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Bring in Frolov as a free agent

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Old
02-10-2010, 05:54 PM
  #26
TheHotRock
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frolov @ 4 mil or less per would be fine by me. i think he'd work well with Anisimov. both have good size and are good in that half court type game

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02-10-2010, 05:54 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
imho free agency should be used to get the top of the top end talent if it hits it, and for cheap fill in options. its the in between that screws you. those are the guys you should develop from within as cheap alternatives. its guys like Gomez, Drury, Kalinin, Kotalik, Redden, etc. Guys who are middle area guys at their respective positions getting paid WAY more than they should that screw a team over cap wise. Try to stock your 2nd through 4th lines from within, and your bottom 4 defense from within. if you can get your top d-pair and your top line from within too, or at least parts of it, thats a bonus.

Get me Kovalchuk. Get me Marian Hossa. Get me Marian Gaborik. Get me guys of that ilk. Don't get me Frolov or those kinds of guys. they can be had for much cheaper from within the organization.


Hey Inferno, thanks for the post and for your breakdown.

I'm curious...who do you see in the org that can step in right away (next year or the year after even) and provide the kind of offensive pop that Frolov can bring?

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02-10-2010, 05:55 PM
  #28
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Ah yes 5 years 30 mil not 6 years 30 mil

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02-10-2010, 05:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I wouldn't say Frolov would be a lock to net 30 goals a season. He's done it twice in six seasons and there is no chance he gets to 30 this season either. He should be good for at least 20 goals a season, but Higgins was suppose to be as well. He has work ethic issues and an attitude problem, apparently. He was benched for a few games earlier this season because of it. The Kings are looking to deal him in the middle of their playoff run. Something is not right with this guy. Not to mention he is on pace for one of his worst seasons of his career.
I didn't really mean I'm in favor of Frolov specifically, but that's the kind of caliber player we need. A player who can get 30 or so goals in a season, as well as many more 20 goal scorers.

Gaborik - 50ish
Callahan/Dubinsky/Prospal/Jokinen - 20ish
Drury/Anisimov - 15ish

Those are the only players we have that are really solid for 10+ goals so far this season. Avery has 6, and should be producing WAY more goals than he is right now. I'd be surprised if he makes it to 10. Lisin has 6 goals, and he's not going to make it 10 since he sits on the bench for half the games. Del Zotto has 6 goals, but after that burst in the beginning of the season he slowed down. He's obviously tired. Everyone else has 5 or less goals so far.

So the Rangers have 7 players that are solid to get more than 10 goals, 3 players that might make it to 10, and bunch of other players that you can count on not getting 10 for the year.

If the Rangers can get one or two 30-goal scorers, and some players that can actually make it to 10-15 goals, I think they'd be set. Oh, and of course a sweep of that pathetic defense. Staal/Gilroy/Del Zotto can stick around but the rest need to go.

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02-10-2010, 05:59 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
How many times have we heard about attitude problems only to see that a change of scenery is all that was needed? Hell, Vinny L was benched too. It happens a lot. I'm not saying that I know what goes on in the room, UA and he could very well be a cancer, but I think that with the down season, and perhaps discounted price, it's something to keep on one of the slow burners, simmering.

I think the comparison to Higgins is way off as well. Frolov has a way higher set of skills (Offensively) and has a set of hands that is first rate. Higgins, has hands of stone. While I agree that he's no lock for 30 goals, I think he has a great chance of reaching that. Him and Gaborik on either wing during the PP sounds pretty damn nice to me (he had 12 PP goals last year.)

Please keep in mind, I'm not saying that this should be our top priority. I'm just saying that Frolov should be an option if Sather strikes out bringing in a guy like Kovalchuk.
The Higgins comparision wasn't in regards to their skills, but that he was suppose to easily reach 20 goals for the Rangers this season. And the problem is that the Rangers can't go after anyone, whether it be Kovalchuk or Frolov, unless they are able to move one of Redden or Roszival or hopefully Brashear.

The Rangers will have approx $10.5 million in cap space for next season. The cap may go up about another $2 million if the players invoke their 5% escrow or whatever it's called lol. The Rangers have to re-sign Staal (Probably 3 years with a cap hit of $3 million), Girardi (Probably 2 years with a cap hit around $2 million), Prust (Probably around $650K), Sauer (around $850K, hopefully he takes a 2 way deal), and Byers (probably a 2 way deal though). Then the Rangers have to choose if they want to receive Lisin, Christiansen, Prospal, and Jokinen. Of that group, at the minimum I see the Rangers brining back Prospal (at around $2 million).

So out of that group of re-signed players, the Rangers will have used up around $8 million of that available $10.5 million in cap space.

Not saying that the Rangers making a deal to move some cap space can't happen, but who knows.

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02-10-2010, 06:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
frolov @ 4 mil or less per would be fine by me. i think he'd work well with Anisimov. both have good size and are good in that half court type game
I think the half court game is actually one of Anisimov's weaknesses at this point. He said himself that he was used to carrying the puck through the neutral zone more, and he wanted to work on improving his cycling in the offensive zone. He seems to not be reading when he has a good chance to forecheck hard and is hesitant to take the body. If he fixes that as he grows into his frame, he could be a real force down low in the next few years.

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02-10-2010, 06:07 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
The Higgins comparision wasn't in regards to their skills, but that he was suppose to easily reach 20 goals for the Rangers this season. And the problem is that the Rangers can't go after anyone, whether it be Kovalchuk or Frolov, unless they are able to move one of Redden or Roszival or hopefully Brashear.

The Rangers will have approx $10.5 million in cap space for next season. The cap may go up about another $2 million if the players invoke their 5% escrow or whatever it's called lol. The Rangers have to re-sign Staal (Probably 3 years with a cap hit of $3 million), Girardi (Probably 2 years with a cap hit around $2 million), Prust (Probably around $650K), Sauer (around $850K, hopefully he takes a 2 way deal), and Byers (probably a 2 way deal though). Then the Rangers have to choose if they want to receive Lisin, Christiansen, Prospal, and Jokinen. Of that group, at the minimum I see the Rangers brining back Prospal (at around $2 million).

So out of that group of re-signed players, the Rangers will have used up around $8 million of that available $10.5 million in cap space.

Not saying that the Rangers making a deal to move some cap space can't happen, but who knows.

I hear what you're saying but there is no way one of those three isn't moved or something isn't done to free up space. There is no way that the Rangers go into next season with the same roster we have this year.

The Higgins thing is still a bad comparison, IMO. While he was a 20 goal scorer, he wasn't flashy and never struck me as the type of guy that would pot 30+. Frolov, in my opinion, has the skills to net 30 + goals in the right environment. I think that NY could be that type of atmosphere.

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02-10-2010, 06:08 PM
  #33
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I would gladly take him for 4 years 4.5M a year.

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02-10-2010, 06:09 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
I didn't really mean I'm in favor of Frolov specifically, but that's the kind of caliber player we need. A player who can get 30 or so goals in a season, as well as many more 20 goal scorers.

Gaborik - 50ish
Callahan/Dubinsky/Prospal/Jokinen - 20ish
Drury/Anisimov - 15ish

Those are the only players we have that are really solid for 10+ goals so far this season. Avery has 6, and should be producing WAY more goals than he is right now. I'd be surprised if he makes it to 10. Lisin has 6 goals, and he's not going to make it 10 since he sits on the bench for half the games. Del Zotto has 6 goals, but after that burst in the beginning of the season he slowed down. He's obviously tired. Everyone else has 5 or less goals so far.

So the Rangers have 7 players that are solid to get more than 10 goals, 3 players that might make it to 10, and bunch of other players that you can count on not getting 10 for the year.

If the Rangers can get one or two 30-goal scorers, and some players that can actually make it to 10-15 goals, I think they'd be set. Oh, and of course a sweep of that pathetic defense. Staal/Gilroy/Del Zotto can stick around but the rest need to go.
The problem there is that if the Rangers bring back Prospal and Jokinen they won't be able to add any more players to the salary cap. They would have to move both Roszival and Redden but then they would have to replace those players on the backline.

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02-10-2010, 06:10 PM
  #35
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if we were able to keep antropov along with nik z we could of had all the depth we need but nope that would of been to easy
imagine we had antropov, zherdev, gabby and joke.. along with most of the supporting cast now minus a few people...we could be a contender. we wouldn't need threads like this...

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02-10-2010, 06:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I would gladly take him for 4 years 4.5M a year.
Jonathan, really? You think that Frolov could bring that much to the table? I think I would prefer to have him over Prospal AND Jokinen to be honest with you.\\

4.5 is a lot of scratch though. I don't know if I'd be willing to go that high.

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02-10-2010, 06:13 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
I hear what you're saying but there is no way one of those three isn't moved or something isn't done to free up space. There is no way that the Rangers go into next season with the same roster we have this year.

The Higgins thing is still a bad comparison, IMO. While he was a 20 goal scorer, he wasn't flashy and never struck me as the type of guy that would pot 30+. Frolov, in my opinion, has the skills to net 30 + goals in the right environment. I think that NY could be that type of atmosphere.
The player that is the most likely to be dealt is Roszival. I think he will be moved at some point in the off season, but they you have to replace him. Could put Sangs/Heikkanen/Sauer there, but that would be an extremely young backline.

I think adding a solid top 4 d-man should be the priority if the cap space is available. Someone that plays solid D and clear the crease, a la Volchenkov. Build from the net out.

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02-10-2010, 06:14 PM
  #38
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Frolov has big overpaid, underperform potential. A guy like Armstrong on the other hand would be money well spent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
Jonathan, really? You think that Frolov could bring that much to the table? I think I would prefer to have him over Prospal AND Jokinen to be honest with you.\\

4.5 is a lot of scratch though. I don't know if I'd be willing to go that high.
Antropov got 4+ as a UFA and Frolov has better skill.

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02-10-2010, 06:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
The problem there is that if the Rangers bring back Prospal and Jokinen they won't be able to add any more players to the salary cap. They would have to move both Roszival and Redden but then they would have to replace those players on the backline.
I didn't say it was going to happen. I'm just saying if the Rangers can do that, I think they can be a solid contender in the playoffs. The point is, it's not superstars we should be after. It's non-superstar 1st liners like Mike Richards, Nathan Horton, or Milan Michalek. Not specifically those players, but good players like those that are being paid $4-$5M a year. We don't need to drag in another 50 goal scorer and slap $8M+ a year on our salary cap for him.

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02-10-2010, 06:25 PM
  #40
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I didn't say it was going to happen. I'm just saying if the Rangers can do that, I think they can be a solid contender in the playoffs. The point is, it's not superstars we should be after. It's non-superstar 1st liners like Mike Richards, Nathan Horton, or Milan Michalek. Not specifically those players, but good players like those that are being paid $4-$5M a year. We don't need to drag in another 50 goal scorer and slap $8M+ a year on our salary cap for him.
Wasn't saying that either. In a perfect world the Rangers would waive Redden and then sign Volchenkov and run with a top 6 of:

Staal - MDZ
Volchenkov - Roszival
Girardi - Gilroy

Puts Girardi on the 3rd pairing, where he belongs and Volchenkov on the second pair upgrades the D big time.

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02-10-2010, 06:27 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Wasn't saying that either. In a perfect world the Rangers would waive Redden and then sign Volchenkov and run with a top 6 of:

Staal - MDZ
Volchenkov - Roszival
Girardi - Gilroy

Puts Girardi on the 3rd pairing, where he belongs and Volchenkov on the second pair upgrades the D big time.
I would love to keep Girardi, but realistically, he's probably going to demand $3M+ next year and for #5-#6 defenseman, that should not happen. I'm still in favor of bringing Tyutin back to MSG.

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02-10-2010, 06:27 PM
  #42
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Two left handed shots and two right handed shots isnt happening. And MDZ on the first pairing isnt quite right, at least not yet.

If Girardi isnt capable of facing top guys that leaves Gilroy and Rozsival as partner options.

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02-10-2010, 06:34 PM
  #43
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Someone will overpay Frolov in FA, I just hope it is not us.

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02-10-2010, 06:36 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
Jonathan, really? You think that Frolov could bring that much to the table? I think I would prefer to have him over Prospal AND Jokinen to be honest with you.\\

4.5 is a lot of scratch though. I don't know if I'd be willing to go that high.
4.5 is the max I'd do. Not a penny over.

I would prefer 3 years 4M per, but I think he gets more than that.

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02-10-2010, 06:38 PM
  #45
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Plekanec!! 4-4.5 million. This team needs a legit playmaker and a center who can distribute the puck. I would rather throw money at a player who can make the players around him better than someone who is a sniper with Gaborik already here. However, it would be nice to get Plekanec AND Kovalchuk.

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02-10-2010, 06:42 PM
  #46
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Jokinen gone as a UFA and Plekanac in makes more sense but this is his first real good year

Frolov kinda scares me as he's an underachiever

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02-10-2010, 06:45 PM
  #47
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Jokinen gone as a UFA and Plekanac in makes more sense but this is his first real good year

Frolov kinda scares me as he's an underachiever
This is his second good season. He had a down season last year when the likes of Tanguay and Lang were brought in pushing him down to be the 3rd line center spot. With all of the Habs injuries last season he was playing with different players all year. He had 69 points and 29 goals in 07-08 and he is on pace for 79 points this season over 82 games. He is a very underrated playmaker and the guy is feisty and likes to forecheck.

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02-10-2010, 06:46 PM
  #48
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Zherdev 2.0? Nah

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02-10-2010, 06:49 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
Hey Inferno, thanks for the post and for your breakdown.

I'm curious...who do you see in the org that can step in right away (next year or the year after even) and provide the kind of offensive pop that Frolov can bring?
see, that's where I think we fall into a trap. Who do you bring in to replace what Frolov could do. That's now the way I would look at it. I would look at it is like, the 4-5 mil it would take to bring Frolov and his production in is roughly what Dubinsky brings you, AND he costs less than half of what Frolov would cost you. AND that 4-5 mil could be better spent elsewhere, like Volchenkov. Get me Kovalchuk, get me Volchenkov, or let the kids play. I don't want cheap substitutions.

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02-10-2010, 06:51 PM
  #50
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Zherdev 2.0? Nah

While Frolov isn't my top choice, i realize his worth and know that he'd be a legitimate threat on the wing. What do you suggest as a secondary scoring option, Radek?

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