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Everything Canada (merged)

View Poll Results: Who should replace Getzlaf if he is injured?
Lecavalier 47 11.66%
Spezza 25 6.20%
Jeff Carter 64 15.88%
Ryan Smyth 10 2.48%
Steven Stamkos 170 42.18%
Marc Savard 8 1.99%
Martin St. Louis 61 15.14%
Other 18 4.47%
Voters: 403. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-11-2010, 09:43 AM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Ry-Dogg View Post
Anyone who has watched Stamkos play knows how crutial Stamkos is defensively. Stamkos did it all in juniors and i see him in the NHL blocking shots, intercepting pucks, going into the corners.. You must not know much about Stamkos if you're doubting his ability to step in and be an effective penalty killer if needed. Thats why 90% of scouts stated the main reason John Tavares would not get exception status was becasue Stamkos would go over him in a draft. That is due to his top level speed is among the best in the league, and he plays hard, smart and responsibly in all 3 zones, and he's shown many times he's a clutch player.

I'm not going to say Carter isn't deserving of team Canada.. but Carter over Stamkos is a massive mistake by Steve Yzerman, and just like 2006 when they bombed the "Why wasn't Crosby on Canada" stuff came out, it will be a watered down version of that if Canada doesn't win in regards to Stamkos. There's no questioning that he would be one of the top goal scorers on Canada, but the area of Stamkos' game that isn't well known is what would cause him to surpass Carter.

Big mistake for team canada and i pray this team doesn't suffer from the potential addition of Carter to Stamkos and the injured Getzlaf. This team's issue is going to be goal scoring, and thats where they'll feel the lack of Stamkos the most.

There's a reason why every poll has Stamkos with a massive amount of votes over the next person (usually 2x) and on many he has over 50% and the other 3-5 guys have less than 50% it's no mystery to Canadian hockey fans who the best player is.

Yeah, the issue is really going to be goal scoring what with Iginla bagging a regular 30+ a season, Crosby with almost 40 already, Heatley getting at least 40 a season, Nash getting around 40 a year, ditto for Carter, Marleau and Eric Staal, Toews is a 30+ goal man too, as is Perry and Richards, this team just can't score.

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02-11-2010, 09:46 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Canada's gonna come up short on offence & lose to a hot goalie and boy are they gonna be sorry not to have all the top 15 offensive talent NHL players they snubbed: Brad Richards, Mike Green, Lecavalier, St. Louis.
Green and Richards have been brutal defensively this season, they have every right to be snubbed.

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02-11-2010, 09:48 AM
  #603
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watching that show on home ice, showed me that canada is really only scared about 1 team and that is russia. so they built there team to stop russia.

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02-11-2010, 09:49 AM
  #604
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watching that show on home ice, showed me that canada is really only scared about 1 team and that is russia. so they built there team to stop russia.
Are you serious.

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02-11-2010, 09:55 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Gman3 View Post
Are you serious.
did you watch it? if not then you didn't hear yzerman and armstrong both say. "how do we stop russia", they never once said how do we stop finland, or how do we stop the czechs, or any other nation. just how do we stop russia. and also added in russia is the top nation right now.

canada's skill matches up with every country out there. russia's skill is the only 1 that could be said to be better from top to bottom.

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02-11-2010, 09:58 AM
  #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
did you watch it? if not then you didn't hear yzerman and armstrong both say. "how do we stop russia", they never once said how do we stop finland, or how do we stop the czechs, or any other nation. just how do we stop russia. and also added in russia is the top nation right now.

canada's skill matches up with every country out there. russia's skill is the only 1 that could be said to be better from top to bottom.
That doesn't mean they're molding their team as an anti-Russia unit. Russia simply has the best offense in the tournament, so if they're able to stop the Russians, they'll be able to stop the other teams as well. Good defense works well on any offense.

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02-11-2010, 10:03 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Jer Flip View Post
That doesn't mean they're molding their team as an anti-Russia unit. Russia simply has the best offense in the tournament, so if they're able to stop the Russians, they'll be able to stop the other teams as well. Good defense works well on any offense.
exactly, they are building this team to stop russia, thats my point. and to stop russia, you do not go guns a blazing. you take away there time and space. you hit them relentlessly, you make sure every time they touch the puck, there is a player there knocking them down, or giving them a bump.

and this even goes for ovechkin, yes he likes to throw around his body. but if you hit him enough, he will start to get careless, and lose his control a bit and may in turn take some stupid penalties.

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02-11-2010, 10:03 AM
  #608
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Stamkos and St. Louis should be on this team. I dont get this at all, I would rate Stamkos and St. Louis as being better than about half of the forwards that made team Canada.

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02-11-2010, 10:04 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
did you watch it? if not then you didn't hear yzerman and armstrong both say. "how do we stop russia", they never once said how do we stop finland, or how do we stop the czechs, or any other nation. just how do we stop russia. and also added in russia is the top nation right now.

canada's skill matches up with every country out there. russia's skill is the only 1 that could be said to be better from top to bottom.
I did see it, I don't really remember that bit, if it's true I find it hard to believe, and not a smart move, because obviously Sweden and maybe even the US are major threats too, Czech's could beat any of the big 4 too, Finland to a lesser extent in my view.

I would say that Russia maybe has the best top end skill, but they are bringing scrubs from the KHL too who don't even come close to Canada's bottom 6.

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02-11-2010, 10:08 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Stamkos and St. Louis should be on this team. I dont get this at all, I would rate Stamkos and St. Louis as being better than about half of the forwards that made team Canada.
I think what people seem to be forgetting is that a "team" was picked here, not just necessarily the best individual players.

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02-11-2010, 10:17 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by Gman3 View Post
I did see it, I don't really remember that bit, if it's true I find it hard to believe, and not a smart move, becuase obviously Sweden and maybe even the US are major threats too, Czech's could beat any of the big 4 too, Finland to a lesser extent in my view.

I would say that Russia maybe has the best top end skill, but they are bringing scrubs from the KHL too who don't even come close to Canada's bottom 6.
obviously any team can beat any team in a 1 game knock out type tournament, that goes without saying.

canada and russia both have the best offenses in this tournament. canada has a bit better bottom end scoring, and scoring from there defense. but russia just destroys canada on top end talent on the forward side.

canada and sweden have the best defense in the tournament from forward to defense.

goaltending in this tournament is a crap shoot, almost all of the top nations have great goaltending. nabokov/brysgalov, brodeur/loungo, lundqvist/gustavsson, miller/quick/thomas, hiller, vokoun, backstrom/kipper/nittymaki. every one of them goalies can get really hot and become unbeatable goalies. then there are the ones who are a bit lower then this talent, with halak/budaj, greiss. then there are norways, latvia's, and belarus's goalies who nobody knows about (hiller from 06).

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02-11-2010, 10:27 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
watching that show on home ice, showed me that canada is really only scared about 1 team and that is russia. so they built there team to stop russia.
This philosophy and tunnel vision will bite them in the ass.

The are so obsessed with shutting down Russia they are missing the big picture. All the other top 7 teams have fantastic goaltending, and when Canada loses these tournaments it's cuz they run into some hot goalie who puts on a 50 save performance.

Sometimes I wonder how influenced these "brain trust" guys are by media/hfboard hype. Russia's top line is arguably better than Canada's, but Canada's 9 other forwards are better, and they could out-offence Russia if it came down to a high pace run & gun game.

So instead of just playing Russia strength vs strength where they still have an advantage due to depth, Canada gets all defensively obsessed with "stopping" Russia, and leaving off supremely skilled TOP players (B. Richards, Lecavalier, St Louis, Stamkos, Green) who have a better chance of getting past a red a hot goalie (again, Team Canada's usual exit ticket) in favour of "blue collar" type "defensive" players.

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02-11-2010, 10:29 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Gman3 View Post
I think what people seem to be forgetting is that a "team" was picked here, not just necessarily the best individual players.
yeah cuz St.Louis, Stamkos, Brad Richards, & Lecavalier have no team history or chemistry. Try again.

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02-11-2010, 10:39 AM
  #614
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If I was a fan of another country, I would be pretty tired of hearing how Canada and Russia is a lock...it isn't.

And people in Canada, in general, are spending way too much time worrying about Team Russia. Russia is one of several quality teams we may have to beat if we want to win gold.

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02-11-2010, 10:42 AM
  #615
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
obviously any team can beat any team in a 1 game knock out type tournament, that goes without saying.

canada and russia both have the best offenses in this tournament. canada has a bit better bottom end scoring, and scoring from there defense. but russia just destroys canada on top end talent on the forward side.

canada and sweden have the best defense in the tournament from forward to defense.

goaltending in this tournament is a crap shoot, almost all of the top nations have great goaltending. nabokov/brysgalov, brodeur/loungo, lundqvist/gustavsson, miller/quick/thomas, hiller, vokoun, backstrom/kipper/nittymaki. every one of them goalies can get really hot and become unbeatable goalies. then there are the ones who are a bit lower then this talent, with halak/budaj, greiss. then there are norways, latvia's, and belarus's goalies who nobody knows about (hiller from 06).
Canada's bottom scoring is not just a bit better, it's way better when you consider that Russia is counting on career KHLer's for their bottom end scoring, Morozov a guy who wasn't good enough for the NHL, Zinovjev and Zaripov. Russia even said themselves that they put KHLer's on the team so they could show them off cause they think they are better, are they mad, do they really think they are better than Frolov or maybe even Kulemin. Other nations may have also made mistakes in not putting NHLer's on the team in favor of players playing in europe, I guess some of the GM's forgot that this tourney will be on NHL ice, but since they live in europe and see the euro players more I guess that's why they favored them.


Tim Thomas, Niittymaki even though he was good last time has fallen far since and Gustavsson aren't going to win any team a gold medal, though I like Quick he doesn't probably yet have enough experience to do it, Hiller, although good won't be winning anything because his team isn't good enough, Halak to me has shown lately he can step up to the plate and Slovakia could be quite the upsetter, as for the other good goalies well I agree on those, I am a bit concerned with Canada's goalies though, Brodeur although he has the best career international GAA, Torino could have been better, he's not as much of a game stealer as Luongo, I think Luongo is maybe out playing him by a hair right now, but the way they are both going I don't have as much confidence as I'd like.


Last edited by Scouter: 02-11-2010 at 11:04 AM.
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02-11-2010, 10:49 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
then there are the ones who are a bit lower then this talent, with halak/budaj, greiss. then there are norways, latvia's, and belarus's goalies who nobody knows about (hiller from 06).
Anybody who watches international hockey knows about them. They've all been around for years and all have put in great performances against some of the top teams in the world. None of them are any worse than Greiss or Hiller.

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02-11-2010, 10:52 AM
  #617
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I wish people here would hush (Edited to take out hostility) up about "We don't have enough offense on this team.... Bring Stamkos, etc etc etc". This team has MORE offense than ANY other team in the Olympics and that INCLUDES the Russians.

FACTS:
Canada has 9 of the top 30 point producers in the NHL ON Their team.
Russia has 3 of the top 30 point producers in the NHL on their team.

Canada has 7 of the top 30 GOAL scorers in the NHL on their team
Russia has 3 of the top 30 goal scorers in the NHL on their team.

Canada has 6 of the top 15 Point producers on defense in the NHL on their team, including 4 of the top 6 in the NHL.
Russia has 1 of the top ***30*** point producers on defense in the NHL on their team.

The lack of goal scoring in Tourin was not because we didn't bring Crosby. It was because the team had NO CHEMISTRY together. That is what needed to be fixed. And thats one major reason why we have Seabrook - Keith, Getzlaf - Perry, Heatley - Thornton - Marleau, Pronger - Neidermayer, etc.

Please seriously shut up about Canada not having enough goal scoring on the team. We have loads of it, and LOADS more than basically everyone else in the tournament.

BOOHOO, Canada left Stamkos off the team because he's nowhere near as good defensively as Richards. Boohoo, Stamkos isn't nearly as effective on the PK, which is what we needed a center do do because he wasn't going to replace Getzlaf, Crosby or Thornton... BOOHOO.

BOOHOO, Green wasn't on the team now we're going to lose even though we have 6 of the top 15 point producing Defensemen isn't enough offense from our back end... BOOHOO. We should have brought Green who's defensive errors would have given teams like Russia something to exploit.... BOOHOO.

Seriously, GET OVER IT.

Hell, Russia didn't even bring Frolov... their 4th top scorer.

Learn the concept of TEAM and understand why your players did NOT make it. The constant crying over this from people who have NO idea on how to build a team is getting rediculous. Arguing against selections that Yzerman, Holland, Lowe, Anderson, Babcock, Ruff, Hitchcock, and Lemaire made when you haven't the FAINTEST ideas on why your players weren't selected is crazy. Maybe learn the reason behind why your players didn't make the team before you start going on here.

STAMKOS - Didn't make the team because he'd be a 4th line center, and we needed someone who was EXCEPTIONAL defensively (Stamkos is not) who could eat up minutes on the PK. Something that Richards/Carter are FAR better at.

Green - Didn't make the team because even though he is very good offensively, he isn't FAR better then the other guys that are going, and he is FAR worse defensively then everyone else on the team, as in NOT EVEN CLOSE. Plus he make to many defensively mental mistakes/takes too many risks that even in the NHL causes goals against his team. In the Olympics against wave after wave of all-star players, it would be multiplied. And in a ONE GAME tournament, you can't have guys who are going to keep making these errors because ONE error could cost you the gold medal.

Get it?

Move on!


Last edited by Uhmkay: 02-11-2010 at 11:08 AM.
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02-11-2010, 10:55 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
I wish people here would shut the hell up about "We don't have enough offense on this team.... Bring Stamkos, etc etc etc". This team has MORE offense than ANY other team in the Olympics and that INCLUDES the Russians.

FACTS:
Canada has 9 of the top 30 point producers in the NHL ON Their team.
Russia has 3 of the top 30 point producers in the NHL on their team.

Canada has 7 of the top 30 GOAL scorers in the NHL on their team
Russia has 3 of the top 30 goal scorers in the NHL on their team.

Canada has 6 of the top 15 Point producers on defense in the NHL on their team, including 4 of the top 6 in the NHL.
Russia has 1 of the top ***30*** point producers on defense in the NHL on their team.

The lack of goal scoring in Tourin was not because we didn't bring Crosby. It was because the team had NO CHEMISTRY together. That is what needed to be fixed. And thats one major reason why we have Seabrook - Keith, Getzlaf - Perry, Heatley - Thornton - Marleau, Pronger - Neidermayer, etc.

Please seriously shut up about Canada not having enough goal scoring on the team. We have loads of it, and LOADS more than basically everyone else in the tournament.

BOOHOO, Canada left Stamkos off the team because he's nowhere near as good defensively as Richards. Boohoo, Stamkos isn't nearly as effective on the PK, which is what we needed a center do do because he wasn't going to replace Getzlaf, Crosby or Thornton... BOOHOO.

BOOHOO, Green wasn't on the team now we're going to lose even though we have 6 of the top 15 point producing Defensemen isn't enough offense from our back end... BOOHOO. We should have brought Green who's defensive errors would have given teams like Russia something to exploit.... BOOHOO.

Seriously, GET OVER IT.

Hell, Russia didn't even bring Frolov... their 4th top scorer.

Learn the concept of TEAM and understand why your players did NOT make it. The constant crying over this from people who have NO idea on how to build a team is getting rediculous. Arguing that Yzerman, Holland, Lowe, Anderson, Babcock, Ruff, Hitchcock, and Lemaire > World when it comes to how to build a winning hockey team.
A hostile but quality post.

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02-11-2010, 11:06 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
This philosophy and tunnel vision will bite them in the ass.

The are so obsessed with shutting down Russia they are missing the big picture. All the other top 7 teams have fantastic goaltending, and when Canada loses these tournaments it's cuz they run into some hot goalie who puts on a 50 save performance.

Sometimes I wonder how influenced these "brain trust" guys are by media/hfboard hype. Russia's top line is arguably better than Canada's, but Canada's 9 other forwards are better, and they could out-offence Russia if it came down to a high pace run & gun game.
So instead of just playing Russia strength vs strength where they still have an advantage due to depth, Canada gets all defensively obsessed with "stopping" Russia, and leaving off supremely skilled TOP players (B. Richards, Lecavalier, St Louis, Stamkos, Green) who have a better chance of getting past a red a hot goalie (again, Team Canada's usual exit ticket) in favour of "blue collar" type "defensive" players.
The last thing I would do if I was Canada is to try and beat the Russians at what they do best.

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02-11-2010, 11:13 AM
  #620
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Originally Posted by BlackAces View Post
A hostile but quality post.
Edited some of the hostility out for you.

Sorry, I just get upset when I see people saying that some people should have been there when they don't back up their arguements on why. Stamkos had no spots available for him. He wasn't going to replace Crosby, Thornton, or Getzlaf, and he's not nearly as good defensively as Richards/Carter, which is what we needed for the PK.

Bah, you're just getting me started again. Maybe I'll go to the Torch thread and argue with Wetcoaster about why that old woman Nancy Green shouldn't be the one to light the flame.

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02-11-2010, 11:15 AM
  #621
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
Edited some of the hostility out for you.

Sorry, I just get upset when I see people saying that some people should have been there when they don't back up their arguements on why. Stamkos had no spots available for him. He wasn't going to replace Crosby, Thornton, or Getzlaf, and he's not nearly as good defensively as Richards/Carter, which is what we needed for the PK.

Bah, you're just getting me started again. Maybe I'll go to the Torch thread and argue with Wetcoaster about why that old woman Nancy Green shouldn't be the one to light the flame.
Oh I didn't care about the hostlie wording, quite frankly I feel the same way. I just know it will cause a reaction in some people to have a "E ego" meltdown.

I am just as fed up with the second guessing of superstar studded team that hasn't even had one practice together yet, as you are.

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02-11-2010, 11:25 AM
  #622
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Canadian Hockey can be defined quite easily. Hit you till you don't want to play. With the defensive and forward skill for both the forward and the defensive groups they are going shut down everyone and pot goals. Russia's offense is scary. Designing a team around shutting down the most offensively gifted nation is EXACTLY how you win this tournament... To argue that this is a stupid plan is mind blowing...

Is it just me or does everyone forget that forwards have to play defensive hockey as well?

Stamkos is too young to make it as a forward and lacks the defensive skill and experience to be on the team. I'm sure he would make an impact on the PP but as a 4th line center you got to have more grit and better defensive play.

Really hope Getzlaf comes back. Love how that guy plays.

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02-11-2010, 11:25 AM
  #623
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
Edited some of the hostility out for you.

Sorry, I just get upset when I see people saying that some people should have been there when they don't back up their arguements on why. Stamkos had no spots available for him. He wasn't going to replace Crosby, Thornton, or Getzlaf, and he's not nearly as good defensively as Richards/Carter, which is what we needed for the PK.

Bah, you're just getting me started again. Maybe I'll go to the Torch thread and argue with Wetcoaster about why that old woman Nancy Green shouldn't be the one to light the flame.

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02-11-2010, 11:48 AM
  #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
Edited some of the hostility out for you.

Sorry, I just get upset when I see people saying that some people should have been there when they don't back up their arguements on why. Stamkos had no spots available for him. He wasn't going to replace Crosby, Thornton, or Getzlaf, and he's not nearly as good defensively as Richards/Carter, which is what we needed for the PK.

Bah, you're just getting me started again. Maybe I'll go to the Torch thread and argue with Wetcoaster about why that old woman Nancy Green shouldn't be the one to light the flame.
No worries and keep fighting the good fight. If I had more free time I would be debating the "fantasy hockey GMs" along with you.


Last edited by Frank the Tank: 02-11-2010 at 12:05 PM.
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02-11-2010, 12:03 PM
  #625
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The last thing I would do if I was Canada is to try and beat the Russians at what they do best.
More HF board mythology at work here.

8 Team Canada players are in the top 25 in NHL points. 4 Russians are.

5 more top 25 NHL point leaders didn't make the team.

Canada could've iced 13 of the top 25 NHL point scorers vs 4 Russians, and you are trying to tell me that Team Canada could not outmatch the Russians at run & gun hockey???? LOL FAIL

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