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The Goalie Situation!! TRADE???

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Old
02-06-2010, 03:46 PM
  #51
ShawnTHW
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
A return of Biron will confuse this situation even worse. Leighton is a decent goalie and should be given a chance to shine in Emory's absence.
I don't think they have a huge contract with Emory, so I'd say either trade him or release him if the opportunity to get a decent replacement is available before the trade freeze.
The team needs to get behind one particular goalie,(if they make a push for the playoffs).
Boucher is definitely the odd man out here. His return has been a failure.....just as any return of a goalie like Biron would be.

If you want to know who I'd offer as trade bait, how about Briere. Just get rid of that whole love affair we seemed to have with ex-Sabres and move forward.
Well said.

If Biron comes back to this team as the starter, I officially will write off all chances they have at winning a cup.

I HATE BIRON!!!!!!!

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02-06-2010, 03:47 PM
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I want Halak on this team badly. He's only played 83 games but the .920 career save percentage is nice and his ceiling is high. He probably won't be top 5 but he'll be head and shoulders above Biron or Emery.

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02-06-2010, 03:51 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I want Halak on this team badly. He's only played 83 games but the .920 career save percentage is nice and his ceiling is high. He probably won't be top 5 but he'll be head and shoulders above Biron or Emery.
Did you see those saves near the end of the game today
I have wanted Halak for 2 months now, but the only way Halak is traded is if someone way overpays ie Carter type. Like always, we missed our chance at getting him cheap

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02-06-2010, 03:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I want Halak on this team badly. He's only played 83 games but the .920 career save percentage is nice and his ceiling is high. He probably won't be top 5 but he'll be head and shoulders above Biron or Emery.
Should've drafted him then. I don't think he's leaving Montreal this season.

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02-06-2010, 03:53 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Last year Biron turned it on down the stretch and was a big reason why we even made it to the playoffs. The year before he got us to the ECF pretty much on his own (with a bit of help from Umberger).
This has got to be a joke.

From March 23rd till the end of the regular season, the Flyers didn't beat one playoff team. Their loss in the final game of the year, in which Biron started, cost them home-ice advantage in the playoffs. In that game he gave up goals to the best two snipers on the Rangers, Sean Avery and Blair Betts.

The Flyers were in a better playoff position before the stretch last year.

The Flyers won only 3 of their final 7 games of the year, with losses to Toronto, Ottawa, and the Rangers (twice).

How can you possibly say that Biron "turned it on" and criticize others for seeing Emery in a positive light? Hypocrisy at its finest.

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02-06-2010, 03:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Dead Milkman View Post
This has got to be a joke.

From March 23rd till the end of the regular season, the Flyers didn't beat one playoff team. Their loss in the final game of the year, in which Biron started, cost them home-ice advantage in the playoffs. In that game he gave up goals to the best two snipers on the Rangers, Sean Avery and Blair Betts.

The Flyers were in a better playoff position before the stretch last year.

The Flyers won only 3 of their final 7 games of the year, with losses to Toronto, Ottawa, and the Rangers (twice).

How can you possibly say that Biron "turned it on" and criticize others for seeing Emery in a positive light? Hypocrisy at its finest.
Im not a fan of Emery's at all, but I would still take him over Biron anyday of the week and twice on Sundays.

Good post.

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02-06-2010, 04:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Milkman View Post
This has got to be a joke.

From March 23rd till the end of the regular season, the Flyers didn't beat one playoff team. Their loss in the final game of the year, in which Biron started, cost them home-ice advantage in the playoffs. In that game he gave up goals to the best two snipers on the Rangers, Sean Avery and Blair Betts.

The Flyers were in a better playoff position before the stretch last year.

The Flyers won only 3 of their final 7 games of the year, with losses to Toronto, Ottawa, and the Rangers (twice).

How can you possibly say that Biron "turned it on" and criticize others for seeing Emery in a positive light? Hypocrisy at its finest.
It's not. Biron was a major reason we stayed a float, while everyone else besides Briere and Giroux hit the deck. None of that was by fault of Biron. They were far and away the best Flyers, and who scored goals in the last game of the season has nothing to do with it.

The complete disintegration of the team last year was the ultimate condemnation of the coaching staff.

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02-06-2010, 04:12 PM
  #58
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when are we going to have a sticky about the goaltending crisis we are somehow always in?

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02-06-2010, 04:24 PM
  #59
Bort Sampson
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It's not. Biron was a major reason we stayed a float, while everyone else besides Briere and Giroux hit the deck. None of that was by fault of Biron. They were far and away the best Flyers, and who scored goals in the last game of the season has nothing to do with it.

The complete disintegration of the team last year was the ultimate condemnation of the coaching staff.
The only reason the Flyers stayed afloat down the stretch was because they were able to beat the Islanders, Toronto (giving up 5 goals), and the Panthers. None of those are playoff teams. They lost to the only playoff team they played, which was a struggling Rangers team.

Biron also handed(literally) the Penguins a victory last year. Even 1 point from that game would have given the Flyers home-ice advantage.

And that is the definition of hypocrisy. One poster looked at Emery in a positive light amidst partial failure, whereas Jester criticized that poster and looked at Biron in a positive light amidst partial failure.

Also, you're right, it doesn't matter who scored those goals against the Flyers, it's how they were scored:

http://flyers.nhl.tv/team/console.js...,1229&fr=false

Goal 2 for the Rangers- Biron is given the shooter on a 2-1 on 1 (defenseman tied up the open forward), ends up on his behind and gives up an empty net
Goal 3 for the Rangers- Biron somehow gives up a high shot under the crossbar while standing up
Goal 4 for the rangers- Biron stops Betts on the first chance(because Betts fanned on it), then hands him the rebound

Biron made his career in Philly on a playoff series in which the Habs shot at Biron's glove when given open nets and Price couldn't stop...anything. If anyone gets credit for that series it should go to the Canadiens themselves.


Last edited by Bort Sampson: 02-06-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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02-06-2010, 04:33 PM
  #60
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by 385 View Post
Not sure what the consensus on Biron returning here is, but he is certainly available, and likely for relatively cheap.

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And that is the definition of hypocrisy. One poster looked at Emery in a positive light amidst partial failure, whereas Jester criticized that poster and looked at Biron in a positive light amidst partial failure.
lol .... equality.


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 02-06-2010 at 04:52 PM.
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02-06-2010, 04:37 PM
  #61
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Flyers are fine. They have'nt had a top grade goalie since Bernie Parent; They don't need no stinkin good goalie!

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02-06-2010, 04:37 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I want Halak on this team badly. He's only played 83 games but the .920 career save percentage is nice and his ceiling is high. He probably won't be top 5 but he'll be head and shoulders above Biron or Emery.
I think we missed our chance to deal for him this season.

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02-06-2010, 04:43 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Dead Milkman View Post
The only reason the Flyers stayed afloat down the stretch was because they were able to beat the Islanders, Toronto (giving up 5 goals), and the Panthers. None of those are playoff teams. They lost to the only playoff team they played, which was a struggling Rangers team.

Biron also handed(literally) the Penguins a victory last year. Even 1 point from that game would have given the Flyers home-ice advantage.

And that is the definition of hypocrisy. One poster looked at Emery in a positive light amidst partial failure, whereas Jester criticized that poster and looked at Biron in a positive light amidst partial failure.

Also, you're right, it doesn't matter who scored those goals against the Flyers, it's how they were scored:

http://flyers.nhl.tv/team/console.js...,1229&fr=false

Goal 2 for the Rangers- Biron is given the shooter on a 2-1 on 1 (defenseman tied up the open forward), ends up on his behind and gives up an empty net
Goal 3 for the Rangers- Biron somehow gives up a high shot under the crossbar while standing up
Goal 4 for the rangers- Biron stops Betts on the first chance(because Betts fanned on it), then hands him the rebound

Biron made his career in Philly on a playoff series in which the Habs shot at Biron's glove when given open nets and Price couldn't stop...anything. If anyone gets credit for that series it should go to the Canadiens themselves.
Marc-Andre Fleury gave up goals to Darroll Powe, Jared Ross, Dan Carcillo and Arron Asham last year in the playoffs, in consecutive games, I didn't see him nailed to the cross.

No one argues that Biron is a superstar, but he was still one of the best Flyers down the stretch. He was a major reason the team stayed in the playoffs, because they were much closer to missing the playoffs than people want to admit.

Yeah, they needed 1 point in that Rangers game. They should have thought about that when they played Ottawa 8 days before that and laid an egg, with the coach PRAISING them for it. This 24-48 hours after Paul Holmgren laid into Carter and Richards and they demolished Toronto 8-5.

Top to bottom last year they were a definition of a fraud. From Christmas to Easter they won NINE games against teams who made the following playoffs.


Last edited by GKJ: 02-06-2010 at 04:48 PM.
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02-06-2010, 04:48 PM
  #64
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Flyers are fine. They have'nt had a top grade goalie since Bernie Parent; They don't need no stinkin good goalie!
Lindbergh
Hextall

Come on now.

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02-06-2010, 04:54 PM
  #65
Bernie Parent 1974
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just the thought of Biron fumbling that puck shot from the boards vs PITT sickens me still ....

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02-06-2010, 04:54 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smacklby View Post
Flyers are fine. They have'nt had a top grade goalie since Bernie Parent; They don't need no stinkin good goalie!
true we've gotten multiple cups since Parent....

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02-06-2010, 05:17 PM
  #67
Bort Sampson
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Marc-Andre Fleury gave up goals to Darroll Powe, Jared Ross, Dan Carcillo and Arron Asham last year in the playoffs, in consecutive games, I didn't see him nailed to the cross.

No one argues that Biron is a superstar, but he was still one of the best Flyers down the stretch. He was a major reason the team stayed in the playoffs, because they were much closer to missing the playoffs than people want to admit.

Yeah, they needed 1 point in that Rangers game. They should have thought about that when they played Ottawa 8 days before that and laid an egg, with the coach PRAISING them for it. This 24-48 hours after Paul Holmgren laid into Carter and Richards and they demolished Toronto 8-5.

Top to bottom last year they were a definition of a fraud. From Christmas to Easter they won NINE games against teams who made the following playoffs.
It's great to say that Biron did all that down the stretch, but you're going to actually explain how he did it to convince me. I watched literally every single Flyers game last season, some twice (boredom). Biron was shaky even in wins. If you're going to blame the team for playing awful hockey during the second half of the season, you've got to take into account the play of the goaltender(especially since Niittymaki was a solid 15-8-5 last season in limited action).

Also, you said earlier that it's not who scores, so I posted a video illustrating just how bad Biron was when it really (really) mattered. If the last game of the season constitutes a game "down the stretch", then Biron was pretty awful down the stretch when it mattered. I'm not going to judge him based on what the score sheet read, I'm going to judge him based on his actual play and technical ability. He was shaky in wins (especially with leads), gave up a ton of rebounds, was incapable of solid play over the course of a whole game, and could not move laterally in the net. Outside of the crease he was downright embarrassing. He also couldn't read plays well. He made very poor decisions on the fly. Like a lot of other backups, his most stellar play came when he was at the top of the crease, and his weaknesses were apparent almost everywhere else.

I'm not even mentioning Emery. I don't think Emery is an all-star or even one of the better starters in the league. But actually going out and getting Biron for anything at this point would be a mistake. He may have been better last year, but this year he's been absolutely terrible.

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02-06-2010, 05:22 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Dead Milkman View Post
It's great to say that Biron did all that down the stretch, but you're going to actually explain how he did it to convince me. I watched literally every single Flyers game last season, some twice (boredom). Biron was shaky even in wins. If you're going to blame the team for playing awful hockey during the second half of the season, you've got to take into account the play of the goaltender(especially since Niittymaki was a solid 15-8-5 last season in limited action).

Also, you said earlier that it's not who scores, so I posted a video illustrating just how bad Biron was when it really (really) mattered. If the last game of the season constitutes a game "down the stretch", then Biron was pretty awful down the stretch when it mattered. I'm not going to judge him based on what the score sheet read, I'm going to judge him based on his actual play and technical ability. He was shaky in wins (especially with leads), gave up a ton of rebounds, was incapable of solid play over the course of a whole game, and could not move laterally in the net.

I'm not even mentioning Emery. I don't think Emery is an all-star or even one of the better starters in the league. But actually going out and getting Biron for anything at this point would be a mistake. He may have been better last year, but this year he's been absolutely terrible.
If you watched the games, then you should know what I'm talking about. He was shaky in wins, but he still won them, and was still very very good.

What matters more? Actually making the playoffs, or getting home ice? The whole team played like they had nothing to gain once they clinched a playoff spot.

And I was a solid Niitty backer his whole time here as well.

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02-06-2010, 06:34 PM
  #69
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Should've drafted him then. I don't think he's leaving Montreal this season.
Can't we give them Briere & Emery for Halak? They wanted Briere so much that they even still boo him every time the Flyers play up in Montreal. If they want that over-priced/over-rated ex-Sabre so much, I say bon soir mon ami!

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02-06-2010, 06:40 PM
  #70
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This has got to be a joke.

From March 23rd till the end of the regular season, the Flyers didn't beat one playoff team. Their loss in the final game of the year, in which Biron started, cost them home-ice advantage in the playoffs. In that game he gave up goals to the best two snipers on the Rangers, Sean Avery and Blair Betts.

The Flyers were in a better playoff position before the stretch last year.

The Flyers won only 3 of their final 7 games of the year, with losses to Toronto, Ottawa, and the Rangers (twice).

How can you possibly say that Biron "turned it on" and criticize others for seeing Emery in a positive light? Hypocrisy at its finest.
Biron's monthly splits over the course of the season last year:

.882, .911, .901, .921 [jan], .925 [feb], .934 [march], .908

Don't let the fact get in the way of your good story, though.

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02-06-2010, 06:45 PM
  #71
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It's so funny, many people dislike Biron intensely, and I'm feeling the same way about Emery. I want the Flyers to deal Emery/Briere for Jaroslav Halak. He's currently the back up to Price, but could easily be our starter.....and he's only 24 years old!!

Enough with trash like Emery-Biron-Boucher etc.

I want our two goalies to be Halak/Leighton!

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02-06-2010, 06:48 PM
  #72
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Can't we give them Briere & Emery for Halak? They wanted Briere so much that they even still boo him every time the Flyers play up in Montreal. If they want that over-priced/over-rated ex-Sabre so much, I say bon soir mon ami!
Probably not, they're capped out.

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02-06-2010, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If you watched the games, then you should know what I'm talking about. He was shaky in wins, but he still won them, and was still very very good.

What matters more? Actually making the playoffs, or getting home ice? The whole team played like they had nothing to gain once they clinched a playoff spot.

And I was a solid Niitty backer his whole time here as well.
I can admit that he was very, very good at times, but he was exposed as a backup in a starter's position last season. He had good stats, but the team was actually pretty spectacular defensively (as a whole) last year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he was the reason the Flyers fell apart at the end of the regular season. He was merely part of a team that fell apart at the end of the regular season. That video I posted of the highlights against the Rangers really illustrates that. The 2nd goal by Dubinsky, the short-handed one, was failure by everyone on the ice. The Avery goal was failure by the defense to read the trailer, but also failure by Biron in his technical play (it looks nice because it was beneath the crossbar, but that's a save for most goalies). The Betts goal was the fault of the forwards for poor neutral zone play, fault of the defensemen for not recognizing Betts' position, and failure by Biron in holding onto a ridiculously weak shot.

I just think that if you're going to give Biron credit for staying in a playoff spot, you've got to give credit to more people than him and Giroux. With the same respect, if you're going to place the blame on Biron for the downward spiral last year (not saying you are, just an example), you've got a lot of other people who are worthy or more worthy of blame than Biron.

The real problem I have is with anyone actually regretting letting Biron go and not realizing how stupid it was the let Niitty go. They let Knuble(was with the Flyers from 2005-2009) walk to Free Agency, where he's getting paid the exact same amount as last season and is just as, if not more, effective. They let Niittymaki(was with the Flyers from 2002-2009) walk to Free Agency, where he actually took a substantial pay cut and is much more effective behind a worse team. It's just absurd that people think that obtaining Biron, who's done worse since moving on, would somehow counteract the loss of two much more important/successful pieces in Niitymaki and Knuble.

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02-06-2010, 06:56 PM
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I think Emery has been very good for us...this nonsense about shakiness is disheartening. He has played well when he has been healthy, and the puck has stayed out of the net.

Flyer fans want a guy with all the hoopla and media frenzy that follows maybe 2 or 3 goalies in the entire league, and we call them "bona fide" goalies. Toughest position on the ice, and many of these guys are just spectacular, but you wouldn't know it unless it hit you in the face. Emery/Leighton/Boucher is FINE (as long as we are healthy) and to me, is an upgrade over Biron/Niity.

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02-06-2010, 06:57 PM
  #75
Bort Sampson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Biron's monthly splits over the course of the season last year:

.882, .911, .901, .921 [jan], .925 [feb], .934 [march], .908

Don't let the fact get in the way of your good story, though.
See the bolded.

How does March constitute "down the stretch" but not April?

You know, April. The month in which the Flyers fell out of the top 4, and the month where they had the easiest schedule they had over the course of the whole season. In addition, the month in which Biron's save percentage dropped from .934 to .908 while only facing one playoff team. April, the month where the only playoff team the Flyers played was the struggling Rangers.

Also, thanks for being condescending. I love arguing stats with no insight into actual qualitative performance.

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