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Old
02-07-2010, 07:36 PM
  #26
Anthony Mauro
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Stajcer in the top 10? Don't really agree with that. I like him as a prospect, but he's still a project right now.
He's a prospect. They're all projects.

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02-07-2010, 08:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Don Waddell wanted one of the Rangers top 3 and their #1 pick in June plus either Staal or MDZ and Dubinsky or Callahan for a rental

Staal or MDZ
Dubinsky or Callahan
Kreider or Grachev or Stepan
1st round pick(10)

for Kovalchuk
I am so glad Sather showed some restraint. **** you Waddell, what a massive overpayment that would've been. We have no use for Kovalchuk NOW. If we really want him, let's wait until July 1st and sign him then, and keep our TOP prospects. We're not going anywhere this year.

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02-07-2010, 08:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by NYR Fan in PGH View Post
I am so glad Sather showed some restraint. **** you Waddell, what a massive overpayment that would've been. We have no use for Kovalchuk NOW. If we really want him, let's wait until July 1st and sign him then, and keep our TOP prospects. We're not going anywhere this year.
Yeah I would not have given up that much even if we had Kov signed prior to the trade.

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02-07-2010, 08:49 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Chad Johnson should in no way shape or form be ahead of Ethan Werek.

Ethan Werek is a legit future top 6 NHL forward.

Chad Johnson will never be a starting goaltender.

Stepan
Grachev
Sanguinetti
McDonagh
Kreider
Werek
Sauer
Hagelin
Kovalenko
Doyle/Kveton
Moronic statement.

Equally moronic is having Doyle or Kveton over Johnson. I would not have Hagelin over him, either. Johnson has at least proven himself in the pros right now.

And "Kovalenko".

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Old
02-07-2010, 08:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
He's a prospect. They're all projects.
You know damn well what I mean, MB. He's not nearly as "pro-ready" as some of the kids we have are and is still extremely raw in comparison. I like him a lot and he has a lot of potential, but he's a big project right now.

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02-07-2010, 09:04 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Moronic statement.
To be fair, I think Johnson will top out at a mediocre backup... so he's not really alone in that one.

I thought the scouts pick these lists with the editors and the beat writers just report on it...

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02-07-2010, 09:17 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
To be fair, I think Johnson will top out at a mediocre backup... so he's not really alone in that one.

I thought the scouts pick these lists with the editors and the beat writers just report on it...
It's beyond stupid to say he will never be a starter. Sorry, just the way it is. I watched the kid play in college. He has potential to be a starting goaltender in the NHL. It's more likely that he's going to be a back-up, but to say he will never be a starter is just idiotic.

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02-07-2010, 09:21 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It's beyond stupid to say he will never be a starter. Sorry, just the way it is. I watched the kid play in college. He has potential to be a starting goaltender in the NHL. It's more likely that he's going to be a back-up, but to say he will never be a starter is just idiotic.
Exactly, I think Johnson will be a huge goalie in the future, he played solid so far with us. In 2 years he will be a starter for a team.

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02-07-2010, 09:24 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It's beyond stupid to say he will never be a starter. Sorry, just the way it is. I watched the kid play in college. He has potential to be a starting goaltender in the NHL. It's more likely that he's going to be a back-up, but to say he will never be a starter is just idiotic.
And I've watched the kid play in the NHL (on TV and in person) and think his reactions are barely quick enough and sometimes too slow. His ability to read the play when it's behind the net at the NHL level is terrible.

It's a small sample size, and there was certainly a time that certain players don't really look like NHL players in their first stint in the league, but I've been thoroughly underwhelmed and decent backups aren't all that expensive or hard to come by in the off-season to begin with.

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02-07-2010, 09:29 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
And I've watched the kid play in the NHL (on TV and in person) and think his reactions are barely quick enough and sometimes too slow. His ability to read the play when it's behind the net at the NHL level is terrible.

It's a small sample size, and there was certainly a time that certain players don't really look like NHL players in their first stint in the league, but I've been thoroughly underwhelmed and decent backups aren't all that expensive or hard to come by in the off-season to begin with.
He's a first year player. I've watched him play well over 30 times so far over the course of his career. He has a lot of potential and is now with a great goalie coach. You can think he probably won't be a starter, but to say with 100% certainty is beyond retarded. End of story.

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02-07-2010, 09:38 PM
  #36
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I think Ocho will be a solid NHL Backup goalie, and possibly a mediocre starting one. He stays very square, is very economical in his movements, and doesnt appear to have any glaring holes in his game.

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02-07-2010, 09:39 PM
  #37
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Johnson is in the NHL right now. That alone is a bonus.

I'm not saying he's "proven" yet, but he has come a lot further than a lot of Ranger prospects will.

Stajcer is the only pick i'm not a huge fan of. I'd have Hagelin over him.

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02-07-2010, 09:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I think Ocho will be a solid NHL Backup goalie, and possibly a mediocre starting one. He stays very square, is very economical in his movements, and doesnt appear to have any glaring holes in his game.
That's what I see with him. Most likely a very good back-up, but potential to be a decent starting goalie.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:08 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Are you ****ing kidding? Waddell is a moron. Staal and MDZ are waaaayyy better then Bergfors, Dubinsky pretty even with Oduya, Kreider/Grachev/Stepan are 10 times more valuable then Cormier and our 1st round pick most likely will be more valuable then the devils.
Waddell may be a moron, but not when he asks for so much. Teams have the right to say no. They also have the right to make a counter offer. I'm sure he asked the Devils for much more and compromised with the offer he eventually took. That's how deals get made.

I was once told by a WHA GM that every organization spends a great deal of time rating their own players. For example, the Rangers have all of their NHL defensemen and defensive prospects ranked internally. You will hear Gordie Clark or Jim Schoenfeld talk up a player but they will never say so and so is ahead of what's his name in our eyes. That's classified. My GM friend (who is now deceased) told me that once a team sours on their own players, that's when they get moved. The trick is to make the deal before everyone else finds out what you know. Knowing your own players is a big competitive advantage. And it also accounts for why a deal sometimes gets made where a new GM gets a player(s) from their old team that they know well.

Waddell ended up with a similar return as he got for Hossa; a useful player (Oduya/Armstrong) a younger player who may/may not work out (Christensen/Bergfors), a prospect (Esposito/Cormier) and a late 1st. The Kovalchuk return was a little better because of Bergfors. Unfortunately, for Atlanta, it's not a lot.

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02-07-2010, 10:26 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
And I've watched the kid play in the NHL (on TV and in person) and think his reactions are barely quick enough and sometimes too slow. His ability to read the play when it's behind the net at the NHL level is terrible.

It's a small sample size, and there was certainly a time that certain players don't really look like NHL players in their first stint in the league, but I've been thoroughly underwhelmed and decent backups aren't all that expensive or hard to come by in the off-season to begin with.
may I ask...with all due respect of course...what qualifies you to make that assessment?

especially considering that Ocho during his first start and Ocho against the Avs the other night where two completely different goalies...

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02-07-2010, 10:39 PM
  #41
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may I ask...with all due respect of course...what qualifies you to make that assessment?

especially considering that Ocho during his first start and Ocho against the Avs the other night where two completely different goalies...
The same thing that qualifies you. Seriously, "with all due respect," what kind of question is that?

The "Ocho" against the Avs wasn't even the same "Ocho" that was against the Coyotes... or against the Blues... or against the Flyers... and the Avs game was the first time I actually felt even slightly comfortable with him in goal.

By the way, Jonathan, you're implication in saying things like "it's more likely he will be a backup" is that there's a 100% chance that he's going to be a career NHL goalie. That would be just as "moronic" as me stating that he will never be a starter (which I never did).

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Old
02-08-2010, 06:40 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Waddell may be a moron, but not when he asks for so much. Teams have the right to say no. They also have the right to make a counter offer. I'm sure he asked the Devils for much more and compromised with the offer he eventually took. That's how deals get made.

I was once told by a WHA GM that every organization spends a great deal of time rating their own players. For example, the Rangers have all of their NHL defensemen and defensive prospects ranked internally. You will hear Gordie Clark or Jim Schoenfeld talk up a player but they will never say so and so is ahead of what's his name in our eyes. That's classified. My GM friend (who is now deceased) told me that once a team sours on their own players, that's when they get moved. The trick is to make the deal before everyone else finds out what you know. Knowing your own players is a big competitive advantage. And it also accounts for why a deal sometimes gets made where a new GM gets a player(s) from their old team that they know well.

Waddell ended up with a similar return as he got for Hossa; a useful player (Oduya/Armstrong) a younger player who may/may not work out (Christensen/Bergfors), a prospect (Esposito/Cormier) and a late 1st. The Kovalchuk return was a little better because of Bergfors. Unfortunately, for Atlanta, it's not a lot.
Waddell asked the Blues for Oshie. He asked the Flyers for Giroux or JVR. He asked the Bruins for Krejci or Rask. Waddell wanted the Leafs #1 pick from Boston. Waddell wanted Wayne Simmonds and Jack Johnson from LA. Did he go back to those teams after they refused to fork over their best young players for a rental before making the trade?Did he lower his demands or did he just take the Jersey offer?Waddell went from not listening to offers to trading the player within a few weeks. Maybe if Waddell lowered his demands to those other teams,he would have gotten more than a #4/#5 defenseman,3rd line winger,a prospect suspended for the entire season and a late 1st round pick. He seemed very rushed and panicky.Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet reported early last week that Waddell was sitting on an offer for Kovalchuk and it turned out to be Jersey. Lou told Waddell this is the offer and if you don't make the trade now then the offer won't be available for very long.

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02-08-2010, 06:48 AM
  #43
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The Rangers did a good job trading for Chad Johnson. 5th round pick acquired for Ryan Hollweg from Toronto which Pittsburgh sent to Toronto for Hal Gill. Pittsburgh wasn't signing Johnson so they were going to lose him as a free agent so they re-acquired their pick for Johnson. The Rangers could have waited until August 15 to sign Johnson but they would have competed against other teams for his services. Johnson could have waited until August 15 to sign a NHL contract as a free agent but he decided to sign with the Rangers.

Still would like to see the Rangers sign Johan Hedberg as their back-up to Henrik next season. Hedberg's favorite team growing up was the Rangers. 1 year contract for Hedberg. Leave Ocho Cinco in HFD next season.

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02-08-2010, 06:50 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Waddell asked the Blues for Oshie. He asked the Flyers for Giroux or JVR. He asked the Bruins for Krejci or Rask. Waddell wanted the Leafs #1 pick from Boston. Waddell wanted Wayne Simmonds and Jack Johnson from LA. Did he go back to those teams after they refused to fork over their best young players for a rental before making the trade?Did he lower his demands or did he just take the Jersey offer?Waddell went from not listening to offers to trading the player within a few weeks. Maybe if Waddell lowered his demands to those other teams,he would have gotten more than a #4/#5 defenseman,3rd line winger,a prospect suspended for the entire season and a late 1st round pick. He seemed very rushed and panicky.Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet reported early last week that Waddell was sitting on an offer for Kovalchuk and it turned out to be Jersey. Lou told Waddell this is the offer and if you don't make the trade now then the offer won't be available for very long.
I bet a lot of money that Waddell did not offer/say what he says he did to Kovalchuk and wanted to rush trade him so it didn't leak out in that time.

There is no logical explanation for trading a guy of Kovalchuk's caliber 4 weeks before the trade deadline. He waited for Hossa. And he didn't want teams to "negotiate" with IK? Did he fear that teams might actually pay him what he wanted in effect making him look bad?

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02-08-2010, 09:22 AM
  #45
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Chad Johnson seems like a fine backup for this season. Valiquette is a disaster, not sure what happened to that guy.

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02-08-2010, 09:31 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
And I've watched the kid play in the NHL (on TV and in person) and think his reactions are barely quick enough and sometimes too slow. His ability to read the play when it's behind the net at the NHL level is terrible.

It's a small sample size, and there was certainly a time that certain players don't really look like NHL players in their first stint in the league, but I've been thoroughly underwhelmed and decent backups aren't all that expensive or hard to come by in the off-season to begin with.
wow. i mean seriously wow

his reactions are a bit slow because he just went from playing in college a few months ago to the nhl. that goes for EVERYBODY that makes that leap. you couldn't be more wrong about this if you tried. the kid has great size, very smooth laterally, plays big, great glove hand, a calming effect, and tracks pucks very well. he's got to work on speed and rebound control like any other goaltending prospect. i'm VERY impressed with him i like him alot. take this from a guy that's played in the net at a pretty high level and knows a thing or two about goaltending. the kid is good. he's not lundqvist good but imo he could be a starter in this league. most likely a really good backup but he's got what you want in a goaltender.

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Old
02-08-2010, 10:16 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Waddell asked the Blues for Oshie. He asked the Flyers for Giroux or JVR. He asked the Bruins for Krejci or Rask. Waddell wanted the Leafs #1 pick from Boston. Waddell wanted Wayne Simmonds and Jack Johnson from LA. Did he go back to those teams after they refused to fork over their best young players for a rental before making the trade?Did he lower his demands or did he just take the Jersey offer?Waddell went from not listening to offers to trading the player within a few weeks. Maybe if Waddell lowered his demands to those other teams,he would have gotten more than a #4/#5 defenseman,3rd line winger,a prospect suspended for the entire season and a late 1st round pick. He seemed very rushed and panicky.Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet reported early last week that Waddell was sitting on an offer for Kovalchuk and it turned out to be Jersey. Lou told Waddell this is the offer and if you don't make the trade now then the offer won't be available for very long.
Sounds like you are asssuming that if he asked for one package and didn't get what he asked for, then the other team did not counter. I can't believe that happened. You ask for a player get told no but then get told here's what we can offer. I agree, he did seem rushed and I agree he could have gotten a better deal if he waited until after the Olympics but I suspect his bosses told him to move the salary off the books sooner rather than later. The only way he has lasted this long is that he kisses up pretty good because his performance is simply not there. Remember, teams were calling him long before he started making calls.

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02-08-2010, 10:21 AM
  #48
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how far away is mcdonagh from playing in the nhl?

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02-08-2010, 10:35 AM
  #49
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I would like McD to play at least half a season in Hart and probably a full season.

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02-08-2010, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Waddell asked the Blues for Oshie. He asked the Flyers for Giroux or JVR. He asked the Bruins for Krejci or Rask. Waddell wanted the Leafs #1 pick from Boston. Waddell wanted Wayne Simmonds and Jack Johnson from LA. Did he go back to those teams after they refused to fork over their best young players for a rental before making the trade?Did he lower his demands or did he just take the Jersey offer?Waddell went from not listening to offers to trading the player within a few weeks. Maybe if Waddell lowered his demands to those other teams,he would have gotten more than a #4/#5 defenseman,3rd line winger,a prospect suspended for the entire season and a late 1st round pick. He seemed very rushed and panicky.Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet reported early last week that Waddell was sitting on an offer for Kovalchuk and it turned out to be Jersey. Lou told Waddell this is the offer and if you don't make the trade now then the offer won't be available for very long.
In the end Waddell should have aloud kovy to negotiate a deal with the team he was going to...he could have had any of thos players on that list if he did...instead of bergfors it could have been Zajac or instead of Cormier it could have been Tendeby ect ect

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