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The Goalie Situation!! TRADE???

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Old
02-06-2010, 01:49 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...couldn't disagree more. The historical record over and over has shown that it's a pretty good indicator of what you can expect from year to year.



Which was misguided...because we went from the 5th best SVPCT in the NHL, to the 18th so far.

And the injuries matter...inability to remain healthy means you're inconsistent. Look, he's hurt again (clearly, despite what Holmgren is saying if he's not getting in net tonight against Minnesota).

And there's no way to make a logical argument that Biron was "really bad." 5th and 8th in the league in team SVPCT. The Biron/Nitty tandem was quite good.



So has Emery. So has every goalie in the NHL.

Last year Biron turned it on down the stretch and was a big reason why we even made it to the playoffs. The year before he got us to the ECF pretty much on his own (with a bit of help from Umberger).

Jester wins. Saying Emery is significantly better/more consistent than Biron is just looking through rose-colored lenses.

Biron was unfairly blamed for all of this team's problems, when in reality he was very solid (he had a few bad games, but even Martin Brodeur gets pumped full of goals sometimes), especially down the stretch and in the playoffs.

If you think Sugar Ray is really that good, you're just being foolish. He's having a decent year - when he's in the lineup - but at this point I wouldn't mind having Biron back at all. At least he didn't tear a muscle every other start.

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02-06-2010, 01:50 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Why was there a "goalie controversy" at one point last year then if Biron did that good?
Because Dumb Coach + Philly Media = Goalie Controversy.

If John Stevens was still the coach, I would fully expect him not to have gone back to Emery the way Lavy did given how Leighton was playing...then we would have had yet another goalie controversy.

Biron's monthly splits over the course of the season last year:

.882, .911, .901, .921, .925, .934, .908

Slow start, and then a stellar season from a starting goaltender.

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02-06-2010, 01:53 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I'm going to answer this because your gonna get a huge post by some people saying how Boucher should be our backup still. Some people like Boucher, others like Leighton, thats what it comes down to.
It also comes down to the salary cap. Boucher has a contract. Leighton doesn't.

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02-06-2010, 01:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Because Dumb Coach + Philly Media = Goalie Controversy.

If John Stevens was still the coach, I would fully expect him not to have gone back to Emery the way Lavy did given how Leighton was playing...then we would have had yet another goalie controversy.

Biron's monthly splits over the course of the season last year:

.882, .911, .901, .921, .925, .934, .908

Slow start, and then a stellar season from a starting goaltender.
If he was so stellar why didnt we resign him then taking a guy who had, supposedly, anger problems and played in the KHL?

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02-06-2010, 01:57 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Because hockey + Philly Media = Goalie Controversy.
Fixed it for ya, Jester...

In Philadelphia, all it takes to create a goalie controversy is for the starter to have one off night, and the backup to pick up one or two decent starts afterward. Then the media runs rampant with speculation on who should become the new goaltender, and boom, goalie controversy. If the Flyers somehow manipulated time to get Bernie Parent in his prime on today's team, with today's media, he would be ostracized after every less-than-stellar performance and his viability would be instantly questioned.

Philadelphia's perception and understanding of goaltending is whacked.

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02-06-2010, 01:58 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
If he was so stellar why didnt we resign him then taking a guy who had, supposedly, anger problems and played in the KHL?
Because Biron wanted to get a payday he thought was commensurate with his performance, so we went ahead and got Emery - a lateral move at best - on July 1st because Homer doesn't like to let question marks linger. Also, Homer LOVES his reclamation projects.

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02-06-2010, 01:59 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Because Biron wanted to get a payday he thought was commensurate with his performance, so we went ahead and got Emery - a lateral move at best - on July 1st because Homer doesn't like to let question marks linger.
If he was so good though, wouldnt we pay it to keep him? Homer must of though that this KHL goalie was as good as him if he decided not to resign Biron.

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02-06-2010, 01:59 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
If he was so stellar why didnt we resign him then taking a guy who had, supposedly, anger problems and played in the KHL?
Because Biron wanted and earned more cash than we could afford, and Holmgren has zero patience/ability at playing the market (note how we had both goalie positions signed within a few hours of the UFA market opening).

It's going to be a problem yet again this year if Emery decides he doesn't want to play for **** money for a starting NHL goalie. I'm sure Holmgren also thought he was being sneaky and going to pull a rabbit out of a hat...and, here we are, with a technically unsound athletic goalie (who has been hurt for a significant stretch of the season) and no cap space to pay for a legit NHL starting goalie.

My thoughts on Holmgren being a **** GM are pretty well established.

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02-06-2010, 02:00 PM
  #34
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lets make a deal for Price roll with Price/Emery/Leighton till summer

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02-06-2010, 02:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Because Biron wanted and earned more cash than we could afford, and Holmgren has zero patience/ability at playing the market (note how we had both goalie positions signed within a few hours of the UFA market opening).

It's going to be a problem yet again this year if Emery decides he doesn't want to play for **** money for a starting NHL goalie. I'm sure Holmgren also thought he was being sneaky and going to pull a rabbit out of a hat...and, here we are, with a technically unsound athletic goalie (who has been hurt for a significant stretch of the season) and no cap space to pay for a legit NHL starting goalie.

My thoughts on Holmgren being a **** GM are pretty well established.
Do you consider Biron a legit NHL starting goalie? And if so, why is he the 3rd goalie on an average Islanders team?

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02-06-2010, 02:04 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Do you consider Biron a legit NHL starting goalie? And if so, why is he the 3rd goalie on an average Islanders team?
Yes, he sort of proved that in his two years here.

Because they signed Ricky D to an absurd lifetime contract (that looks AWESOME these days), and Roloson has played well. It happens, there is not equal distribution of goalies in the NHL.

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02-06-2010, 02:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Mike Richards 18 View Post
lets make a deal for Price roll with Price/Emery/Leighton till summer
Let's post something that actually could happen!

Run with Emery/Leighton/Boucher till summer and go from there.

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Old
02-06-2010, 02:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Let's post something that actually could happen!

Run with Emery/Leighton/Boucher till summer and go from there.
Pretty much what's going to happen, unless Holmgren makes a huge trade that restructures the core of this team in some way.

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02-06-2010, 02:14 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Last year Biron turned it on down the stretch and was a big reason why we even made it to the playoffs. The year before he got us to the ECF pretty much on his own (with a bit of help from Umberger).
He was playing very well (extremely so by his usual standards) and may have even done more than his share....but let's not get too carried away here. Briere had a good play offs. Timonen and Coburn were both good. Umberger (like you said), and Jones played their very best hockey. Hatch was out there doing it on one knee. Lupul, Smith, Knuble, Richie, Carter were all pretty solid too.

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02-06-2010, 02:24 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Do you consider Biron a legit NHL starting goalie? And if so, why is he the 3rd goalie on an average Islanders team?
Dwayne Roloson is very good and a bit under rated in my opinion, and Rick DiPietro healthy is a top 10 goalie.

There is also the issue of Biron's skill set. Biron is not really a bail out goalie. He will make almost all the saves he's supposed to, has good vision, and will make some pretty nice saves with his hands from time to time. He's a good goalie for a team with a great defense. The Islanders aren't that team and the skill set of Roloson and Dipi matches what they need better (more agile goalies, with better footwork than Biron). Those guys might not be as strong on the shots from the outside as Biron, but it almost doesn't matter, because the Idles D is so bad the majority of the shots their goalies see will probably be legit chances.

If you give Dipi, Rollie and Biron 1000 Point shots and see who has the better percentage. It will probably be close, but I would put some money on Biron.

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02-06-2010, 02:30 PM
  #41
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He was playing very well (extremely so by his usual standards) and may have even done more than his share....but let's not get too carried away here. Briere had a good play offs. Timonen and Coburn were both good. Umberger (like you said), and Jones played their very best hockey. Hatch was out there doing it on one knee. Lupul, Smith, Knuble, Richie, Carter were all pretty solid too.
The Washington series was a team effort...Montreal, was almost entirely Biron as far as winning. He was playing out of his mind against them. Briere, for example, lit up Washington, but only had 3 pts in the Montreal series.

Montreal was all over us in that series, 35+ shots a game. Biron put up a .921 SVPCT and still had a 2.79 GAA (ridiculous). If Price and Halak hadn't collectively **** the bed against us, it would have been an entirely different story even with Biron playing that well.

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02-06-2010, 02:33 PM
  #42
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The Washington series was a team effort...Montreal, was almost entirely Biron as far as winning. He was playing out of his mind against them. Briere, for example, lit up Washington, but only had 3 pts in the Montreal series.

Montreal was all over us in that series, 35+ shots a game. Biron put up a .921 SVPCT and still had a 2.79 GAA (ridiculous). If Price and Halak hadn't collectively **** the bed against us, it would have been an entirely different story even with Biron playing that well.
That's true, and he doesn't/didn't get nearly the credit he deserved for it. Montreal was the better team for most of that series, but Biron was outstanding.

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02-06-2010, 02:35 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The Washington series was a team effort...Montreal, was almost entirely Biron as far as winning. He was playing out of his mind against them. Briere, for example, lit up Washington, but only had 3 pts in the Montreal series.

Montreal was all over us in that series, 35+ shots a game. Biron put up a .921 SVPCT and still had a 2.79 GAA (ridiculous). If Price and Halak hadn't collectively **** the bed against us, it would have been an entirely different story even with Biron playing that well.
3 points in five games isn't exactly bad. You're right about Montreal's goalies though.

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02-06-2010, 02:45 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The Washington series was a team effort...Montreal, was almost entirely Biron as far as winning. He was playing out of his mind against them. Briere, for example, lit up Washington, but only had 3 pts in the Montreal series.

Montreal was all over us in that series, 35+ shots a game. Biron put up a .921 SVPCT and still had a 2.79 GAA (ridiculous). If Price and Halak hadn't collectively **** the bed against us, it would have been an entirely different story even with Biron playing that well.
you forgot RJ Umberger, Price made that guy some cash on his next contarct

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02-06-2010, 02:56 PM
  #45
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If he was so good though, wouldnt we pay it to keep him? Homer must of though that this KHL goalie was as good as him if he decided not to resign Biron.
Are you just asking these questions to be contrary, or do you really not understand the Flyers' history with goaltenders (or salary cap woes, for that matter)?

1) Biron was asking for too much. He is a good starting goaltender; not a great one, nothing tremendous, but solid. Serviceable. Just fine and dandy, with the ability to get hot in the playoffs...IE, exactly what a team with our firepower and defense needs. However, he priced himself out of our range because our salary cap situation is a mess, and Holmgren simply couldn't have afforded him at the price he was asking. And yes, Biron (or his agent) tried to overvalue him a bit.

2) This team's management firmly believes that the goaltender is the least important position on the ice, and if given the option between signing a proven starter for a big contract or picking up an unknown who they think might be good enough while saving them cap space to improve other positions on the team, they're not going to sign the proven goaltender. Which is beyond me, because how many times has this franchise won a Cup without an elite netminder? Oh, right...

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02-06-2010, 03:12 PM
  #46
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So if you bring back Biron we have what.... 4 crappy goalies?

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02-06-2010, 03:16 PM
  #47
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you forgot RJ Umberger, Price made that guy some cash on his next contarct
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Last year Biron turned it on down the stretch and was a big reason why we even made it to the playoffs. The year before he got us to the ECF pretty much on his own (with a bit of help from Umberger).
That series was pure comedy... I would have been so furious/frustrated if I was a Habs fan. A couple of those games they completely dominated and still lost.

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02-06-2010, 03:17 PM
  #48
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So if you bring back Biron we have what.... 4 crappy goalies?
Not at all. We have:

1 okay starter
1 okay but injury prone starter
2 mediocre backups

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02-06-2010, 03:35 PM
  #49
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I don't want Biron back

A return of Biron will confuse this situation even worse. Leighton is a decent goalie and should be given a chance to shine in Emory's absence.
I don't think they have a huge contract with Emory, so I'd say either trade him or release him if the opportunity to get a decent replacement is available before the trade freeze.
The team needs to get behind one particular goalie,(if they make a push for the playoffs).
Boucher is definitely the odd man out here. His return has been a failure.....just as any return of a goalie like Biron would be.

If you want to know who I'd offer as trade bait, how about Briere. Just get rid of that whole love affair we seemed to have with ex-Sabres and move forward.

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02-06-2010, 03:41 PM
  #50
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A return of Biron will make Holmgren look like an idiot, to everyone. If you're Ed Snider, and Holmgren brings back Biron, the question immediately from him is why he didn't bring him back to begin with?

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