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Old
02-07-2010, 11:03 AM
  #76
Terence Peterman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
So did the Caps sell their soul to the Devil? What makes them have so much luck?
Everyone needs to stop bringing up the Caps. They're an offensive, regular season juggernaut. They're not built for the playoffs, and can still be badly exposed on any given night if the other team can keep its cool against their offense.

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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If you take a look at the good teams, there's at least one or two players who are willing to carry the team on their back when things are going bad. They step up their game and every one else seems to follow. Simply put, we don't have those kinds of players in Philadelphia. We have very good complimentary players who can go on streaks, but we don't have anybody who is willing to step forward to be that guy to carry the team.

Whether it be a lack of heart, lack of ability, or lack of caring (I really think it's this), we just don't have that guy. Something is awful in that locker room right now. Holmgren moved the "guilty parties" in Lupul and Upshall, but it's even worse now. So, something has to give.
I've got a friend who has been saying this for a long time. It's been true the entire duration of him saying it. As far as the locker room goes, I think this is the problem too...not necessarily that something is sour and chunky like real old milk.

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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
The rest of the NHL have found his weaknesses and he hasn't changed his game to compensate. I don't think he ever will either.
Ok, so you've said you've been a Flyers fan since the beginning, which is cool and all...but how much have you seen of Carter's career since the beginning? Dude's been the same player the whole way, and that he puts up the numbers he does without really adapting is incredible. That being said, it's not that opposing teams have figured him out, it's that his shooting percentage is down from 13.5% (top goalscorers' %) to 9% (you're below average NHLer or just plain unlucky average to superstar level NHLer). Put him at 13.5% and he's at 33 goals, with 26 games to reach the 40 plateau again. (Using those numbers would also have him surpass last year's goal total and would give him 48 this year. Talk about eye-opening!)

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We're now barely in 8th... This season sucks ass. I expected so much more
There were holes still left open by Holmgren&Co. at the beginning of the year. Chris Pronger will absolutely be key to any Cup the Flyers win in the next 7 years, but he won't be the only one. This roster has to be filled in a way that everyone knows their role. That's clearly not the case right now (Powe in the top six, third line center should be 100% locked in on this type of team, a healthy goalie, etc).

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Mods, do we really need a thread insulting Irish?
Oh, poor EJ.

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That's the mark of a sport in which an opposing player is charged with stopping 91% of all your opportunities.
Fantastic way to think of it.


Last edited by Terence Peterman: 02-07-2010 at 11:22 AM.
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02-07-2010, 12:48 PM
  #77
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i know this will probably sound dumb, but it's an observation that a buddy of mine and i saw during a game the flyers lost by 1 goal... when was the last time the flyers scored with less than a minute and having 6 guys on the ice? it seems to happen against us, but never for us...

we all know the flyers won't make any changes and will just play this season out like we usually do anymore... the offseason should be interesting depending on the way the season ends for this team and we all know it won't be ending with the cup...

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Old
02-07-2010, 01:25 PM
  #78
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i still think briere and carter need to be separated, brieres talent is going to waste on that line.

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02-07-2010, 02:05 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I posted this in the GDT, so I'll repost here.



As much as we've struggled (and they need to start converting on rebounds), these 2 runs have simply been extraordinary bad luck.

i agree with this wholeheartedly. i watch hockey since i work at nights to kill time, and while its a ****** phantom of an explanation, it appears to be the case. i watch a lot of teams get easy goals and think..."why don't goalies do that against us?" i've watched a lot of games where if the any of the teams were getting the chances the flyers produce, and have stopped, they would have 5 goals. other teams dont have to get all their goals off rebounds. other teams manage to just rip shots on goal and have them go in.

we generated more than enough chances last night, and its insane none of them went in. it went beyond an inability to finish, almost to the realm of being cursed.

while i think something needs to be done, preferably with hartnell, i cant think of anything thats truly gonna make a difference. we arent gonna get someone like ovechkin, and thats what we'd need. otherwise i bet this just continues.

i dont want to see holmgren give up any more picks either, so, ****.

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02-07-2010, 02:19 PM
  #80
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I have a theory for this season....some pens fan just converted to voodooism and cursed the hell out of the Flyers.

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02-07-2010, 02:27 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
We have a starter. His name is Emery. It's not his fault our backup right now is Michael ****ing Leighton.
Cool story. If you read my post it said "starting caliber goal tending on a consistent basis". And if you know what you're looking at, then you know that they haven't gotten that. They have scored enough to do with out it on some nights, have played good enough D that they didn't need it on others, and they have gotten better than average play from Emery on some nights as well...but they haven't gotten consistent, starter caliber goal tending this season.

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02-07-2010, 02:38 PM
  #82
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I've got a friend who has been saying this for a long time. It's been true the entire duration of him saying it. As far as the locker room goes, I think this is the problem too...not necessarily that something is sour and chunky like real old milk.
My dad always said that as well. And it holds true. As much as hockey is a team game, you also need those guys who are willing to carry the team on their back and that it's those kinds of players the rest of the team will follow. Look at players like Semin and Ovechkin, Kopitar and Brown, Stamkos and St.Louis, Staal is doing it alone in Carolina. But everyone of those guys listed have carried their teams on their backs at one point or another. Carter and Richards have had the luxury of being surrounded by good players. Well, now is the time for them to step up and carry this team. They want to be the cornerstones of the franchise - time to stand up and deliver and carry this team through these times. No more excuses, no more "well, we're playing well as team but...." type of answers. This is their team. Stand up and deliver.

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Old
02-07-2010, 02:45 PM
  #83
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The Flyers don't have enough skill. Its that simple. Richards is a very good player, but lets face it, hes not an elite offensive talent. Carter is far to inconsistent and one dimensional to ever be a true threat. Hartnell is a brick head, and thats putting it nicely. Briere's injuries have essentially made him a has been. Gagne just doesn't seem to have the hands anymore, sure hes getting his "chances", but he bobbles and fans on half of those "chances".

JVR and Giroux are the only two weapons we have and they're not mature enough to lean on. This season is on Richie, Carter, Hartnell, Briere, and Gagne, and frankly they're just not good enough to get it done.

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Old
02-07-2010, 04:24 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Cool story. If you read my post it said "starting caliber goal tending on a consistent basis". And if you know what you're looking at, then you know that they haven't gotten that. They have scored enough to do with out it on some nights, have played good enough D that they didn't need it on others, and they have gotten better than average play from Emery on some nights as well...but they haven't gotten consistent, starter caliber goal tending this season.
Still not sure how Emery doesn't provide that. With the exceptions of his injuries and the time when he played injured, Emery has provided that.

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02-07-2010, 04:37 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Still not sure how Emery doesn't provide that. With the exceptions of his injuries and the time when he played injured, Emery has provided that.
Emery, when healthy, has been solid enough.

The problem is that he's seldom been healthy. Part of consistent starting goaltending is the ability to consistently start.

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02-07-2010, 04:41 PM
  #86
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Honestly, our inability to score comes from our predictability.

Richards refuses to utilize the prime scoring area and skates himself into coverage. When he doesn't skate into coverage on the boards, he tries to force a pass through two defenseman, instead of ripping a shot on net.

Carter/JVR take to long to get shots on goal, and as a result, the goalie either has time to get into position and make a easy save, or the shot is fired high and wide.

Hartnell has had an inability to locate the puck all season long. I can't count how many times the puck goes left and he goes right. He hardly ever gets a piece of anything around the net, an area with his size, he should be able to cause more of a disturbance, in a good way. Additionally, his balance has looked off all season, the guy seems to be twisting and turning in ways you would expect a Cote type player to be playing.

Timonen refuses to puck the puck on the net from the point at the rate it almost make it easy on forwards/penalty killers. When he does decide to pass, he shoots for the boards, hoping the puck will bonce out in front.

Briere has been ineffective all season long because he isn't playing his game. He is play slow and deliberate, instead of using his speed and creativity to create room for himself and those on his lines. Most of his goals, in my recollection, are those that Hartnell should be scoring. Additionally, Briere is on his ass so much, and there is no way you can be doing snow angels and remain a dominate player.

The way this team plays needs to change soon, you can take 100 shots on goal, every game, but if the opposing goalie can see those shot and the defenseman can clear the rebounds, you are not going to score any goals.

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Old
02-07-2010, 04:43 PM
  #87
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Emery, when healthy, has been solid enough.

The problem is that he's seldom been healthy. Part of consistent starting goaltending is the ability to consistently start.
Really the only major injury so far was around that time that he played hurt and whoever forced him to play hurt was an idiot for doing so. Outside of that he's been relatively healthy. Right now all there is is some vague reports of soreness.

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Old
02-07-2010, 05:01 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
Bill Meltzer weighs in (nothing new - this team lives and dies on special teams, and has for a long time now). The stats are a bit startling though:
Every team lives and dies by special teams; the Flyers are no different.

The Penguins are 26th in the league on the powerplay. (I picked them 'cause they're a top team with a terrible powerplay)

When they score a powerplay goal, they're 24-2-1, including the OT loss today against Washington. When they don't score a powerplay goal, they're 11-20-1. (I did a quick tally, so it might not be 100% accurate, but it still shows that even teams with poor special teams rely on them for wins)

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02-07-2010, 05:02 PM
  #89
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Both rosters are the pacings for each player under the assumption that all players played 82 games and produced at a stagnant rate through that time period. For 2008-09 I used players on our postseason team.

2008-09
Jeff Carter: 46 G - 38 A - 84 P
Mike Richards: 31 G - 52 A - 83 P
Simon Gagne: 35 G - 42 A - 77 P
Danny Briere: 31 G - 40 A - 71 P
Scott Hartnell: 30 G - 30 A - 60 P
Claude Giroux: 18 G - 35 A - 53 P
Joffrey Lupul: 26 G - 26 A - 52 P
Mike Knuble: 27 G - 20 A - 47 P
Kimmo Timonen: 3 G - 43 A - 46 P
Matt Carle: 5 G - 26 A - 31 P
Braydon Coburn: 7 G - 22 A - 29 P
Arron Asham: 8 G - 13 A - 21 P
Dan Carcillo: 0 G - 16 A - 16 P
Darroll Powe: 8 G - 7 A - 15 P
Randy Jones: 7 G - 7 A - 14 P
Andrew Alberts: 1 G - 12 A - 13 P
Ryan Parent: 0 G - 11 A - 11 P
Jared Ross: 0 G - 0 A - 0 P
Totals: 275 G - 440 A - 715 P

2009-10
Jeff Carter: 32 G - 37 A - 69 P
Mike Richards: 32 G - 32 A - 64 P
Simon Gagne: 15 G - 44 A - 59 P
Danny Briere: 30 G - 28 A - 58 P
Chris Pronger: 12 G - 44 A - 56 P
James vanRiemsdyk: 19 G - 29 A - 48 P
Claude Giroux: 18 G - 29 A - 47 P
Scott Hartnell: 18 G - 25 A - 43 P
Kimmo Timonen: 6 G - 35 A - 41 P
Matt Carle: 4 G - 31 A - 35 P
Arron Asham: 10 G - 20 A - 30 P
Darroll Powe: 16 G - 8 A - 24 P
Dan Carcillo: 13 G - 9 A - 22 P
Blair Betts: 13 G - 9 A - 22 P
Braydon Coburn: 5 G - 15 A - 20 P
Ian Laperriere: 4 G - 16 A - 20 P
Oscars Bartulis: 0 G - 14 A - 14 P
Ryan Parent: 0 G - 6 A - 6 P
Totals: 247 G - 431 A - 678 P

Differences
Goals: -28
Assists: -9
Points: -37

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Old
02-07-2010, 05:16 PM
  #90
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Gagne's stats from this year to last sticks out to me.

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02-07-2010, 06:52 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Gagne's stats from this year to last sticks out to me.
What's even more concerning is Gagne's attitude about not scoring. You'd figure that a guy who is a two time 40 goal scorer and a two time 30 goal scorer would be upset that he's not scoring. On the contrary. Gagne's response in an article a few days ago ( http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...rs__Gagne.html ) "It's not the first time I'm going through something like this," he said, "but we're winning and that's what's most important." Come on, anyone who is any kind of competitor is pist off if they aren't contributing. No wonder why the guy isn't a leader. It's reasons like this that he needs to go. He's being paid 5 million bucks to score. Time to start acting like a scorer and putting the puck in the net. It's also time to start getting angry because you're not scoring and not contributing to the team.

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02-07-2010, 06:56 PM
  #92
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When I was at a practice two weeks ago, Gagne was the last guy on the ice working with an assistant coach on his shots, mostly one timers. I think he wants to score.

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02-07-2010, 07:02 PM
  #93
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i know this will probably sound dumb, but it's an observation that a buddy of mine and i saw during a game the flyers lost by 1 goal... when was the last time the flyers scored with less than a minute and having 6 guys on the ice? it seems to happen against us, but never for us...
I just talk to my buddy about this also...it never happens if we are down by one goal and there is a few minutes left we never seem to tie it up and go into over time and win. The only time I can recall this happening this season was the home opener against the Caps. I know this is kinda off topic in a way but its just annoying me that we cant come back and win.

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02-07-2010, 07:16 PM
  #94
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How about these forward lines?

JVR/Richards/Briere
Hartnell/Carter/Powe
Gagne/Giroux/Asham
Carcillo/Betts/Lappy

Jvr and Briere are some of the better puck handlers on this team so maybe they could take some of the offensive pressure off of Richards because he is clearly trying to do way too much with the puck.

Carter likes to shot the puck so who better than to just leave Hartnell and Powe with him to try and cause havoc around the goalie and put in the rebounds.

Giroux and Asham have some great chemistry together so maybe putting Gagne with those two will get him going a bit.

Carcillo Betts and Lappy just rock together so no reason to split them up.


Sorry if these same lines has been posted somewhere else! I just think these would be some good line changes to try out.

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02-07-2010, 07:57 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
How about these forward lines?

JVR/Richards/Briere
Hartnell/Carter/Powe
Gagne/Giroux/Asham
Carcillo/Betts/Lappy

Jvr and Briere are some of the better puck handlers on this team so maybe they could take some of the offensive pressure off of Richards because he is clearly trying to do way too much with the puck.

Carter likes to shot the puck so who better than to just leave Hartnell and Powe with him to try and cause havoc around the goalie and put in the rebounds.

Giroux and Asham have some great chemistry together so maybe putting Gagne with those two will get him going a bit.

Carcillo Betts and Lappy just rock together so no reason to split them up.


Sorry if these same lines has been posted somewhere else! I just think these would be some good line changes to try out.
Worth trying out, but that Carter line makes me feel sad for Carter. he gets stuck with a lump of crap in Hartnell and a useful bottom six guy in Powe.

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02-07-2010, 08:02 PM
  #96
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Mods, do we really need a thread insulting Irish?
son of a .....

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02-07-2010, 08:53 PM
  #97
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
What's even more concerning is Gagne's attitude about not scoring. You'd figure that a guy who is a two time 40 goal scorer and a two time 30 goal scorer would be upset that he's not scoring. On the contrary. Gagne's response in an article a few days ago ( http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...rs__Gagne.html ) "It's not the first time I'm going through something like this," he said, "but we're winning and that's what's most important." Come on, anyone who is any kind of competitor is pist off if they aren't contributing. No wonder why the guy isn't a leader. It's reasons like this that he needs to go. He's being paid 5 million bucks to score. Time to start acting like a scorer and putting the puck in the net. It's also time to start getting angry because you're not scoring and not contributing to the team.
What do you want the guy to say? His response was typical and branded on the side with "Made with 100% recycled professional athlete ********."

He's also most definitely another guy who isn't getting paid to simply score. It absolutely is his primary job, but there's very few guys in this league getting paid that much money to simply put pucks in the net.

I don't like that he's not scoring, but to act like he doesn't care is to treat him like some new guy who A) doesn't know what's going on with him and B) hasn't been a Flyer his whole career and is completely aloof to the environment and expectations.

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02-07-2010, 08:54 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Worth trying out, but that Carter line makes me feel sad for Carter. he gets stuck with a lump of crap in Hartnell and a useful bottom six guy in Powe.
Carter excels when he's the best player on his line. He always has.

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02-07-2010, 09:28 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Worth trying out, but that Carter line makes me feel sad for Carter. he gets stuck with a lump of crap in Hartnell and a useful bottom six guy in Powe.
Carter hogs the puck anyway.

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02-07-2010, 10:37 PM
  #100
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What do you want the guy to say? His response was typical and branded on the side with "Made with 100% recycled professional athlete ********."
It certainly wouldn't hurt to say something like "while the team is having success, I would also like to help contribute more to the team's success." Or maybe "it's frustrating and I'm upset that I'm not scoring, even though the team is playing well. Sometimes, it feels like I'm not pulling my weight around here even though I'm getting opportunities." Something that shows he even remotely cares. His statement is a very non chalant or laisse faire attitude like "oh well, things will happen when they do."

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He's also most definitely another guy who isn't getting paid to simply score. It absolutely is his primary job, but there's very few guys in this league getting paid that much money to simply put pucks in the net.
So, if he's not scoring, he's basically a 5 million dollar checker. Are you trying to say that the Flyers brass are saying "well Simon, it's ok you aren't scoring goals. As long as you're contributing defensively, that 5 million dollars a year you're making is money well spent"? If you're being paid anything over 4 million bucks a year, it's because your team is expecting you to be an integral part of the offense. Gagne's role in the offense is that of a goal scorer. He's not scoring goals and at 5 million bucks, that's a major problem.

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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
I don't like that he's not scoring, but to act like he doesn't care is to treat him like some new guy who A) doesn't know what's going on with him and B) hasn't been a Flyer his whole career and is completely aloof to the environment and expectations.
His words say it all. "It's not the first time I'm going through something like this." The fact that he's gone through something like this and he's learned nothing from it says it all about his competitiveness. "Maybe a dirty goal or a lucky goal will get the confidence going." Are you kidding me? Instead of talking about it, it's time to start doing it. However, it's hard to score a dirty goal when you're primarily a perimeter player.

He shrugs off his slump like it's nothing. This is a team that's fighting for it's playoff life and one of the "leaders" on the team has a "meh" reaction to his slump. I used to be one of the biggest Gagne supporters on here and always felt that Hitch threw him under a bus. However, with this type of attitude, maybe there was something that Hitch new about Gagne that others didn't know. Maybe Hitch sensed that Gagne just didn't care and if he didn't care, he wasn't going to be rewarded. After all, wasn't it both Clarke and Hitch who called out Gagne for his poor playoff performances?

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