
We could keep JVR and Giroux at the cost of Briere/Hartnell/Gagne basically.

I'd move one of Briere/Hartnell/Gagne today if I could, haha. (Granted it's Kovalchuk or something).

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02-04-2010, 11:46 AM
  #75
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I disagree. Taking the lower ends of all these numbers.

40+70=110
Kovalchuk = 90

But now add another roster player who plays 3rd line (Leigein or Maroon) who would be capable of hitting 20-30 points and it's all even.

We lose some net presence, but that's what all the grinders on this team are for. Hartnell is overpaid for what he brings (at least this season). If we need someone to turnover the puck, take stupid penalties and screen the goalie, get Carcillo to do it.

Plus, in the Playoffs, I'd rather have Kovalchuk.

Meh, thats hoping Legein and Maroon even do that well.

If we dont give up JVR and just Gagne/Briere or something along that, Id be fine with having Kovy (and we have some cap space for him to resign. Maybe he goes alittle cheaper if he is a good hockey town).

I dont trust Carcillo on anything higher then the 4th line. JVR (if we still have him) hopefully can take over Hartnell spot in front of the net.

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