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Trade Henrik?

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Old
02-08-2010, 04:13 PM
  #151
Fletch
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I'm not really sure there is parity among the goalies in this league. Offense is needed, but it seemed as though PITT started to really win once Fleury began to come into his own, especially in the Finals. Scipio makes a great point regarding the goaltending of Washington. Philly seemed to always have decent teams but lacked the goaltending. The Devils lost in round 1 last season due to goaltending (if you score 3 goals in the playoffs and don't win, that's a lack of defense). So while offense is great, if you have a top-notch goaltender, it helps a lot. I think we forget how often Henke is hung out to dry and how often he's had to bail-out the defensive gaffes and turnovers from these teams over the years. He may not always face the most shots, but when he is being shot upon, it's often a quality shot.

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02-08-2010, 04:15 PM
  #152
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on another note, competition is always a good thing, but starting goalies are used to starting. They're not used to sitting and these are guys you need to remain sharp. Every other position player plays every game. I think starting goalies should start as many games that makes sense for them realizing that not all of them are Brodeur (or Fuhr).

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02-08-2010, 04:25 PM
  #153
mullichicken25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I'm not really sure there is parity among the goalies in this league. Offense is needed, but it seemed as though PITT started to really win once Fleury began to come into his own, especially in the Finals. Scipio makes a great point regarding the goaltending of Washington. Philly seemed to always have decent teams but lacked the goaltending. The Devils lost in round 1 last season due to goaltending (if you score 3 goals in the playoffs and don't win, that's a lack of defense). So while offense is great, if you have a top-notch goaltender, it helps a lot. I think we forget how often Henke is hung out to dry and how often he's had to bail-out the defensive gaffes and turnovers from these teams over the years. He may not always face the most shots, but when he is being shot upon, it's often a quality shot.
i can see what your saying for sure and i cant say your wrong, however, in my opinion i feel its more important to have a "hot" goalie than one who's considered world-class

like you said, devils lost in round one....marty is constantly regarded as one of the best goalies to ever play the game, but played kinda sh!tty...meanwhile the Cam Ward stood on his face during their cup run and he's hardly what anyone would call a world class goalie

which brings me to my point about parity, im trying to say that almost any starting goalie at this point in the NHL has the abilty to get hot and play "elite" style games

im curoius to see how teams like Washington and Chicago (no one considers Huet elite, right?) do in the playoffs this year, cause they could significantly help to make/break my point

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02-08-2010, 05:03 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
i dont get why you insist on doing that

also, if a rant is explaining and subsequently defending the reasons i feel he should be traded if the right offer comes around then i guess /rant?

edit: now that i notice my grade has been changed i feel i should mention that its quite dificult to get a point through when someone refuses to actually read and think about what is said
I insist on doing that because your logic is questionable and what you're saying makes zero sense. Not all of it, but alot, especially when it comes to goalies.

Let's take it again from the beginning:
*As your main point, you're describing and rating Hank as an above average goalie who is among the worst in the league in consistency. "Horrible" usually means "among the worst". This, I have to repeat, is according to me a ridiculous and faulty analysis of Henrik Lundqvist.
*You say you absolutely would trade Lundqvist "for a good offer".
*A couple of posts after that, you hope some GM would be "stupid enough" to trade for him.
*You're also stating just about any average starter in the league could probably do almost as well, as the difference is very slim.
*You bash me for claiming you wish to trade Lundqvist and calling you out on that average starters would do just as well.
*Yet, you also mention him among words as "World class goalie"?? How you can do that while describing him as nothing but above average, is beyond me. Is that what is called "covering all your bases"?

So:
1.You want to trade him, but get angry at me when I imply you wish him gone, especially when I call you out on that such a fine example as the average Kevin Weekes was such a success for the team (and according to your logic, would do almost as well as Hank). And I mean yeah, this team has such a fine history with successful, average goaltenders that have been able to cover all the flaws and holes of the pathetic performances, in the lineups that have been housed.
2. You don't seem that happy to have him around, especially if you're counting in his salary, which you should.

Pardon my "reading and comprehension skills" and that my tone towards you might seem harsh, but your babbling where you do 180 degree turns just between a few lines is difficult to grasp and makes an unserious tone, hence the continous derogation of the contents of your posts by "statz" and "analyziz". You're simply frustrating to read and that will bring a clear tone of frustration in the answers. Childish of me, perhaps, but I'm just sick and tired of this.

---

Somehow, alot of you seem to get stuck in the mindset that "Building a team around Hank is wrong". Talk about simplyfying the New York Rangers. You seem to miss that the team isn't built around Hank. The team is built around utter crap to ridiculous contracts, where zero performance is asked back. Hank is just there to try to cover up the mess. True, Hank is and should be an integral part of a successful NYR team. Tom Renney built the team around Hank, but that was only because he realized what a mediocre team he had in front of him. Hank should be one of the franchise players the team has, not the. Morons. Just because this franchise has failed miserably at constructing a team, it doesn't automatically mean it's stupid to have a franchise goalie. Just how you come to that conclusion is beyond me.

Forget about all this crap such as "that team had two good centers", "that team had a good defenseman and a winger." How about aquiring good players, regardless of their ******* position? That's a good start if you want a good team. Dynasty franchises form their plan and then get the players, but that's probably a little bit too complicated for the NYR. So getting some players worth a damn should be a good start. First learn to crawl, then you can learn to walk.

As so many want to build some pathetic copy of the Washington Capitals: They would be an entertaining team to watch, if they had just Ovechkin. But they don't. They have a couple of special players that are carrying the team. The NYR has two and had one last year. So somehow, the team isn't more than mediocre, because we have an elite goalie instead of, I don't know, an elite center instead of Hank? Give me a ****ing break. How about a real center @ $7.3m instead of Drury or a real defenseman instead of Redden @ $6.5m?

This boards... sometimes... I just don't know how some of you passed school. You wish him traded? Well, too often nowadays I wish him traded too, but for whole other reasons than yours. I wish him to ask for a trade, get traded for someone like Kane, some depth player, some scrub like Huet/ Khabibulin and some pick. Then you can sit there and appreciate the stinking crap of a team that will aquire high draft picks like it was candy on Halloween for another half a decade. All the while Hank wins multiple cups with the Blackhawks. But I'm sure the offense will be better.

Get this through your heads:
1. Franchise players are good to have. Regardless of position.
2. The more franchise players or players with carrying capability you have, the better chances your team will have of becoming successful.
3. Trading away your franchise players to become better, because the rest of the team are bums, is ****ing retarded and ONLY pays off if it is found out the franchise player was only a fake franchise player, who flourished in the enviroment he played in*. Prime example: Marleau.
4. Practically ALL GMs who have traded away franchise players, have been considered idiots when history has passed its judgement.


*I think it's pretty safe to say Hank doesn't exactly need the bona fide elite defense of the New York Rangers to continue being a franchise goaltender on another team.


Last edited by Chimp: 02-08-2010 at 05:54 PM.
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Old
02-08-2010, 05:31 PM
  #155
Tony D63
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while were at that lets just trade gabby, dz, and staal.

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02-08-2010, 05:39 PM
  #156
HockeyStickHomicide
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this forum is hilariously retarded sometimes...

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02-08-2010, 05:45 PM
  #157
Fletch
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having a hot goalie can be better than having a world class goalie, however, it is very difficult to determine when those hills and valleys may be while you try to juggle two goalies and hit each at the right time, which is why I don't think platooning works and won't be the wave of the future. Give me a world-class goalie any day of the week over a platoon of what would likely be average goaltenders (I mean, how much can you really afford in the goaltender position? $6-7MM? If you have parity you have two guys around $3-3.5MM - not sure what quality goalie you'll get for that much).

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02-09-2010, 11:02 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
The next number this team will retire will be #30. Lundqvist will be this generation's Leetch.
We should have traded Leetch sooner.

I am not a player fan. I don't care for retired numbers. I am a Ranger fan. Anyone could be traded and should be, as a matter of fact, under right circumstances. The best players should be on top of the list because nothing can be received for the garbage no one wants on the team.
All being said I am not a Lundqvist trade proponent. At this time it doesn't make much sense, cause he is able to keep the team competitive. However, he is not the best goalie that ever played the game either. There will be Rangers past Lundqvist tenure here.

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02-09-2010, 11:04 AM
  #159
Riche16
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I would love to see what Henrik would do with a solid D in front of him and an just average set of forwards.

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02-09-2010, 11:27 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
I insist on doing that because your logic is questionable and what you're saying makes zero sense. Not all of it, but alot, especially when it comes to goalies.

Let's take it again from the beginning:
*As your main point, you're describing and rating Hank as an above average goalie who is among the worst in the league in consistency. "Horrible" usually means "among the worst". This, I have to repeat, is according to me a ridiculous and faulty analysis of Henrik Lundqvist.
i also went on to say that many goalies exhibit the same characteristics, implying that its more of a problem with goaltenders in general at this point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
*You say you absolutely would trade Lundqvist "for a good offer".
*A couple of posts after that, you hope some GM would be "stupid enough" to trade for him.
yes, i feel that if a team is offering more than he's worth then we should at least entertain the idea of trading him...i didnt think that was a ridiculous proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
*You're also stating just about any average starter in the league could probably do almost as well, as the difference is very slim.
sort of, I'm saying two things....

first, many starting goalies at this point in the NHL are capable of getting very hot and playing at a high level, at the same time, many of the "elite level" goalies are quite inconsistant

2nd, that creates a sistuation in which the difference between the "tiers" of goltender is decreased. I'm not saying that its non-existant, as obviouslly there is still different levels of goalie, im merely saying that the drop-off from the top level to the next is not as big as it has been, or as many people say


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
*You bash me for claiming you wish to trade Lundqvist and calling you out on that average starters would do just as well.
i didn't like that you put words in my mouth...i dont wish Lundqvist to be traded, im only saying that he is not untouchable, and im open to the idea if an overpayment type of offer was presented


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
*Yet, you also mention him among words as "World class goalie"?? How you can do that while describing him as nothing but above average, is beyond me. Is that what is called "covering all your bases"?
im calling him a "world class goalie" because he is commonly regarded as such, i was not expressing it as my own opinion


whatever...we disagree, thats fine

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02-09-2010, 12:15 PM
  #161
Chimp
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
... whatever...we disagree, thats fine
At least we can agree on something. The internet classic.

As for if any GM would be dumb enough to give more for Lundqvist than he's worth, you know it's not going to happen, so the discussion is moot.

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02-09-2010, 12:24 PM
  #162
mullichicken25
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
At least we can agree on something. The internet classic.

As for if any GM would be dumb enough to give more for Lundqvist than he's worth, you know it's not going to happen, so the discussion is moot.
once again we're in agreement....wow, if we keep this up you could be the best man at my wedding one day

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Old
02-09-2010, 01:48 PM
  #163
AlwaysARanger
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See you in Oslo next fall chimp and mullichicken25

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Old
02-09-2010, 02:35 PM
  #164
Chimp
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Originally Posted by AlwaysARanger View Post
See you in Oslo next fall chimp and mullichicken25
At least we're more worthy winners than the current prize winner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
once again we're in agreement....wow, if we keep this up you could be the best man at my wedding one day
Beer can solve alot of things.

Ok, I went Off Topic here a little bit, but it's note like the On Topic discussion is any more sane than I am.

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