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some thoughts on the bruins...

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Old
02-06-2010, 03:05 PM
  #1
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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some thoughts on the bruins...

i am a bruins fan but im guessing many of you will say im not with this thread... and i realize most of you will tell me to get back to nhl 10 so im going to say haha and save you the trouble of such a witty and clever retort

if anyone does have some opinions of value to add to my post here, then i will be interested to see if any of my ideas spark some debate that might entertain.

first off, my idea for doing this is something went wrong with my team this year... some breakdown in chemistry or something... maybe injuries hurt, but certain weaknesses were exposed and the teams cap managment is a mess preventing any type of reasonable fix on the fly... so i do think time for a rebuild and i think maybe we got the pieces to do it quite quickly if we act decisively

so, without much else wasted here i will toss out a couple trade ideas and get things going. probably come back to defend myself later when everyone rips me apart for being an idiot.

the rebuild i think needs to start with chara. i would use the money freed up to go after kovalchuck come ufa... so keep in mind that is part of my plan.

chara himself should be worth even more then kovalchuck was in trade... a top 3/4 dman in this league... signed for a couple years... had some playoff success... definitely a lot of regular season success.

i think chara could make the differnce for a team like vancouver in their cup asperations this year. and they certainly have a couple tradable assets Boston could really use. Hodgeson is at the top of the list... he seems to be wanting out of vancouver and obviously had a lot of bad luck with his injury this year. Schiender would be of interest to Boston I think... local area connections... would make Thomas expendable. Vancouver has a couple dmen they might trade to make room for chara... maybe edler would be available? maybe a first rounder could be had? Vancouver might want satan or recchi to add some depth for the playoffs... they can have both if they want both. I wouldnt care.

the key for me is adding 2-3 young guys that can be part of a bruin dynasty run in 3-4 years time... i think this deal would give us a chance for that... and would free up a ton of cap space.

with chara gone... our chance for any playoff success this year is gone too... so deal thomas next. i guess only philly/detroit stand out as likely trade partners for thomas. both teams are well known for being willing to give up a first rounder for a missing piece at playoff time. If we could package wideman or ryder along for the ride and upgrade the return to something like colburn or hudler/1st id be overjoyed.

bergeron becomes the 3rd primary piece id move... his value is higher then krecjis i think at the moment... and his cost is higher... and hes a bit older... so i think boston doesnt need both players. cant afford both players. i look around the league to see who needs a frrst line center and think calgary/columbus jump to mind


columbus has a headache on their hands with filatov...

so if my trade ideas work... boston moves chara/thomas/bergeron/and maybe ryder/wideman and of course pieces like recchi/satan/ferrence/hunwick are easily affordable to go too... and they free up at least 17 million just in chara/thomas/bergeron leaving.

in return i am hoping hodgeson/colburn/schiender/filatov and a pick or two come back.. maybe edler or bieska... mostly its the kids i want.

im going to think boston guarantees itself a bottom 5 finish after dealing chara/bergeron/thomas

and we got the toronto pick.

and then im going to think boston goes hog wild to get kovalchuck signed this offseason and maybe someone like hamhuis too.


when the dust settles... going into the future the team looks a bit like this...


kovalchuck joins savard and maybe wheeler to give the team a first line that scores
krecji anchors a second line with lucic and maybe filatov
hodgeson joins sturm and maybe hamil or caron for a good third line

maybe spend our draft picks on fowler and resign morris... have hamhuis and colburn around and stuart... the defense should be ok

rask should be the real deal in net... but having schnieder come on board gives the team protection. two highly prized studs here

we would have 2 picks this year... could easily add a stud forward. we have colburn almost ready to fight for a job too. marchard should be able to play as early as next year. paille might have a future.

so i dont really think my proposals are radically stupid for boston. bruin fans hate the idea of moving bergeron cause he is a huge fan fav... dont want to move chara cause he is our best player... and thomas won the vezina last year.

i do understand why bruin fans hate my idea... but im not really asking them for their opinins here. ive made a thread like this on our own board and know they hate my ideas.

im far more interested what neutral observers think of my valuation. if they would offer more for chara/bergeron/thomas and company then id welcome their own proposals.

and for everyone that says holy nhl 10 this is stupid... save your comments if you wish. weve all read such witty banter 10000 times before and to be honest it wasnt so witty the first time even

my piece is said... and im fair game for those who wish to participate with anything that might be worth taking up server space here in respnse

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Old
02-06-2010, 03:16 PM
  #2
Basikk
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Amen.

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02-06-2010, 03:30 PM
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Um... Nicely I doubt Vancouver deals Edler, Hodgson, Schneider and a 1st for Chara.

Vancouver needs more youth on the Backend to go with Edler and Ehroff. And as for the Hodgson thing He looks as if he has gotten passed and doesn't give a damn about AV's brainfart comments and cares more about playing the game then the politics. I highly doubt Hodgson wants to leave Vancouver and I doubt Gillis is willing to move him.

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02-06-2010, 03:45 PM
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dead_golem
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I apologize if I didn't read your entire post, but I got as far as your idea of trading Chara to Vancouver and stopped.

You want to trade Chara, to free up cap space for the bruins, by trading him to a team that on no planet has enough cap space to take him on. Moreover, all the pieces you mention as possibly coming back aren't moving anywhere near enough salary for Van to even consider this--you can't trade a guy who makes 7.5mil a season to a team with almost no cap space for picks and prospects.

Next, who the hell is going to play defense for a team that lacks defensive depth for the bruins, if your plan is to go after Kovalchuk with the freed up money?

Oh, and Thomas has a NTC for first 2 years of the contract he signed last summer.

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02-06-2010, 04:06 PM
  #5
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_golem View Post
I apologize if I didn't read your entire post, but I got as far as your idea of trading Chara to Vancouver and stopped.

You want to trade Chara, to free up cap space for the bruins, by trading him to a team that on no planet has enough cap space to take him on. Moreover, all the pieces you mention as possibly coming back aren't moving anywhere near enough salary for Van to even consider this--you can't trade a guy who makes 7.5mil a season to a team with almost no cap space for picks and prospects.

Next, who the hell is going to play defense for a team that lacks defensive depth for the bruins, if your plan is to go after Kovalchuk with the freed up money?

Oh, and Thomas has a NTC for first 2 years of the contract he signed last summer.
to afford chara this year... vancouver needs to clear a bit of space probably. id suggest someone like demetra would need to be moved.

to afford him next year... i would guess they would let someone like salo/or mitchell move to greener pastures. for a player like chara you make the moves you must to fit him in.

if you dont like him on vancouver... thats your call... and i value your reply

as for thomas and his no move... hed have to waive it. im saying what id do if i was king of the hill. maybe id got to him and ask him nicely to move it? maybe id be a bit more mean about it? i cant trade him till he moves it so im assuming i asked nicely and he said ok.

if i can move sturm... he also would have agreed to it.

its possible players with no trade clauses will refuse trade requests... but its way more likely they simply want to approve of a trade before it happens.

not many players want to stay whee they arent wanted. most dont mind going to a place with a chance to win. maybe thomas would refuse to move and maybe he wouldnt

just to avaoid pointless arguments here... let me go on record saying i wouldnt trade thomas or anyone else with a no trade clause unless the waived the no trade clause first. and id try to make sure they would waive it

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02-06-2010, 04:24 PM
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I like chara but doesn't suit Vancouver and his salary ruins our salary structure. Plus given the years of lacking prospects we've had I doubt we give them all away for a 33 year old dman at that cost.

Otherwise I see many of the trades you suggested not working for cap reasons, and desire reasons for those other teams. Thomas is expensive and doesn't fit with Detroit for that reason (especially with how well Howard has done) Too expensive and too old for Philly.

Bergeron should be kept, he is one of your top two forwards and excellent two way player in general.

I agree with Thomas being expendable but most of these issues will work themselves out in two years and you aren't going to get the return you think you will on most of those contracts.

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Old
02-06-2010, 09:19 PM
  #7
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoaster View Post
I like chara but doesn't suit Vancouver and his salary ruins our salary structure. Plus given the years of lacking prospects we've had I doubt we give them all away for a 33 year old dman at that cost.

Otherwise I see many of the trades you suggested not working for cap reasons, and desire reasons for those other teams. Thomas is expensive and doesn't fit with Detroit for that reason (especially with how well Howard has done) Too expensive and too old for Philly.

Bergeron should be kept, he is one of your top two forwards and excellent two way player in general.

I agree with Thomas being expendable but most of these issues will work themselves out in two years and you aren't going to get the return you think you will on most of those contracts.
id have to start wheeling and dealing to know what id get for certain... but im not here to really quibble about exact particulars of any one trade. that would be a losing game for me to play since even if i am one of the gms involved... id be dealing with other gms and their own ideas.

if you say detroit wouldnt afford thomas... you may be right. if you say they will be willing to live and die with howard... you may be right again. id have to make the call to them to be certain.

i know they put a huge importance on winning cups. would they view thomas as a cup winner type???? im not sure. i dont. if i was them id probably try to trade for someone like turco... but then maybe dallas becomes the team that needs thomas. some teams can offer to let a guy to the khl and replace him with someone like thomas. there are ways to get out from a contract and the cap hit if a team is motivated enough to pursue that option.

heres another possibility for boston... work a behind the scenes side deal with a team. even if a player like chara is too expensive to keep next year... rent him to a team for a couple top prospects/picks for this season... then trade back for him next year and return the picks.

effectively you rent chara like kovalchuck was rented for only this one season and get a return similar to atlanta... but then you get the return of your player again so team B gets a chance for a cup this year... and you get a chance for a cup down the road.

its risky for both teams... chara could get hurt etc etc... the team might not make the return trade etc etc... but the benefits to both teams are obviously huge

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02-06-2010, 09:27 PM
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Marky9er
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Detroit does not want Thomas. Howard has been better than expected, and we do not need another aging goaltender. There would be so many better ways to spend 5m cap space.

I feel kind of the same way about Detroit as you do about the Bruins, just haven't reached the same frustration level yet.

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02-06-2010, 09:55 PM
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Ismellofhockey
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You could try some more simple moves before you blow up a team that won the division last year.
They lost a lot of goals by trading Kessel, and the loss has been compounded by another off season from Ryder. But more than goals, they also lost speed. The Bruins have plenty of truculence but Kessel allowed them to push back against speedier teams like Montreal and Buffalo.

With that in mind, two players I would target are Afinogenov and Kariya. Obviously Ryder has to be shipped out to make room.

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02-06-2010, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
You could try some more simple moves before you blow up a team that won the division last year.
They lost a lot of goals by trading Kessel, and the loss has been compounded by another off season from Ryder. But more than goals, they also lost speed. The Bruins have plenty of truculence but Kessel allowed them to push back against speedier teams like Montreal and Buffalo.

With that in mind, two players I would target are Afinogenov and Kariya. Obviously Ryder has to be shipped out to make room.
Believe me, there are plenty of B's fans that feel that way. This team is a player or two away from being good again, but this year has been an unmitigated disaster.

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02-06-2010, 10:20 PM
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Too long, didn't read

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02-06-2010, 11:14 PM
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You shouldn't look at a player like Kovalchuk in regards to Chara look at Pronger-. Chara should and would bring a kings ransom IMO. I don't think the Bruins are in need of a rebuild. Most of the pieces are already there. A proper pmd would go a long way in Boston. A trade however is needed to make guys understand. Oh and of all the prospects you listed you managed to spell one guy's name right. If you want them that bad try and learn how to spell their names at least

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02-06-2010, 11:28 PM
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mjsnipe
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wow.
well i can see you put a lot of thought into this
and yet i cant help but think ........................

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02-06-2010, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samwitch View Post
Too long, didn't read
Thanks for the necessary input, because your lone opinion was the one that really mattered.


OP: I don't think trading Chara or Bergeron is the right move. Everyone else you listed (Thomas, Sturm etc) I wouldn't be too upset to see them out the door.

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02-07-2010, 12:07 AM
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Chad29Johnson
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No one wants to trade Bergeron, that right there is Boston's problem... Kessel would have helped the bruins more than Patrice is. I know you couldn't have expected Rask to be this good but Kessel would have helped more than Thomas as well. Sure the top 3 pick will be a phenomenal player but moving Kessel i think was a big mistake.

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02-07-2010, 06:53 AM
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I stopped at clearing cap space to sign Kovy as a UFA. In what universe is Jacobs going to say "yes I want to tie up 100 million in that guy" and I also fail to see how Kovy turns down a rebuilding team where he already lives to move to play with another rebuilding team. Especially one where they seem to have a lot of players who are expected to take a 'hometown' discount.

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02-07-2010, 07:31 AM
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With all due respect, usually teams are built from goaltending out.

The Bruins goaltending is in good shape especially with Rask starting to play like a good #1 goaltender. Trading Thomas would free up cap space, but Rask could stumble a little like many young goaltenders do.

Next, teams build their defense, trading Chara sets the team back 5 years, he is not part of the problem, he is part of the solution.

Wideman, even though he hasn't had the best year and is now the whipping boy for Bruins fans, has played his best games of the year in the past few games and he looks like the Wideman of last year to me.

Stuart is a solid as a rock stay at home guy who has from time to time shown the ability to step up into the play to create some chances.

Boychuk has played way beyond my expectations and is also a keeper.

Morris is an UFA, Hunwick needs a little more time, but he is a gifted skater for a defenseman. Ference is an UFA.

If the Bruins can get a #2 defenseman who can move the puck well, I think their defense will be among the top half of the league quite easily. An upgrade on Morris would be nice, but if he is all they can get, he will do. The D isn't the problem.

Forwards, the Bruins have 3 very good centers and obviously were trying to build team depth, I think this is where they might want to change their direction a little. They need a top end winger for Savard, Kovalchuk would be great, so would Marleau, but with the cap, I would think they are going to have to sacrifice some of that depth in order to get a 1st line winger.

Could something like this work?

Kovalchuk/Marleau-Savard-Bergeron
Lucic-Krejci-Wheeler
Paille-Sobotka-Marchand
Bitz-Begin-Thornton

They would have to get rid of Sturm, Ryder, and probably Thomas, but that 1st line would score a ton of goals. The 2nd line would be pretty good as well, you have your classic 2 scoring lines, a checking line and an energy line. If they pick up one of the top few picks in the draft this year, that player can probably step in next year and maybe add a little more scoring to the 3rd line.

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