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Tortorella preaches patience with Rangers

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02-09-2010, 09:29 AM
  #51
Shadowrunner
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The man has his flaws, to be sure, but let's be fair here -- he does practice what he preaches. He's willing to give the young guys all the time in the world to grow and prove themselves. He rewards good play and work ethic (Del Zotto) and punishes the opposite (Redden, Kotalik). He plays a 7 million dollar player on the 4th line because that's where he deserves to play, while 95% of coaches would give him top 6 minutes to justify his contract.

In my book, that's accountability. And I LOVE seeing it in this organization. He's honest. You may not always agree with him, but he has his philosophy and sees it through. This is the coach I want to shape our team going forward.

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02-09-2010, 09:48 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
The man has his flaws, to be sure, but let's be fair here -- he does practice what he preaches. He's willing to give the young guys all the time in the world to grow and prove themselves. He rewards good play and work ethic (Del Zotto) and punishes the opposite (Redden, Kotalik). He plays a 7 million dollar player on the 4th line because that's where he deserves to play, while 95% of coaches would give him top 6 minutes to justify his contract.

In my book, that's accountability. And I LOVE seeing it in this organization. He's honest. You may not always agree with him, but he has his philosophy and sees it through. This is the coach I want to shape our team going forward.
Really?

Hes the coach I'd like if we were a contender. Hes not the coach I'd prefer in this perpetual half-assed rebuilding phase, far from it in fact.

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02-09-2010, 10:07 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
The man has his flaws, to be sure, but let's be fair here -- he does practice what he preaches. He's willing to give the young guys all the time in the world to grow and prove themselves. He rewards good play and work ethic (Del Zotto) and punishes the opposite (Redden, Kotalik). He plays a 7 million dollar player on the 4th line because that's where he deserves to play, while 95% of coaches would give him top 6 minutes to justify his contract.

In my book, that's accountability. And I LOVE seeing it in this organization. He's honest. You may not always agree with him, but he has his philosophy and sees it through. This is the coach I want to shape our team going forward.
Agree with you. Coaches being fired across the league and Renney never even considered as a candidate. That is the guy who wasted years here doing just the opposite of what you detailed above. Tort's is the right guy if Sather and Dolan can handle his blunt politically incorrect honesty.

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02-09-2010, 10:12 AM
  #54
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Agree with you. Coaches being fired across the league and Renney never even considered as a candidate. That is the guy who wasted years here doing just the opposite of what you detailed above. Tort's is the right guy if Sather and Dolan can handle his blunt politically incorrect honesty.
That is a stunningly inaccurate statement.

When we look back on the immediate post-lockout period, Renney is the one that is going to be credited with bringing this franchise back from embarassment. To call his years here "wasted" and then laud the accomplishments of a .500 coach that attacked a fan during the playoffs last season is an astonishingly inept viewpoint of whats happened here over the last 5 seasons.

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02-09-2010, 10:13 AM
  #55
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I'm all for building, but unfortunately the architect is way past his prime. What Sather hasn't done is trade a lot of youth since the lockout. What he also hasn't done is developed many top talent.

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02-09-2010, 10:19 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That is a stunningly inaccurate statement.

When we look back on the immediate post-lockout period, Renney is the one that is going to be credited with bringing this franchise back from embarassment. To call his years here "wasted" and then laud the accomplishments of a .500 coach that attacked a fan during the playoffs last season is an astonishingly inept viewpoint of whats happened here over the last 5 seasons.
I didnt like Tom as a coach but he did many good things for the org's. scouting and player dev.
I wish they had found a way to keep him working for the team.

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02-09-2010, 10:20 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Really?

Hes the coach I'd like if we were a contender. Hes not the coach I'd prefer in this perpetual half-assed rebuilding phase, far from it in fact.
Really. Remember, he took over a last place bottom feeder in Tampa, and shaped them into a Cup winner. It's not like he was brought in to an already good team to "finish the job."

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02-09-2010, 10:22 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That is a stunningly inaccurate statement.

When we look back on the immediate post-lockout period, Renney is the one that is going to be credited with bringing this franchise back from embarassment. To call his years here "wasted" and then laud the accomplishments of a .500 coach that attacked a fan during the playoffs last season is an astonishingly inept viewpoint of whats happened here over the last 5 seasons.
Totally agree with you about Renney, but I wish people would let go off that water bottle incident already. He's a fiery guy, he got too caught up in the moment, it happens. Just because he didn't bench himself doesn't mean he wasn't remorseful.

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02-09-2010, 10:29 AM
  #59
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If by "some fans", you mean, the vast minority, I agree.
Well, I sure would hope that most fans are capable of recognizing that this team is not that good, and I think that many fans on here realize this.

But when I see threads like "Do we have the talent to win the cup?," fans willing to sacrifice youth to trade for Kovalchuk as a rental, and posters who think that the Rangers can do some damage in the playoffs as a 7-8 seed, sometimes it makes me think otherwise....

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02-09-2010, 10:48 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
Really. Remember, he took over a last place bottom feeder in Tampa, and shaped them into a Cup winner. It's not like he was brought in to an already good team to "finish the job."
He whipped that culture into shape, but lets not act like he didnt have a dearth of talent when he got to Tampa Bay. I have no doubts what Tortorella can do when hes given such talent to mold, but I think thats more motivation than anything. My concerns lie on the coaching job he can do when hes given one extraordinarily talent and a bunch of plumbers.

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02-09-2010, 10:49 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That is a stunningly inaccurate statement.

When we look back on the immediate post-lockout period, Renney is the one that is going to be credited with bringing this franchise back from embarassment. To call his years here "wasted" and then laud the accomplishments of a .500 coach that attacked a fan during the playoffs last season is an astonishingly inept viewpoint of whats happened here over the last 5 seasons.

Not stunningly inaccurate at all if you read Shadowrunners statement. Surely you can't claim Jagr was dropped to the 4th line for all of his lazy play or anybody else punished for poor play. Prucha played hard every chance he got yet was never rewarded. Jagr's skill level alone brought this team back from embarrassment but only when he felt like it. Not exactly a model of great motivation and coaching leadership. Neither Shadowrunner nor I in agreeing with him lauded the "accomplishments" of a .500 coach. Only his honesty in practicing what he preaches, in handing out playing time based on performance and effort. We agree he has his flaws as well as his penchant for holding players accountable.

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02-09-2010, 11:01 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That is a stunningly inaccurate statement.

When we look back on the immediate post-lockout period, Renney is the one that is going to be credited with bringing this franchise back from embarassment.
Yeah Renney did a lot of good. He had his flaws...relied heavily on veterans and played favorites at times (I still can't get over his treatment of Prucha...he basically ran the guy out of town, turning a fan favorite into a shell of himself, and possibly screwed up his development. I don't think Prucha was a legit 30 goal scorer but he could have been a whole lot like Callahan for the Rangers, scoring around 20 goals with fierce forechecking and never give up attitude), but ultimately he was finally a coach that did have a clue, after years of bad coaches, and he was heavily involved in player development.

At any rate, regardless of how the team is doing, I do like a lot of what Tortorella preaches, and hope it will actually bear fruit in a few years

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02-09-2010, 11:05 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
Surely you can't claim Jagr was dropped to the 4th line for all of his lazy play or anybody else punished for poor play.
No, because Jagr had the ability to score goals. A lot of goals.
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Prucha played hard every chance he got yet was never rewarded.
Higgens played hard. Like Prucha, like Vally, like Betts, etc. working hard isn't always enough.
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
Jagr's skill level alone brought this team back from embarrassment but only when he felt like it. Not exactly a model of great motivation and coaching leadership.
I disagree with this. Jagr loved it in NY, he didn't want to leave, etc. There is this myth that Jagr only played hard when he wanted too. Is this due to his GODLY abilities in the playoffs? Or during regular season play? Because for anyone who says "Jagr only played when he felt like it." I disagree 100%. Because the playoffs alone - which is when it counts - he was always possessed.



*edit* I am still in awe and completely dumbfounded by the love-fest Petr Prucha gets.

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02-09-2010, 11:08 AM
  #64
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There's people who actually have faith in this organization?


1 Cup in 70 years.


I'll believe it when I see it. I don't care what they say. It's about making the right decisions. That comes through trades, free agent signings, how you deal with issues like Redden/Drury, drafting, developing players.

I don't have any faith this organization will give me another Cup before I die.

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02-09-2010, 11:12 AM
  #65
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People liked Prucha because he worked hard, never gave up, and even if he didn't score as much in his 3+ year, he created chances.

Renney benched him so that he could put Aaron Voros in the lineup. Aaron ****ing Voros who is only useful as a 4th liner who gets less than 10 minutes per game, but Renney tried him up and down the lineup consistently. Every game Prucha got, he did more than Voros did, but then Renney would bench him because "Voros has size" and then Voros would go out and do absolutely nothing and probably lose a fight.

That's why I'm still sore about Renney's treatment of Prucha. He was a fun player to watch and while not a top six forward like we originally hoped, he could have been a useful player. But Renney ran him out of town for absolutely no reason.

Also, saying "Jagr was money in the playoffs when it mattered!" kind of proves the idea that he only tried when he felt like it. If you have to specifically point out a time when a player worked his hardest, that probably means he wasn't working so hard at other times.

I really liked Jagr, but there's no doubt he'd sometimes struggle during the season to find the right level of competitiveness. Whether it was on purpose or he just couldn't always get himself up for a regular season game, he would go through some periods of uninspired play.

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02-09-2010, 11:54 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
There's people who actually have faith in this organization?


1 Cup in 70 years.


I'll believe it when I see it. I don't care what they say. It's about making the right decisions. That comes through trades, free agent signings, how you deal with issues like Redden/Drury, drafting, developing players.

I don't have any faith this organization will give me another Cup before I die.
So you're like 90 right?

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02-09-2010, 01:24 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
He whipped that culture into shape, but lets not act like he didnt have a dearth of talent when he got to Tampa Bay. I have no doubts what Tortorella can do when hes given such talent to mold, but I think thats more motivation than anything. My concerns lie on the coaching job he can do when hes given one extraordinarily talent and a bunch of plumbers.
Eh, when he got to Tampa Bay he took over a last place team with a bunch of lazy vets and a young and inconsistent Vinny Lecavalier (great potential, though not much better than Dubinsky is now). I wouldn't call that a dearth of talent. Vinny, St Louis, Richards and Boyle all became stars under his watch, so he must've done something right.

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02-09-2010, 03:34 PM
  #68
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Sounds like Torts has it figured out. Staple is absolutely correct though, no more big moves will be or can be made unless it involves Redden, Rozsival, or Drury. Once those bums are gone, this team will really be in the clear for a run at the Cup if managed correctly.
And they won't be gone until the kids are ready and right now, like it or not, Sangs is worse defensively then Redden or Rozsival.

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The core of this team right now is excellent, but bad contracts bad contracts bad contracts are crippling us.
From doing what?

Hypothetically speaking, Redden and is contract are not on this team, what pieces of value do you give up, to get something of value? Picks...Prospects...Youth...a core player? Any overpaid UFA is a stopgap until an internal option is ready. Extra cap space is only good to ensure you can keep your developing players (RFAs) and fill the gaps with more UFAs. Right now the Rangers aren't looking to do either and Dubi and Cally were both resigned, so I don't really see how an overpaid UFA is crippling the team. Like it or not, if an overpaid UFA (Redden) is better then an internal prospect (Sanguinetti), the team is better with the overpaid UFA.

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