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Kovy or marleau and volchencov

View Poll Results: Kovy or Marleau and Volchenkov
Kovy 78 70.91%
Marleau and Volchenkov 32 29.09%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-08-2010, 09:50 AM
  #76
Vito Andolini
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We all rightfully crucify Sather, but when is the fan base going to get it through their thick skulls? You can't build a teams core through free agency! It didn't work pre-lockout when we had a huge spending advantage over other teams, and it definitely won't work now. Hey, just take a look around. Of ALL the best teams in the league, which of them has built their teams through free agency? Pitt? No. Washington? No. Devils? No. Chicago? No. San Jose? No.

You guys make me laugh. You've seen firsthand how spending all your money on high priced free agents cripples the team from an identity standpoint and a payroll standpoint, and yet, here we go again; doing whatever we can to clear up payroll from our previous UFA mistakes just to go out and make some new ones.

Kovalchuk is not the right answer. He's too expensive. This team has too many holes and too much money tied up in marginal players to spend it all on a 1 trick pony kind of player. He's a good goal scorer, but not much else. We are NOT 1 goal scorer away from being a contender.

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02-08-2010, 09:55 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
We all rightfully crucify Sather, but when is the fan base going to get it through their thick skulls? You can't build a teams core through free agency! It didn't work pre-lockout when we had a huge spending advantage over other teams, and it definitely won't work now. Hey, just take a look around. Of ALL the best teams in the league, which of them has built their teams through free agency? Pitt? No. Washington? No. Devils? No. Chicago? No. San Jose? No.

You guys make me laugh. You've seen firsthand how spending all your money on high priced free agents cripples the team from an identity standpoint and a payroll standpoint, and yet, here we go again; doing whatever we can to clear up payroll from our previous UFA mistakes just to go out and make some new ones.

Kovalchuk is not the right answer. He's too expensive. This team has too many holes and too much money tied up in marginal players to spend it all on a 1 trick pony kind of player. He's a good goal scorer, but not much else. We are NOT 1 goal scorer away from being a contender.
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Old
02-08-2010, 10:09 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
We all rightfully crucify Sather, but when is the fan base going to get it through their thick skulls? You can't build a teams core through free agency! It didn't work pre-lockout when we had a huge spending advantage over other teams, and it definitely won't work now. Hey, just take a look around. Of ALL the best teams in the league, which of them has built their teams through free agency? Pitt? No. Washington? No. Devils? No. Chicago? No. San Jose? No.

You guys make me laugh. You've seen firsthand how spending all your money on high priced free agents cripples the team from an identity standpoint and a payroll standpoint, and yet, here we go again; doing whatever we can to clear up payroll from our previous UFA mistakes just to go out and make some new ones.

Kovalchuk is not the right answer. He's too expensive. This team has too many holes and too much money tied up in marginal players to spend it all on a 1 trick pony kind of player. He's a good goal scorer, but not much else. We are NOT 1 goal scorer away from being a contender.
This team needs to build its dynamic offensive players through free agency, hopefully behind Gaborik and Kovalchuk.

If you want to watch good prospects like Grachev/Stepan/Krieder try and fail to legitimately carry the Rangers offensively, then be my guest. Me? Id like to slot them into the lineup with 2 of the best goal scorers in the game already in the lineup to ease the burden.


Im usually on board with the whole "dont build through free agency" sentiment in certain offseasons. We **** the bed bad in 2007 and 2008 when the wrong free agents were available and we signed them anyway.

Gaborik, and now Kovalchuk, are two legitmately elite talents still a few years from 30. Those are the types of free agents you jump at.

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02-08-2010, 10:21 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I think Gaborik is a slightly better player FWIW, because he does play in all situations, and in all 3 zones, but Kovalchuk is one of the best pure snipers in the game today, anyone who wouldn't want him on this team is just....well....beyond words.
I have to disagree here, though I do see your point. I like how Gaborik is capable in the defensive zone, but I dont think hes a constant factor on the game like Kovalchuk.

Gaborik has two main attributes that make him a great player. His speed, and his quick release. He can be quiet for half the game and all of a sudden dart in to pot one. Kovalchuk has these attributes too, and in addition to them hes much stronger and probably a better puck handler. I just feel like hes more of a constant force on the game, and the slightly better player.

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02-08-2010, 10:25 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This team needs to build its dynamic offensive players through free agency, hopefully behind Gaborik and Kovalchuk.

If you want to watch good prospects like Grachev/Stepan/Krieder try and fail to legitimately carry the Rangers offensively, then be my guest. Me? Id like to slot them into the lineup with 2 of the best goal scorers in the game already in the lineup to ease the burden.


Im usually on board with the whole "dont build through free agency" sentiment in certain offseasons. We **** the bed bad in 2007 and 2008 when the wrong free agents were available and we signed them anyway.

Gaborik, and now Kovalchuk, are two legitmately elite talents still a few years from 30. Those are the types of free agents you jump at.
In my opinion, Drury's contract prevents us from going the Kovalchuk route. In order to clear enough cap-space to afford Kovalchuk, we'll need to get rid of Redden and Rozsival.

Once we do that, sure we could sign Kovalchuk, but there will be so many other holes on the team that need to be filled, and not enough money to do it.

And next off-season, we have three RFA in Callahan, Dubinsky, and Anisimov. No way we can retain them all if we're at the cap ceiling again because the only two contracts coming off the books are Gilroy and Brashear.

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02-08-2010, 10:30 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Give Kovalchuk 12 years 114 Mil (frontloaded)
Prospal - Christensen - Gaborik
Kovalchuk - Dubinsky - Callahan
Avery - Anisimov - Lisin
Drury - Boyle - Prust
Byers

Staal - Girardi
Volchenkov- Sauer/Sanguinetti
MDZ - Gilroy

Lundqvist
Ocho Cinco

* Ilya Kovalchuk ($9.500m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m)
Ryan Callahan ($2.300m) / Sean Avery ($1.938m) / Brandon Dubinsky ($1.850m)
* Vaclav Prospal ($1.750m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.822m) / * Enver Lisin ($0.800m)
* Erik Christensen ($0.800m) / * Brandon Prust ($0.650m) / * Dane Byers ($0.650m)
Brian Boyle ($0.525m)
DEFENSEMEN
* Anton Volchenkov ($4.000m) / * Marc Staal ($2.750m)
* Daniel Girardi ($2.000m) / Matt Gilroy ($1.750m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / * Mike Sauer ($0.846m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Chad Johnson ($0.850m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $56.293m; CAP ROOM: $0.890m BONUSES: $0.383m
Girardi will get more than 2 mil as an arbitration eligibile RFA. Prospal will get more than 1.75 mil as an UFA.

On top of that, this all depends on getting rid of Redden, Rozy, Voros and Brashear while bringing no salary back.

If we somehow managed to pull all that off, what do we do in 2011 when Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Gilroy and Boyle will all be RFA? Which players will be UFA that we can replace for cheap to give our RFAs raises? We can buy out Drury, but that would only save us about 2.5 mil. The cap may go up a couple mil by then, but there are no guarantees.

What you are suggesting would be virtually impossible to pull off and extremely risky to boot.

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02-08-2010, 10:34 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Girardi will get more than 2 mil as an arbitration eligibile RFA. Prospal will get more than 1.75 mil as an UFA.

On top of that, this all depends on getting rid of Redden, Rozy, Voros and Brashear while bringing no salary back.

If we somehow managed to pull all that off, what do we do in 2011 when Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Gilroy and Boyle will all be RFA? Which players will be UFA that we can replace for cheap to give our RFAs raises? We can buy out Drury, but that would only save us about 2.5 mil. The cap may go up a couple mil by then, but there are no guarantees.

What you are suggesting would be virtually impossible to pull off and extremely risky to boot.
Yep.

Two chefs can't run a restaurant if the rest of the staff is made up of 8 year olds. Signing Kovalchuk does nothing besides make us more handcuffed in the future. You can't build a team properly if you're constantly looking to add guys making under $1.5 a season.

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02-08-2010, 10:36 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
In my opinion, Drury's contract prevents us from going the Kovalchuk route. In order to clear enough cap-space to afford Kovalchuk, we'll need to get rid of Redden and Rozsival.

Once we do that, sure we could sign Kovalchuk, but there will be so many other holes on the team that need to be filled, and not enough money to do it.

And next off-season, we have three RFA in Callahan, Dubinsky, and Anisimov. No way we can retain them all if we're at the cap ceiling again because the only two contracts coming off the books are Gilroy and Brashear.
If you sign Kovalchuk, the multiple holes we have on offense become almost non-existent. Kovalchuk is in the same mold as Gaborik that he doesnt need to play with legitimate top 6 players to produce. With Gaborik and Kovalchuk on the top 2 lines, guys like Callahan and Dubinsky become de-facto top 6 players, which is a hell of a lot better than paying a mediocre guy like Jokinen or Marleau 6-7 million dollars to "fill out" the top 6. I mean, Gaborik is producing with waiver wire trash on his line right now. Kovalchuk is even better.

And yes, ridding ourselves of Roszival and Redden is what would need to be done in order to clear the space. Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, and Gilroy is a young but not terrible top 4. I am going to miss Rozy and his 20 minutes a games...tough to replace, yes...worthy of losing to get Kovalchuk? also yes. Redden? We can sign a veteran for about 2 million to play the 12-14 minutes of uninspired hockey he does on a nightly basis. Thats addition by subtraction right there.

As for future RFA's? We have a nice pool of prospects coming up. When the time comes, management will have to make judgments on if those younger players can come up and fill certain roles. But Ill tell you one thing, I wouldnt be crying if we lost one of Callahan, Dubinsky, or Anisimov if it meant Kovalchuk and Gaborik were anchoring the top 2 lines.

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Old
02-08-2010, 10:50 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This team needs to build its dynamic offensive players through free agency, hopefully behind Gaborik and Kovalchuk.
This team CHOOSES to build it's offensive through free agency. The Gaborik signing wasn't too bad (from a $ point of view) because his injury history caused him to take less than his talent warrants, but Kovalchuk won't come cheap. He's got no reason to come here, aside from money. You want him, you're going to have to pay big time for him.


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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you want to watch good prospects like Grachev/Stepan/Krieder try and fail to legitimately carry the Rangers offensively, then be my guest. Me? Id like to slot them into the lineup with 2 of the best goal scorers in the game already in the lineup to ease the burden.
What would that failure lead to? A high draft pick with an excellent chance of carrying the offensive load at a relatively cheap price for a good amount of seasons? Sign me up.


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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im usually on board with the whole "dont build through free agency" sentiment in certain offseasons. We **** the bed bad in 2007 and 2008 when the wrong free agents were available and we signed them anyway.
We haven't paid our dues on those bad 07 & 08 signings yet. Compounding their cap hits with more big cap hits does nothing to address the overall problems with this team.


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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Gaborik, and now Kovalchuk, are two legitmately elite talents still a few years from 30. Those are the types of free agents you jump at.
There's a price to be paid here. Look at the lengths this team must go to open up the roster space to sign Kovalchuk. Then look at the rest of the roster. The team stinks even with Kovalchuk. He's not the difference maker here. We have holes on this team aside from another goal scorer. Especially when getting another goal scorer opens up more holes. For example, if getting Kovalchuk means Redden & Roszi have to go, then who fills their place? Are you comfortable with a team of 6 dmen under the age of 26? A team where Dan Girardi is the most physical players on the blue-line? A team where Eric Christensen is the number 1 center? Not me. I think that team still sucks.

Kovalchuk is not the answer to our problems.

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Old
02-08-2010, 10:57 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
This team CHOOSES to build it's offensive through free agency. The Gaborik signing wasn't too bad (from a $ point of view) because his injury history caused him to take less than his talent warrants, but Kovalchuk won't come cheap. He's got no reason to come here, aside from money. You want him, you're going to have to pay big time for him.




What would that failure lead to? A high draft pick with an excellent chance of carrying the offensive load at a relatively cheap price for a good amount of seasons? Sign me up.




We haven't paid our dues on those bad 07 & 08 signings yet. Compounding their cap hits with more big cap hits does nothing to address the overall problems with this team.




There's a price to be paid here. Look at the lengths this team must go to open up the roster space to sign Kovalchuk. Then look at the rest of the roster. The team stinks even with Kovalchuk. He's not the difference maker here. We have holes on this team aside from another goal scorer. Especially when getting another goal scorer opens up more holes. For example, if getting Kovalchuk means Redden & Roszi have to go, then who fills their place? Are you comfortable with a team of 6 dmen under the age of 26? A team where Dan Girardi is the most physical players on the blue-line? A team where Eric Christensen is the number 1 center? Not me. I think that team still sucks.

Kovalchuk is not the answer to our problems.
So whats your suggestion? Play the kids and hope you either strike gold or they suck so bad you get a good pick that MIGHT net us a cheap/young talent?

Im more inclined to go with the sure thing, especially considering we already have an elite goaltender and another elite forward on board. Tanking is not an option. I'd rather integrate the kid into the lineup with no pressure whatsoever.

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02-08-2010, 10:59 AM
  #86
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I'll take Marleau and aTrain....Improve two spots with the same $$$

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02-08-2010, 11:06 AM
  #87
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after the next year the rangers SHOULD buy out chris drury's 5 mil remaining contract. that clears like 6 million dollars from the cap alone. with that you can re-sign dubinsky,callahan,boyle and gilroy if you want too. prospal probably goes that year as well for a younger cheaper player. but no matter what next year should be chris drury's last year as a ranger. if you do everything inferno says there and buyout drury after after this next season your fine cap wise. big money on only 3 players, hank/gaborik/kovalchuk. i personally would not bring in volchenkov if i bring in kovalchuk. i think we've got good enough kids on the back end to build from within there. staal girardi gilroy mdz sanguinetti and mcdonagh should be the group for a while. i'd live and die with them with hank behind them and kovalchuk gaborik in front.

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02-08-2010, 11:09 AM
  #88
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Marleau is Drury 2.0 imo.

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02-08-2010, 11:10 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So whats your suggestion? Play the kids and hope you either strike gold or they suck so bad you get a good pick that MIGHT net us a cheap/young talent?

Im more inclined to go with the sure thing, especially considering we already have an elite goaltender and another elite forward on board. Tanking is not an option. I'd rather integrate the kid into the lineup with no pressure whatsoever.
I would waive Redden and Rozsival and look to fix our offensive woes by signing a couple of legit second liners or offer-sheeting a young RFA. The point is, signing Kovalchuk puts is back in cap hell and forces us to fill out the rest of the squad with marginal players. This isn't high school where you can roll 2 lines and expect to win.

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02-08-2010, 11:13 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So whats your suggestion? Play the kids and hope you either strike gold or they suck so bad you get a good pick that MIGHT net us a cheap/young talent?

Im more inclined to go with the sure thing, especially considering we already have an elite goaltender and another elite forward on board. Tanking is not an option. I'd rather integrate the kid into the lineup with no pressure whatsoever.
What's the sure thing? That you'll still suck, but you'll be spending to the cap? That's more of the same as far as I'm concerned.

I'd rather see this organization have an actual plan for a change. Not just go into every offseason with the 'throw it at the wall and see if it sticks' routine.

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02-08-2010, 11:17 AM
  #91
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I'd rather us continue to clear cap space and just rebuild.

This team has a ton of holes. I mean for God's sake, a guy who was on waivers this season is our Number 1 Center.

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02-08-2010, 11:19 AM
  #92
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I would waive Redden and Rozsival and look to fix our offensive woes by signing a couple of legit second liners or offer-sheeting a young RFA. The point is, signing Kovalchuk puts is back in cap hell and forces us to fill out the rest of the squad with marginal players. This isn't high school where you can roll 2 lines and expect to win.
I never said it was. What you can do is have 2 legit scoring lines for the first time in ages, no matter whose accompanying these great talents (hello Erik Christensen!, hello Rich Peverly in Atlanta!). You can then slot our younger players into more suitable roles because, lets face it, we have numerous 3rd/4th line grinder types on the system, a few players with top 6 potential, and a noticeable deficiency or any true bluechippers.

I just happen to think Gaborik and Kovalchuk on the top 2 lines for the next several years will create a trickle down element to the lineup that will actually wind up helping us immensely, especially when Drury comes off the books. If you think the organization should sign some stopgags while the prospects develop, thats fine, Im not knocking your opinion. I just think the organization would be wasting an extraordinary opportunity if they pass on a generational talent like this.

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02-08-2010, 11:21 AM
  #93
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What's the sure thing? That you'll still suck, but you'll be spending to the cap? That's more of the same as far as I'm concerned.

I'd rather see this organization have an actual plan for a change. Not just go into every offseason with the 'throw it at the wall and see if it sticks' routine.
See, Ive given up hope that the organization is somehow going to change its stripes after what we've seen for the last 15 years. In theory, clearing space and rebuilding seems like a wonderful longterm plan.....ain't gonna happen here though.

The Rangers are always going to spend their cap space, and if thats the case, they might as well spend it on a guy like Kovalchuk. He's actually worth it.

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02-08-2010, 03:24 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BayAreaRanger View Post
I'd rather us continue to clear cap space and just rebuild.

This team has a ton of holes. I mean for God's sake, a guy who was on waivers this season is our Number 1 Center.
Like the Metallica song, Sad but true.

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02-08-2010, 03:30 PM
  #95
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Assuming Semin doesn't re-sign in Washington (or tha Caps just can't re-sign him), what do you think he will get as a UFA? What do you guys think Backes would get in 2011?

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02-08-2010, 03:58 PM
  #96
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If we can't get Kovalchuk the only FAs I'm interested in are Plekanec, Lombardi and I guess a steady and affordable vet. D man. It would actually be pretty funny if we didn't re-sign Jokinen and then signed Lombardi...

Also, 1000th post FINALLY! Only took me like 5 years...

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02-08-2010, 04:24 PM
  #97
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You simply cannot have Five players making over 6 million each when the cap is fifty something million dollars. Especially when two of them play like absolute crap every night. We don't have to go out and get the big name EVERY single time. It's so backwards here it's crazy. Enough already.

Gaborik-????-Kovalchuk= The Donut Line (Huge hole in the middle)

Let's cripple ourselves cap wise forever. If it gets too bad, they'll probably reopen the CBA anyway. Who cares, right? Let's keep making ourselves just a little bit better every season so that we'll always just be okay. We'll never suck, but we'll never win. It's like hockey purgatory. Condemned here forever, where the brightest time of the season is July 1st when we get all our free agents and we can all anticipate what we think will happen, but will never actually happen. Why build a team when you can just buy one? That would require good drafting, coaching, and developing young players. That would involve kids who came out of juniors, played in the minors, and virtually grew up together. Nah, they would be way to close a group. We don't want that here. Hockey's different here. I'd rather give the "23 limos" strategy another decade or so just to make sure it's complete BS before we scrap it. Give me more guys who turned their back on franchises that gave them a chance and players that they played their whole careers with for the sake of money. Give me more guys who define winning as getting their name on a huge check than getting it on the Stanley Cup. Because that's what we want, it's what we're used to. Kovy will fit right in. He turned his back on guys he's played with for his whole career because 100 MILLION DOLLARS wasn't enough. What do you think motivates him?

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02-08-2010, 04:47 PM
  #98
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you guys are all talking about players who are going to be resigned.. marleau, vochecklov,

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02-08-2010, 05:04 PM
  #99
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Kovy and Vol, PLZ!!!

Forget the Cap

Honestly though if we don't have a chance at Kovy, and Avery kinda blows that one outta the water, Volchenkov would probably be amazing at our back end if we could get either Rozsi or Redden out. And considering the last couple trades I could see Sather getting it done.

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02-08-2010, 08:30 PM
  #100
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Getting Kovy is really going to be tough even if you deal rozy away....jokinen at 5mil(off the books) and another 5 for rozy if you deal him frees up 10 mil..plus another 5 mil from other RFA such as EC Staal Girardi Lisin Prust Prospal(ufa)...its roughly 16 mil of cap space so you let jokinen and prospal walk to sign kovy 8.5/9 mil is realistically I see him signing also you are right there knocked down to 7 mil left to sign staal(3.5) now you are down to 3.5 for girardi(who they probably would have to trade away)Lisin???EC??? Prust??? I mean plus there are like 3 more roster spots to fill even if you sing most of our RFA back...not enough cap room...if drury wasn't here with his 7 mil contract it would be so easy to do but rozy(which I could very well see them moving and the easiest of the 3 to move)and redden or drury would have to go.

So we must pass on Kovy unless we can move 2 of the big 3

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