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Emery, sore left hip (February 7 update -- post #44)

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Old
02-10-2010, 02:33 PM
  #301
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Sorry guys these threads are hopeless

twisting words and not understanding for the win!

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02-10-2010, 05:00 PM
  #302
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Warning: Dont insult people even if you believe them to be trolls. Just let us handle it

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02-10-2010, 05:44 PM
  #303
IAN aka RYAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
Look guy was lazy in Ottawa. He had terrible habits in practice and off-ice. I am sure this leopard has not changed his spots. Goalie getting a ab-injury...Wow!!!that is a new one..He is not the answer in nets. But Homer and Lukko are working on some great contract extension..
1. This isnt Ottawa or Russia.
2. He may have had terrible habits, but none of the such has been said as of late by teammates or staff. Speculation on your part or just going on past problems?
3. Its not an ab-injury. Joint Injury. Completely different. Worlds different in fact.
4. I never said or implied he was the answer in net
5. Your post is completely on a different topic than my reply. Joint Problems have little to nothing to do with not training hard. Ab problems yes, but look back to #3.
6. Yeah...

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02-10-2010, 05:53 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAN aka RYAN View Post
1. This isnt Ottawa or Russia.
2. He may have had terrible habits, but none of the such has been said as of late by teammates or staff. Speculation on your part or just going on past problems?
3. Its not an ab-injury. Joint Injury. Completely different. Worlds different in fact.
4. I never said or implied he was the answer in net
5. Your post is completely on a different topic than my reply. Joint Problems have little to nothing to do with not training hard. Ab problems yes, but look back to #3.
6. Yeah...
You can decrease the likelihood of a torn labrum by stretching your groin regularly. When your legs are spread out and your groins aren't elastic enough it puts a lot of additional stress on the labrum. There are dancers, gymnasts and goalies who do full splits regularly and never tear theirs, mostly because they stretch regularly.

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02-10-2010, 05:54 PM
  #305
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hib problems are just due to Butterfly

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02-10-2010, 06:58 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
hib problems are just due to Butterfly
What's worse is that Emery relies more on athleticism than positioning so any issues with his hip are going to really affect him.

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02-11-2010, 01:40 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Paul Holmgren says the Flyers will shut down Ray Emery for three weeks to strengthen the area in his injured hip.
http://twitter.com/NHLFlyers

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02-11-2010, 01:45 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
You can decrease the likelihood of a torn labrum by stretching your groin regularly. When your legs are spread out and your groins aren't elastic enough it puts a lot of additional stress on the labrum. There are dancers, gymnasts and goalies who do full splits regularly and never tear theirs, mostly because they stretch regularly.
Nitty?

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02-11-2010, 02:54 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
You can decrease the likelihood of a torn labrum by stretching your groin regularly. When your legs are spread out and your groins aren't elastic enough it puts a lot of additional stress on the labrum. There are dancers, gymnasts and goalies who do full splits regularly and never tear theirs, mostly because they stretch regularly.
You can stretch all you want and still tear your labrum. You can never stretch and never tear your labrum. Yes, your right, but it still doesnt mean Emery did not train hard as they other poster was saying. For all we know, he could have been the most flexible guy ever and simply didnt stretch as good the day he tore his labrum. Stretching is a huge part of hockey, and im sure Emery stretches.

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02-11-2010, 04:28 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
Nitty?
Look at the way Nitty and Emery tend goal. It's night and day. Niittymaki spends half the game sliding around in the splits. A torn labrum is almost a matter of time playing like that. Emery on the other hand makes sure his knees are never more then 8 inches apart at any given time. If you tear a labrum playing like that, you probably could have prepared your body better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAN aka RYAN View Post
You can stretch all you want and still tear your labrum. You can never stretch and never tear your labrum. Yes, your right, but it still doesnt mean Emery did not train hard as they other poster was saying. For all we know, he could have been the most flexible guy ever and simply didnt stretch as good the day he tore his labrum. Stretching is a huge part of hockey, and im sure Emery stretches.
Some valid points, but I'm still not convinced the guy stretches adequately. What I am saying is just my suspicion, proceeding from what I am seeing. I don't know anything about his routine, but I have seen him try to spread out in a game and he can't. The guys as fast as a mongoose and as flexible as rebar.

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02-11-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post


Some valid points, but I'm still not convinced the guy stretches adequately. What I am saying is just my suspicion, proceeding from what I am seeing. I don't know anything about his routine, but I have seen him try to spread out in a game and he can't. The guys as fast as a mongoose and as flexible as rebar.
Yeah i agree, he isn't the most flexible of the bunch. It may be due to his style also. He seems to me to be more of a Hybrid goalie and doesn't rely on the spits and all out butterfly's. Or he might not stretch as well, like you said. All in the all, the guy has to get healthy and stay healthy. Whatever the problem may be.

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02-11-2010, 05:07 PM
  #312
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A lot of it simply comes down to body type. Some people are really flexible and some are not, even with pro athletes. Someone like Biron wasn't flexible at all when compared to Nitty. Emery seems to fall somewhere in the middle, but closer to Biron.

Stretching only goes so far, and when you put that kind of stress on you joints bad things can happen. Its simply not a matter of he didn't stretch enough, its far more bad luck then anything else. Look at the bright side, he's taking care of it know, so he doesn't end up missing even more time.

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02-11-2010, 05:18 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
A lot of it simply comes down to body type. Some people are really flexible and some are not, even with pro athletes.
With some work, anyone can be flexible. Different body types and bone shape don't become a restriction until you are already pretty darn flexible (which Emery certainly doesn't appear to be). Not to mention the fact that Ray is a pretty long and lean dude anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
Stretching only goes so far, and when you put that kind of stress on you joints bad things can happen. Its simply not a matter of he didn't stretch enough.
I'm suggesting it as a big contributing factor, not the only factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
its far more bad luck then anything else. Look at the bright side, he's taking care of it know, so he doesn't end up missing even more time.[/B]
The only way to take care of a torn labrum is to have surgery to have it repaired and the joint cleaned out. That's the only way to "have it taken care of". Rest just prevents it from getting worse.

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02-11-2010, 05:29 PM
  #314
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Ah, just for the record, your labrum is cartilage...and I'm of the belief that you can't really "stretch" cartilage. I'm sure some medical/science folk floating around could speak to this, but tearing your labrum isn't like tearing a muscle. This is much more about the wear and tear on the hip joint itself, and the pressure on the bone structure that you're applying (the purpose of the labrum is to keep the joint in place).

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02-11-2010, 05:37 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Ah, just for the record, your labrum is cartilage...and I'm of the belief that you can't really "stretch" cartilage. I'm sure some medical/science folk floating around could speak to this, but tearing your labrum isn't like tearing a muscle. This is much more about the wear and tear on the hip joint itself, and the pressure on the bone structure that you're applying (the purpose of the labrum is to keep the joint in place).
You're right you can't appreciably stretch cartilage, it also doesn't heal itself, which is why you have to get surgery to get it repaired. The reason the cartilage becomes more susceptible to tearing is because when you have poor flexibility in your groin and psoas muscles the mechanics of the butterfly become even more destructive to the joint. You know how Emery looks friggin wonky and unorthodox?

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02-11-2010, 05:42 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
You're right you can't stretch cartilage, it also doesn't heal itself, which is why you have to get surgery to get it repaired. The reason the cartilage becomes more susceptible to tearing is because when you have poor flexibility in your groin and psoas muscles the mechanics of the butterfly become even more destructive to the joint. You know how Emery looks friggin wonky and unorthodox?
I think that has more to do with horrible technique than poor flexibility...he's an athlete more than he is a "technical" goalie.

This theory of loose muscles leading to less stress on the hip joint also seems extremely counter-intuitive, and would like to see medical proof of it. If the musculature is tight, I would assume that it would be doing more to restrict and hold the hip joint closer to it's "natural" alignment, and, therefore, place less pressure on the hip joint.

I don't think the problem with these guys and their hips is flexibility...I think it's that they're doing something with their hip joint that the body isn't well designed to do...similar to pitchers in baseball and their shoulder. You can stretch all you want, you're still forcing the body to do unnatural motions with a joint that it isn't well adapted to doing...some folks have stronger hips/shoulders than others.

In baseball you avoid destroying the shoulder with mechanical adjustments...not stretching. The stretching helps the soft tissue, the mechanics help the joint structure.

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02-11-2010, 06:00 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think that has more to do with horrible technique than poor flexibility...he's an athlete more than he is a "technical" goalie.
The one begets the other begets the first. I couldn't tell you which came first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This theory of loose muscles leading to less stress on the hip joint also seems extremely counter-intuitive, and would like to see medical proof of it. If the musculature is tight, I would assume that it would be doing more to restrict and hold the hip joint closer to it's "natural" alignment, and, therefore, place less pressure on the hip joint.
In a sense you're right, the tight adductors are fighting the abnormal movement of the joint, but your abductors are pulling in an opposite direction, and the force of your body weight is sliding the knees out on ice. The issue comes when you try to force your leg to move unnaturally and the tight adductors start to restrict the motion: its either the adductor and/or psoas or the labrum that gives to allow for more motion (or none break and you just fall down on the ice). Ideally the adductors stop the motion and you just pull your leg back in and everything stays healthy (but then you get scored on, **** that).

In the instant that the labrum tears it allows the femur to rotate a teeny bit more and the hip to abduct to the side at a slightly larger angle, with out the need for the groin or psoas muscles to become any longer. Of course this is at the expense of allowing the socket and femur to touch directly (leading to arthritis and general sloppyness in the joint). In the instant that the labrum tears, it was either going to be the labrum or the groin and/or psoas muscles, and the labrum happened to be the weaker link (with respect to the specific loads being placed on the hip area at that moment). A lot of times it is the groin muscles and not the labrum that give, and goalies just get a groin injury.

So when your muscles have a greater range of motion, it allows you to move your leg in ways that will increase the net wear and tear on the labrum, but decreases the likelihood that it tears from on individual motion that attempts to exceed the limits of your groins flexability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I don't think the problem with these guys and their hips is flexibility...I think it's that they're doing something with their hip joint that the body isn't well designed to do
We agree, the joint's normal function is not to rotate and move the leg through the ranges of motion that goalies do. That is the root of goalies' hip problems, I wouldn't argue that. My original point was that proper preparation (stretching) goes a long way to help with that.


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