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Old
02-14-2010, 05:19 AM
  #26
Playmaker09
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Come on.. why is my proposal (last page)the only one on HF not to get some replies?

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02-14-2010, 05:27 AM
  #27
not quite yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
Cammalleri, Price/Halak (whoever they want), Pacioretty, Spacek

for

Backes, Berglund, Pietrangelo

Get an elite prospect, a big winger and a big centre. Basically all our needs. Losing Cammalleri hurts but Backes scored 30+ goals last year and plays physical. Not sure if STL wants to give up on that much youth though. And we still get to keep our first round pick, while saving tons of cap space.

Lineup

SK (1M) - Pleks (5M) - AK (3.25M)
Pouliot (2.5M) - Gomez (7.4M) - Gionta (5M)
3rd line winger w/ offensive upside - Berglund (1.2M)- Backes (2.5M) (finally... size and scoring depth)
Moen (1.5M) - Lapierre (0.7M) - Pyatt/White/Moore (1M)
D'Ago (0.5M)

Markov (5.75M) - OB (0.9M)
Hamrlik (5.5M) - Pietrangelo (3.2M)
Gill (2.25M) - Subban (0.9M)
Gorges (1.1M) (only cause I love the pairings)

Halak/Price (3.2M)
Vet backup (0.7M)

Total= about 56.7M (including a Laraque buyout)

So about 2M (and I think I was pretty generous with some of the contracts) left to sign a third liner. Maybe Steve Ott or Matt Cooke?

Anyway, that's my mini-rebuild without tanking to make everyone happy.
blues will not revamp their team like that.

blues have jake allen coming as well.

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Old
02-14-2010, 07:24 AM
  #28
Newhabfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker09 View Post
Come on.. why is my proposal (last page)the only one on HF not to get some replies?
I'll help you:

Option 1. Noone reads the HF boards threads

Option 2. Noone found your proposition worth of a reply

Option 3. There is a giant conspiracy on HF boards against you. Maybe outside the HF boards too.

Pick your choice.

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Old
02-14-2010, 07:34 AM
  #29
subbanged
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin Valero View Post
Goalie Situation:

Trade Carey Price, I really like Carey but I dont think he does well under the Canadiens atmosphere and will prosper somewhere else. Jaroslav Halak has repeadidly shown he deserves the #1 spot and Montreal can benefit more if they trade Price (value wise)

Defence

Trade away all the big slow and old defence. Get rid of all the older guys and make this a young mans team and build an identity on it

Forwards


Again, trade away all the older guys for PICKS .... build from the draft and young guys. Keep guys like Cammelleri though. Build it around Cammelleri and Subban and Halak.



Price need to be moved and will prosper somewhere else.





Please!!!
Just want to say in a rebuild you don't trade franchise potential ala Carey Price, also you trade Halak because Halak is ready now and we are not

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
All our good players are overpaid UFAs. That's a good sign it's time for a rebuild.
Just curious when are you gonna take "Fire Gainey now" out of your name?

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Old
02-14-2010, 07:40 AM
  #30
therealkoho
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Originally Posted by Smoopok View Post
If you were the Gm of another team would you honestly take on Spacek, Hammer or Gomez's Contract?
maybe Bobsled will get the GM's job in Atlanta, once Waddell is canned

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Old
02-14-2010, 08:23 AM
  #31
Melvin Udall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin Valero View Post
Goalie Situation:

Trade Carey Price, I really like Carey but I dont think he does well under the Canadiens atmosphere and will prosper somewhere else. Jaroslav Halak has repeadidly shown he deserves the #1 spot and Montreal can benefit more if they trade Price (value wise)

Defence

Trade away all the big slow and old defence. Get rid of all the older guys and make this a young mans team and build an identity on it

Forwards


Again, trade away all the older guys for PICKS .... build from the draft and young guys. Keep guys like Cammelleri though. Build it around Cammelleri and Subban and Halak.

Price need to be moved and will prosper somewhere else.

Please!!!


Personally, I'm in favour of doing it right - a complete REBUILD - let the team plummet to the bottom of the league and draft very well (if Habs scouts are capable of drafting well) for 3 or so years with top 5 draft picks.

The problem with your proposal is that - aside from Markov and (maybe) Suban who would want any of the Habs current defensemen?

The only worth while "keepers " up front would be Camallari, Gionta, Pleks, Pouliot and (maybe) the Kostitsyn brothers...which is why this newly rebuilt team is in a state of shambles.

Gainey already did a piss poor rebuild last summer and this is what we have.

Thank you Bob Gainey!



Last edited by Melvin Udall: 02-14-2010 at 01:46 PM.
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Old
02-14-2010, 08:54 AM
  #32
Habsfanatical
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Ok, last year went downhill after the injuries, that core was abandoned for this core and this core got INJURED. We've played 5 games or so as a fully healthy team.. We have Cams, AK, Pools out who will be scoring 30 goals regularly.. Markov was out for half a season, so that meant for everyone else to play more minutes and different roles.. If you normally play 15-18 mins and then are thrust into playing 22-25 mins a game for a long period of time, of course their going to get tired.

Cams-Pleks-AK
Pools-Gomez-Gio
Darche-Moore-Moen
White-Desh-Trotter
Markov-Subban
Hamrlik-Spacek
O'B-Gill/Gorges
Price
Halak

Doesn't look that bad eh!! Too bad we haven't seen that line up healthy!!

If anything, 1 of Hamrlik or Spacek gets dumped.. Pleks resigns.. Resign both goalies and have them split time better. We don't need to do a lot we just need to get HEALTHY IMO!!!

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Old
02-14-2010, 08:56 AM
  #33
subbanged
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfanatical View Post
Ok, last year went downhill after the injuries, that core was abandoned for this core and this core got INJURED. We've played 5 games or so as a fully healthy team.. We have Cams, AK, Pools out who will be scoring 30 goals regularly.. Markov was out for half a season, so that meant for everyone else to play more minutes and different roles.. If you normally play 15-18 mins and then are thrust into playing 22-25 mins a game for a long period of time, of course their going to get tired.

Cams-Pleks-AK
Pools-Gomez-Gio
Darche-Moore-Moen
White-Desh-Trotter
Markov-Subban
Hamrlik-Spacek
O'B-Gill/Gorges
Price
Halak

Doesn't look that bad eh!! Too bad we haven't seen that line up healthy!!

If anything, 1 of Hamrlik or Spacek gets dumped.. Pleks resigns.. Resign both goalies and have them split time better. We don't need to do a lot we just need to get HEALTHY IMO!!!
sal cap says high

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:20 AM
  #34
RE-HABS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin Valero View Post
Goalie Situation:

Trade Carey Price, I really like Carey but I dont think he does well under the Canadiens atmosphere and will prosper somewhere else. Jaroslav Halak has repeadidly shown he deserves the #1 spot and Montreal can benefit more if they trade Price (value wise)

Defence

Trade away all the big slow and old defence. Get rid of all the older guys and make this a young mans team and build an identity on it

Forwards


Again, trade away all the older guys for PICKS .... build from the draft and young guys. Keep guys like Cammelleri though. Build it around Cammelleri and Subban and Halak.



Price need to be moved and will prosper somewhere else.





Please!!!
You make it all sound so easy!

Good luck moving a good contract in trade now a days, compared to trying to move bad contracts too.

If your going to do a rebuild you would stick with the youngest goalie, and that would be PRICE.

Montreal is in a position with too many long term contracts of veteran players to go the rebuild route, smart management in trades and potential buyouts is what is going to have to happen with the development of younger and cheaper players taking spots on the roster too.

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:28 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
This team is dope. Habs management gives us some names to worship, mixes it with playoff hope, and injects it into our veins. Then there's a failure, an excuse or two, but the junkie keeps coming back for more.

The mediocrity is there, instilled now in 5 year contract terms, the profit is there too, this year's excuse (injuries) is already on the minds of the addicts. The dealer is happy.

A rebuild is tough to do, and might be impossible for the middle of the pack management team this organization is blessed with, but there really is no motivation for the dealer to improve the quality of the crack.
i don't know wether to laugh , or to cry ... bang on dude, bang on...

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:36 AM
  #36
Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
I've come to the conclusion that people on the habs board over react alot.

2 good games of subban and "he's god". 2 losses to the flyers and we have to re-build.

we've had as many injuries as any other team this year and yet we are in the thick of the playoff race.

remember that year we finished 1st in the east? that entire season we had 1 major injury that last 5 games if i remember and it was to Hamrlik. That's all. everyone else was healthy all year.

No one around here seems to realize the impact that mass injuries have on a club.

Too bad for the tankers: Markov, Andrei Kostitysn and Pouliot are all expected to play right after the Olympic break. Also, Cammalleri and Bergeron (two of our 5 most prolific points scorer) should also be back onboard for the home stretch.

If you take a look at our healthy! roster (http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/roster.htm) and take into account the age of our players... how can someone wish for a rebuild? I sure would add 1-2 big forwards upfront... but that’s all! Pierre Gauthier is right: the foundations are solid.

I can’t believe it: this team, despite al the injuries, is still in the race for a playoffs spot. Hail to the olympic break!


PS I hope the team’s doctor will keep Andrei Markov and Andrei Kostitsyn under close observation during the Olympics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
- hammer has proved to be a strong top 4 for us ... he plays with calm , passion , likes the city and the fans, has offensive flair and defensively , he's arguably our best and most complete dman imho. his salary ... oh well migh as well slap bob in the face one more time, but I'm really glad hammer joined us as a ufa and has played the way he has .

- spacek was brought here to be used as a point man on the pp and be a reliable top 4 guy ...(and in this case, what we paid for makes sense) the 1rst thing we did when he came, is ask a 35 years old to play on the right side, a side he was clearly not comfortable with. then again, one is entitled to ask this question ; why do we have 7 left dman on our team ? and then why do we ask a 35 year old to change some habbits that he developed over a successful nhl career ? ...

one thing I know, if it wasnt for hammer and spacek, we would be dead last in conference, asking ourselves if picking up jeff finger is the right thing to do. 18-20 mins a game ? they will be hailed as heroes, keep playing them 25 mins ? they'll show signs of fatigue at some point ...which they have... that olympic break is great imo.

Hamrlik and Spacek, if it becomes necessary, are, based on what you mentioned, "very moveable" imo. With Subban waiting in line (Habs need to make room for him), I would definitely package one of them away to obtain a big forward.


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 02-14-2010 at 09:44 AM.
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Old
02-14-2010, 09:40 AM
  #37
RE-HABS
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I think Fans need to realize that a full roster and healthy is quite lethal, and that to be in the playoff hunt with the injuries we have had and the lack of secondary scoring is quite a feat in itself.

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:47 AM
  #38
sheed36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Pewrsonally, I'm in favour of doing it right - a complete REBUILD - let the team plummet to the bottom of the league and draft very well (if Habs scouts are capable of drafting well) for 3 or so years with top 5 draft picks.

The problem with your proposal is that - aside from Markov and (maybe) Suban who would want any of the Habs current defensemen?

The only worth while "keepers " up front would be Camallari, Gionta, Pleks, Pouliot and (maybe) the Kostitsyn brothers...which is why this newly rebuilt team is in a stste of shambles.

Gainey already did a piss poor rebuild last summer and this is what we have.

Thank you Bob Gainey!

I can guarantee you that if Josh Gorges was on the market there would be quite a few teams who would want him...

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:48 AM
  #39
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No one will take on Gomer, Hammer, and Spacek's contract - like it ot not, we're stuck with this team.

Go forward with this roster - add the pieces, for the short term, we need and see where it takes us. In the meantime, rebuild management - add some talented amateur and pro scouts, change coach if PG sees someone better, and have the new coach pick his assistants.

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:55 AM
  #40
Habsfanatical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACCIDENT View Post
sal cap says high
So you missed where I said dump Spacek or Hamrlik then? Pleks should get 4ish a year.. Both goalies could get a Quick like contract for a TOTAL of around 3.5-4.. So say Pleks get 4 and the goalies get 3.75.. Dumping Hamrlik saves 5.5, Mara is gone, Metro gone, MAB gone, there's your $$ for the resigning of the previous 3 with some left over.. I never said we'd be further from the cap, I just think that we don't even know what we have yet because of injuries! I also forgot SK in the lines as well.
If we trade anyone in our top 6, we need another top 6 forward back or else we're stuck with trying to find someone to play up there again.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:03 AM
  #41
Em Ancien
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Hamrlik is quite movable, since he only has one more year on his deal.

I'm pretty sure a ton of young up and coming teams with a manageable cap situation would love to acquire a vet like Hammer to help out a young D corps while taking some of the pressure by playing quite a few mins (like LA did with Blake and Johnson).

Obviously, they won't pay a premium, but a 3rd rounder and a decent prospect could definately be brought back if Hammer was dealt this offseason.

Also, we can't afford to trade both Spacek and Hammer. We still need guys that can play some good mins and can groom younger guys. If we do trade Hammer and don't keep Gill (I don't know what they would do with him), somebody will need to play with Subban (and/or whoever else) and pick up the slack.


Last edited by Em Ancien: 02-14-2010 at 10:09 AM.
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Old
02-14-2010, 10:03 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
I think Fans need to realize that a full roster and healthy is quite lethal, and that to be in the playoff hunt with the injuries we have had and the lack of secondary scoring is quite a feat in itself.
EXACTLY!!! I've been saying this for months now.. And I hope you don't mind me using your idea that both goalies could get Quick(LA) like contracts, that was and is a great idea IMO!! Both are good, both are young and both will get better!!

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:07 AM
  #43
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Also, with Markov in the line up we're 15-8-3.. Over a full schedule that's 45-24-9 with 4 games left and 99 points.. Tell me again why we want to do another rebuild?

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Old
02-14-2010, 11:00 AM
  #44
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Hammer would be easy to trade. No problem at all.

That said, only way you trade hammer is if :

1) You have a better option there (there aren't that many better cheaper options that are available)
2) You go into rebuild mode
3) You are willing to take a hit on D to improve another spot on the team (could be resignining plekanec, or something else)

Now since we're trying to make the playoffs, it makes no sense to trade hammer at this juncture. Hammer is still a solid dman. But he's been overplayed because of injuries. I actually think a Hammer-Subban pairing would be quite nice for the remainder of the season, or next season.

EDIT:

BTW I'd like us to rebuild, but it's too late to do that this season IMO, might as well keep pushing for the playoffs.

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Old
02-14-2010, 11:08 AM
  #45
Kensai Akatsume Ryu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfanatical View Post
Also, with Markov in the line up we're 15-8-3.. Over a full schedule that's 45-24-9 with 4 games left and 99 points.. Tell me again why we want to do another rebuild?
Logical comments are not welcomed on a "panic button" thread.

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Old
02-14-2010, 11:43 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Kensai Akatsume Ryu View Post
Logical comments are not welcomed on a "panic button" thread.
Sorry, I meant to take my multi vitamin this morning and ended up that I took my logic pill hahaha..

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Old
02-14-2010, 12:34 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Pewrsonally, I'm in favour of doing it right - a complete REBUILD - let the team plummet to the bottom of the league and draft very well (if Habs scouts are capable of drafting well) for 3 or so years with top 5 draft picks.

The problem with your proposal is that - aside from Markov and (maybe) Suban who would want any of the Habs current defensemen?

The only worth while "keepers " up front would be Camallari, Gionta, Pleks, Pouliot and (maybe) the Kostitsyn brothers...which is why this newly rebuilt team is in a stste of shambles.

Gainey already did a piss poor rebuild last summer and this is what we have.

Thank you Bob Gainey!

Problem #1: Just like a list can be put together of good 2nd round picks (see Moore thread), you can also put together a list of early 1st round picks who were mediocre, if not outright flops.

Problem #2: Tanking cannot guarantee a team a 1st overall pick, since there is a draft lottery.

Problem #3: How are you going to get players and coaches to tank? Don't they want to do as well as possible so that they can earn a new/bigger contract?

Problem #4: Do the Molsons want to screw up their bottom line for 3 or so years until the team can be rebuilt? For those of you who think that the Canadiens would sell out anyway, I would just like to remind you that the last time the Habs were truly awful there was talk that Centre Bell was too big. They would also miss out on playoff money. Even last year, when there were only two home games, that is a lot of money.

BTW, it's interesting that of the four definite "keepers" that you list up front, three are guys who Bob Gainey picked up since the end of last season, two of whom he got "for nothing".

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Old
02-14-2010, 01:00 PM
  #48
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i agree with the rebuild idea.we are just to small and soft on whole with our forwards and our defence is too slow and soft.also as someone else mentioned the guys making the big bucks are not core players.they are just guys who bounce around to another team once their contract is up.hard to build a winner that way.the habs are just to easy to play against and are not built for the playoffs.the gainey plan did not work.we need to build our team from the ground up.focus our draft picks from the canadian juniors.

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Old
02-14-2010, 01:06 PM
  #49
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We need to trade for a guy like Jack Johnson quick.




Building from the goaltender out is the main key. Totally dismantle this organization and re build i say.

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Old
02-14-2010, 01:07 PM
  #50
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also trade Markov. He is our biggest asset and we can easily get 2 prospects and a pick for him.



Lookout for the future.

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