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Old
02-08-2010, 05:12 PM
  #1
thedoctor
                    
 
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Col - Stl

This was brought into the Colorado GDT from a St. Louis fan (H/T TheOrganist), and we Colorado fans liked it as well. So, I thought I'd post it here for further analysis.

To Colorado: Brad Boyes

To St. Louis: John-Michael Liles

I'm not too familiar with the situations, but it seems to be 2 similarly aged, skilled, and paid players needing changes of scenery. Colorado needs a scoring winger and St. Louis needs a puck mover. Makes sense to me...thoughts?

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:18 PM
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Live Breathe Hockey
 
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I wouldn't say its horrible, but Boyes has put up 33 and 43 goal seasons so I would hope they get more than just Liles for him

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:19 PM
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would adding a 2nd or would it be more of a player that the avs would have to add

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
I wouldn't say its horrible, but Boyes has put up 33 and 43 goal seasons so I would hope they get more than just Liles for him
What does the Avs need to add?

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:23 PM
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thedoctor
                    
 
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Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
I wouldn't say its horrible, but Boyes has put up 33 and 43 goal seasons so I would hope they get more than just Liles for him
Liles is a PMD that averages 40-50 points / 82 games from the blue-line. One might say Colorado would hope they'd get more than a guy on pace for < 15 goals.

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:24 PM
  #6
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The av's will not move liles right now bc of all the injuries on their blueline, maybe he will get traded in the next 2 years with the development of ryan wilson, but cant see him get moved now, look for the AV's to package svastos at the deadline for a more efficient scorer

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:25 PM
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camarodude39
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The Blues have too many defensemen as it is. The value doesn't seem too far off, but we are already going to have trouble finding spots for Pie, Cole, Junland, etc going forward

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:28 PM
  #8
Drij
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Originally Posted by joesakic19 View Post
The av's will not move liles right now bc of all the injuries on their blueline, maybe he will get traded in the next 2 years with the development of ryan wilson, but cant see him get moved now, look for the AV's to package svastos at the deadline for a more efficient scorer
what injuries? With Liles they have 7 defensemen and soon will have 8.

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:31 PM
  #9
thedoctor
                    
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarodude39 View Post
The Blues have too many defensemen as it is. The value doesn't seem too far off, but we are already going to have trouble finding spots for Pie, Cole, Junland, etc going forward
How about...

Liles + Svatos + 3rd for Boyes + Colo?

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesakic19 View Post
The av's will not move liles right now bc of all the injuries on their blueline, maybe he will get traded in the next 2 years with the development of ryan wilson, but cant see him get moved now, look for the AV's to package svastos at the deadline for a more efficient scorer
yea, back up this outrageous post with some facts dingus!!!

what injuries to the avs blueline?

who?

what?

wtf!!!

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:35 PM
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How about...

Liles + Svatos + 3rd for Boyes + Colo?
i guess i thought boyes' value was higher, or that liles was lower because id do this trade in a heartbeat

liles and 2nd for boyes and colovaccio seems fairer

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02-08-2010, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by camarodude39 View Post
The Blues have too many defensemen as it is. The value doesn't seem too far off, but we are already going to have trouble finding spots for Pie, Cole, Junland, etc going forward
I don't think you can count on every one of those prospects to be a top 4 dman, and even more unlikely to be an immediate top 4 guy. Liles is a good stop gap before Pietro develops, and expires the same year as Pietro's ELC.

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02-08-2010, 05:35 PM
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Correction, Avs have 8 on the blueline. Salei has been cleared to play.

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by quesosauce View Post
i guess i thought boyes' value was higher, or that liles was lower because id do this trade in a heartbeat

liles and 2nd for boyes and colovaccio seems fairer
apparently he's on the outs there in my 5 minutes of research. /shrug

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:45 PM
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TheOrganist
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Originally Posted by camarodude39 View Post
The Blues have too many defensemen as it is. The value doesn't seem too far off, but we are already going to have trouble finding spots for Pie, Cole, Junland, etc going forward
First of all Petro is the only elite defensive prospect we have. Don't put Junland and Cole in his category. Petro is the only D prospect we need to "find a spot for."

Not all of these kids are going to don the Bluenote. Junland has put up numbers in the A but his looked shaky during his limited time in the show and his skating is awkward. There's not much in his skill set that says he will be a top defenseman and big contributor in the future.

Cole is a guy I haven't been impressed with since I saw him at his first prospect camp after we drafted him. His apparent desire to not spend much time in the minors and his concussion problem is only exacerbating my belief that he will not be with the team long term.

The Blues transition game and mobility on the blue line is still the Blues biggest problem by far. Liles, Petro and EJ quickly turn a weakness into a strength and a player like Liles, who is in his prime, is something this team badly needs. He's a legit offensive defenseman, great skater, great puck mover. Not a wannabe like Carlo.

We all know how one-dimensional Boyes is and he's been nothing short of awful from Day 1. The worst player on the team this year in my opinion. But GM's salivate over goals, and Boyes does have a track record of production, so he still has value around the league.

I understand fans of other teams who don't watch many Blues games probably think Boyes' value > Liles right now, but Boyes has been horrible this year.

It's 2 underachieving players who happen to make the same money and whose assets help the teams they are being traded to in this hypothetical deal more than their current teams.

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:48 PM
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I'd do just about any of the proposals in this thread. I've always liked Boyes. Not sure about Coliacavo. Like others have said, we have too many d-men already, and doesn't he have problems with injuries? We need some smart, physical defensemen, not more offensive guys.

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
How about...

Liles + Svatos + 3rd for Boyes + Colo?
I wouldn't mind this trade; Boyes would be a nice fit in Colorado

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Old
02-08-2010, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
Junland has put up numbers in the A but his looked shaky during his limited time in the show and his skating is awkward.
He's played 1 game in the NHL. I think he deserves a bigger stint than that in the nhl before we can make a real judgment on him like this.

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02-08-2010, 06:03 PM
  #19
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I wouldn't mind this trade; Boyes would be a nice fit in Colorado
I'd do it too.

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02-08-2010, 06:14 PM
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I'd do it from an Avs POV. I think Boyes would fit in to Colorado's top 6 really well.


GO AVS GO

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Old
02-08-2010, 06:25 PM
  #21
camarodude39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
First of all Petro is the only elite defensive prospect we have. Don't put Junland and Cole in his category. Petro is the only D prospect we need to "find a spot for."

Not all of these kids are going to don the Bluenote. Junland has put up numbers in the A but his looked shaky during his limited time in the show and his skating is awkward. There's not much in his skill set that says he will be a top defenseman and big contributor in the future.

Cole is a guy I haven't been impressed with since I saw him at his first prospect camp after we drafted him. His apparent desire to not spend much time in the minors and his concussion problem is only exacerbating my belief that he will not be with the team long term.

The Blues transition game and mobility on the blue line is still the Blues biggest problem by far. Liles, Petro and EJ quickly turn a weakness into a strength and a player like Liles, who is in his prime, is something this team badly needs. He's a legit offensive defenseman, great skater, great puck mover. Not a wannabe like Carlo.

We all know how one-dimensional Boyes is and he's been nothing short of awful from Day 1. The worst player on the team this year in my opinion. But GM's salivate over goals, and Boyes does have a track record of production, so he still has value around the league.

I understand fans of other teams who don't watch many Blues games probably think Boyes' value > Liles right now, but Boyes has been horrible this year.

It's 2 underachieving players who happen to make the same money and whose assets help the teams they are being traded to in this hypothetical deal more than their current teams.
Whether you think they are going to make it or not, you have to expect them to get a shot at the NHL soon to see what they have in those players. Looking at the blueline next season, you would have:

Brewer
Jackman
Polak
EJ
Petro
Liles
Strachan(RFA)
Cole
Junland

All of those guys would be expected to fight for a roster spot. That gives 9 d-men, if we acquire Liles. It would do no good for Junland, Petro, or Cole to sit every night as a healthy scratch with that depth, so you would have to assume 2 of those 3 guys would be sent to Peoria(something I dont know that Cole will be willing to do, and Junland might be getting tired of), and yet another depth defensemen would be needed to be signed, giving us potentially 10 d-men under contract. That is a whole heck of a lot of defensemen....I think the offers in this thread all seem pretty fair, but doesnt really answer the Blues biggest need, which is an impact scoring forward.

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Old
02-08-2010, 06:59 PM
  #22
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Done from an Avs POV.

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Old
02-08-2010, 07:00 PM
  #23
TheOrganist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarodude39 View Post
Whether you think they are going to make it or not, you have to expect them to get a shot at the NHL soon to see what they have in those players. Looking at the blueline next season, you would have:

Brewer
Jackman
Polak
EJ
Petro
Liles
Strachan(RFA)
Cole
Junland

All of those guys would be expected to fight for a roster spot. That gives 9 d-men, if we acquire Liles. It would do no good for Junland, Petro, or Cole to sit every night as a healthy scratch with that depth, so you would have to assume 2 of those 3 guys would be sent to Peoria(something I dont know that Cole will be willing to do, and Junland might be getting tired of), and yet another depth defensemen would be needed to be signed, giving us potentially 10 d-men under contract. That is a whole heck of a lot of defensemen....I think the offers in this thread all seem pretty fair, but doesnt really answer the Blues biggest need, which is an impact scoring forward.
It's called a trade, bud. Dealing from a surplus. Not all these guys in the pipeline are going to be coming to the show as Blues.

Petro will not be an extra defenseman going into 2010-11. Next year is finally his time to shine. No more question marks around his status. He's going to be here full time.

Brewer/Jackman/Polak/Petro/EJ/Liles would be a solid defensive core...a versatile group, filled with offensive guys who can push the play and man the point on the PP and guys who are solid in their own end.

Brewer's albatross contract comes off after 2011 and the Blues still have depth in the pipeline if they were to deal a Cole or Junland with guys like Strachan and Rundbland. Depth defenseman who can give you 14-17 minutes like Mike Weaver are a dime-a-dozen.

The Blues need more dynamic talent on the blue line. A guy like Liles fits the bill and doesn't impact our salary structure to pay Perron and EJ this summer because Boyes would be going the other way.

Liles is just a good gamble in my opinion. I'm sick of our horrible transition game. You add Petro and Liles in one offseason and this team improves immensely in that area.

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Old
02-08-2010, 07:12 PM
  #24
camarodude39
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It's called a trade, bud. Dealing from a surplus. Not all these guys in the pipeline are going to be coming to the show as Blues.

Petro will not be an extra defenseman going into 2010-11. Next year is finally his time to shine. No more question marks around his status. He's going to be here full time.

Brewer/Jackman/Polak/Petro/EJ/Liles would be a solid defensive core...a versatile group, filled with offensive guys who can push the play and man the point on the PP and guys who are solid in their own end.

Brewer's albatross contract comes off after 2011 and the Blues still have depth in the pipeline if they were to deal a Cole or Junland with guys like Strachan and Rundbland. Depth defenseman who can give you 14-17 minutes like Mike Weaver are a dime-a-dozen.

The Blues need more dynamic talent on the blue line. A guy like Liles fits the bill and doesn't impact our salary structure to pay Perron and EJ this summer because Boyes would be going the other way.

Liles is just a good gamble in my opinion. I'm sick of our horrible transition game. You add Petro and Liles in one offseason and this team improves immensely in that area.
I fully expect Petro to be in the lineup every day next season. So that leaves Junland and Cole on the outside looking in. Rumor has it that Cole is not very open to playing in Peoria. And Junland may or may not be happy with another season on the other side of the river.

I just dont see the Blues making a trade to bring in a defensemen with multiple years remaining on his contract without moving another defensemen whose contract runs beyond this season in the deal.

Boyes for Liles isnt trading from our depth. Defense is our depth, and that would be simply adding even more depth. If Brewer or Jackman were dealt elsewhere, I would be able to get behind this deal, but I dont see that happening because of Brewer's recent injury woes, and Jackman's high value by JD and Co.

Also, $4.25m isnt really an albatross contract for a d-man playing over 20 mins a night on a top 10 PK....you are making it sound like it is Wade Redden, Rozsival, Hamerlik bad.

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Old
02-08-2010, 07:15 PM
  #25
Randall Ritchey
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Originally Posted by quesosauce View Post
i guess i thought boyes' value was higher, or that liles was lower because id do this trade in a heartbeat

liles and 2nd for boyes and colovaccio seems fairer
Don Cherry is that you!?!?!?

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