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Ray Shero today on 1250 ESPN radio @ 11:10am

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Old
02-14-2010, 06:23 PM
  #26
GlenngarryGlencross
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Ken Laird and Tab Douglas analyzing hockey and a possible trade for Poni? I doubt either of those guys watches a single NHL game that doesn't involve the Pens. They're way in over their head trying to analyze a trade for Poni, imo.

I remember last year when the Pens traded for Kunitz, Madden claimed Kunitz wasn't that great and was basically = to Pascal Dupuis.

Also, I agree with Phil Bourque, but I wouldn't just throw Gogo under the bus. The least productive spot on the PP is the D-Man opposite of Gonchar.

Season stats
Letang - PP TOI/G - 2:43 - 0 goals

Goligoski - PP TOI/G - 3:43 - 1 goal


To be fair, Gogo plays out of position on the PP. It's a tough spot for a lefty to play. The passes are rarely in your wheelhouse.
That's really sad, makes me nervous about our PP post-Gonchar if it happens.

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02-14-2010, 06:23 PM
  #27
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well since a 2nd round pick and a prospect couldn't get Poni moved, i guess thats the smart move to wait.

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02-14-2010, 08:10 PM
  #28
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No one knows if that is true. It's speculation. The same expectations of Antropov's return happened last year. They will get a 2 and a conditional pick if he resigns, or a 2 and a prospect who is years away from even be considered an NHL option.

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02-14-2010, 11:03 PM
  #29
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Just remembered a bit more.

Shero: I like the way we played in Washington. It was a great game, despite the loss. But I like the way we came out for that. And I like the way we raised our game for Detroit and Washington and Philly. I feel like we played well in those games. And Washington with the way they are playing is a good measuring stick for us, and I like the way we played.

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Old
02-15-2010, 12:23 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DekeShot View Post
That's really sad, makes me nervous about our PP post-Gonchar if it happens.
Well, Tanger & Gogo are both still young in age or NHL experience. Gonchar didn't have a breakout season scoring goals on the PP until he was 24 and that was his 4th full season in the league. Gogo is 24, but he's basically in his 1st full season. Letang is just 22 and Gonchar only had 3 PPG as a 22 year old.

Goligoski would also get to play his natural PP spot if/when Gonchar leaves so that would probably help him a lot. Pens need a big, accurate, right-handed point shot though. Hopefully they find a D-Man with one eventually. I'd even try a right-handed forward if they ever get one with a good shot.

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Old
02-15-2010, 08:24 AM
  #31
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I have faith in Goligoski. In the beginning of the season, you could see he had the natural skill, but the comfort was missing. If Gonchar does walk, there will be a step down for a bit, but I think Goligoski has what it takes to move over to the right.

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Old
02-15-2010, 08:37 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I have faith in Goligoski. In the beginning of the season, you could see he had the natural skill, but the comfort was missing. If Gonchar does walk, there will be a step down for a bit, but I think Goligoski has what it takes to move over to the right.
I do too.

Let's face it, with Gonchar our PP is horrendous right now. And even moving forward without him, a PP with Crosby and Malkin SHOULD be more than fine.

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02-15-2010, 09:08 AM
  #33
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If Shero did nothing it might be dissapointing but youd have to assume it was for the best.

If that were to happen I would be thinking our team could still do better heading into the playoffs then they are now. But we might not be as hot as last year and as dangerous.
Regardless if nothing is done at the deadline I think we will still be able to address problems in the offseason and be a better team, especially with around 9 million maybe coming off from Feds, Guerin and Gonchar?? Thats enough money IMO to get a Top 4 Dman and maybe a decent winger(even if its then in a trade).

Then hopefully Id hope we addressed enough that we wouldnt have all this deadweight and hadnt sold the farm and would be better off for it.

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Old
02-15-2010, 09:24 AM
  #34
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On Poni...

When he is on the guy is really good. He finishes his checks (not a lights out hitter though), has an innate ability to tip pucks on net, and passes well. He is also defensively responsible and backchecks hard every shift.

The problem is, he has 5-10 game stretches where he completely disappears. Which would be an entire series in the playoffs.

If he was the amazing player Leaf fans would have you believe, he would of been signed by Burke already, because trust me, the Leafs need fwds badly.

Basically I'm agt. this move if Shero has to give up a lot to land him... because you just don't know if he will show up or not.

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02-15-2010, 09:32 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
On Poni...

When he is on the guy is really good. He finishes his checks (not a lights out hitter though), has an innate ability to tip pucks on net, and passes well. He is also defensively responsible and backchecks hard every shift.

The problem is, he has 5-10 game stretches where he completely disappears. Which would be an entire series in the playoffs.

If he was the amazing player Leaf fans would have you believe, he would of been signed by Burke already, because trust me, the Leafs need fwds badly.

Basically I'm agt. this move if Shero has to give up a lot to land him... because you just don't know if he will show up or not.
Thanks, I know you watch most all Leafs games due to martial responsibilities.

I have seen a good handful of their games as well. And I definitely have caught his non factor games. He has hardly been noticeable when I have watched them, which granted hasn't been all their games. So good to hear from a non Leafs fan who sees him a lot.

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Old
02-15-2010, 11:23 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
I do too.

Let's face it, with Gonchar our PP is horrendous right now. And even moving forward without him, a PP with Crosby and Malkin SHOULD be more than fine.
This.

I get that Gonchar's been one of the top offensive blueliners of his generation. But he's not been playing like he's elite anymore and it's unlikely that he's going to have a surge at 36-37. If he sticks around, we might want to consider grooming his replacement now instead of waiting for the retirement paperwork to hit Shero's desk.

So, frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing some experimentation there without Gonch.

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Old
02-15-2010, 11:27 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
On Poni...

When he is on the guy is really good. He finishes his checks (not a lights out hitter though), has an innate ability to tip pucks on net, and passes well. He is also defensively responsible and backchecks hard every shift.

The problem is, he has 5-10 game stretches where he completely disappears. Which would be an entire series in the playoffs.

If he was the amazing player Leaf fans would have you believe, he would of been signed by Burke already, because trust me, the Leafs need fwds badly.

Basically I'm agt. this move if Shero has to give up a lot to land him... because you just don't know if he will show up or not.
I always thought of him as a moderately more talented Fedotenko.

I really don't see him being a typical Shero acquisition. Maybe if we didn't have Fedotenko on the roster, it'd make more sense.

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Old
02-15-2010, 11:32 AM
  #38
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More Talented Fedontekos are whats in our price range though, unless we're going to pony up for Whitney.

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Old
02-15-2010, 11:40 AM
  #39
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I always thought of him as a moderately more talented Fedotenko.

I really don't see him being a typical Shero acquisition. Maybe if we didn't have Fedotenko on the roster, it'd make more sense.
I guess in a sense they are similar in that they both disappear for long stretches... Feds is about the worst top 6 guy I can think of right now, and I watch a ton of hockey.

I'm starting to hope Shero just finds a decent winger he can pick up for a third rounder. I can't imagine it would take much to upgrade over the crap they are putting in their top 6 right now.

The asking price for guys like Poni and Whitney seems to be way out of line with their value.

Will Poni put the Pens over the top? No... simply no.

Will Whitney? Possibly... but is that worth a first and a prospect? I don't think so.

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Old
02-15-2010, 11:46 AM
  #40
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Yeah, in some ways, I'm kinda hoping we stay put on the forward front, just because I think the blueline is a more pressing concern, especially if there's not been a whole lot of progress on the Gonchar/Letang talks.

So, if we're gonna package assets for anything, part of me would love to see it for someone that is either signed through next year or a big name-soon-to-be UFA that we could sign if the plan is to retool the blueline.

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Old
02-15-2010, 12:54 PM
  #41
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I happen to agree with both Jiggy and Scott Burnside. It's why I've never really liked the idea of Ponikarovsky. Jiggy is right. He's like the girl with the curl. Most Leafs forwards were all alike, great for stretches but they tend to disappear. That's why Burke moved out Hagman and Stajan, Antropov last year and will likely move Ponikarovsky this year. Don Cherry doesn't get it. Why would you move a guy you desperately need? Because he's not as good as he appears.

Good players on lousy teams are never an easy read, but if Burke is peddling him (without firm replacements yet, and without a first-round pick in his backpocket), it speaks volumes. Burke could easily keep Ponikarovsky and try to improve his position in the standings to lessen the Kessel trade hit. If he is still looking to trade him, it says a lot.

I've always thought that Ponikarovsky is a complementary winger. Like Fedotenko (when playing well). Guerin, whatever you think of his game today, was more than a complementary winger when we acquired last season. He made an impact. Granted, it was a short stint and he's now far more complementary than impact winger, I don't see Ponikarovsky as that type of impact player at all. I could be wrong.

Will I be upset if we don't do ANYTHING? Not really. I mean, I am questioning a little why Martin Skoula wasn't waived before the break to save more money, but he's a No. 7 defenseman. Not a factor. And I think if we're still in the status quo, guys like Lovejoy, Caputi and N. Johnson could leapfrog over others currently on the team. As we get closer to the end of the season, the cap concerns will be lessened.

I will be far more angry if we make bad moves than no moves at all.

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Old
02-15-2010, 01:14 PM
  #42
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I'm hoping we don't get Poni as well. He's big but he seems soft to me. I'm hoping for Whitney because he is head and shoulders above the rest of the wingers available. He has a RH shot, Cup experience, and will instantly make our PP better. His NTC gives us a shot in getting him.

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02-15-2010, 01:17 PM
  #43
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I'm hoping we don't get Poni as well. He's big but he seems soft to me. I'm hoping for Whitney because he is head and shoulders above the rest of the wingers available. He has a RH shot, Cup experience, and will instantly make our PP better. His NTC gives us a shot in getting him.
Poni's not soft but he's by no means a deliverer of Crushing hits. We have guys like Kunitz and Cooke for delivering crushing hits on the forecheck now we need some wingers with hands.

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02-15-2010, 01:34 PM
  #44
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I always thought of him as a moderately more talented Fedotenko.

I really don't see him being a typical Shero acquisition. Maybe if we didn't have Fedotenko on the roster, it'd make more sense.
You took the words out of my mouth.

I have a hard time believing that Burke will get anything but a 2nd round pick out of a deal for Poni, regardless of what Hot Stove is saying. If a prospect is thrown in, they will be far away from a legit NHL option.

I believe Antropov was a better player, and he only fetched a 2nd rounder. Leafs fans have taken delusion to another level, IMO.

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02-15-2010, 01:37 PM
  #45
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I do too.

Let's face it, with Gonchar our PP is horrendous right now. And even moving forward without him, a PP with Crosby and Malkin SHOULD be more than fine.
How true is that though? I remember seeing the numbers semi-recently of our PP success with Gonchar and without. With him we were around the 18-19% success rate and without it was about 7-8%. Of course when Gonchar was out so was Malkin so that hurts those numbers a bit, but it's clear that no matter how poorly run the powerplay is, it's still about average with Gonchar in the lineup.

I wouldn't totally mind if Sarge left, but I wouldn't exactly be comfortable with Gogo and Letang running the powerplay. I would be fine with getting a veteran defenseman with some good offensive upside to log minutes on the PP like Aucoin, though. In fact I think that would be our best bet - we clearly can't afford to keep both Letang and Gonchar barring a miracle, and Letang has shown us lately why he is needed on this team. Meanwhile, Gonchar has shown the opposite.

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02-15-2010, 02:05 PM
  #46
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I will be far more angry if we make bad moves than no moves at all.
this is true! and i think ray feels the same way.(or at least i hope so)

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02-15-2010, 02:11 PM
  #47
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How true is that though? I remember seeing the numbers semi-recently of our PP success with Gonchar and without. With him we were around the 18-19% success rate and without it was about 7-8%. Of course when Gonchar was out so was Malkin so that hurts those numbers a bit, but it's clear that no matter how poorly run the powerplay is, it's still about average with Gonchar in the lineup.

I wouldn't totally mind if Sarge left, but I wouldn't exactly be comfortable with Gogo and Letang running the powerplay. I would be fine with getting a veteran defenseman with some good offensive upside to log minutes on the PP like Aucoin, though. In fact I think that would be our best bet - we clearly can't afford to keep both Letang and Gonchar barring a miracle, and Letang has shown us lately why he is needed on this team. Meanwhile, Gonchar has shown the opposite.
Having watched our PP all year, I'd say pretty true.

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02-15-2010, 02:39 PM
  #48
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How true is that though? I remember seeing the numbers semi-recently of our PP success with Gonchar and without. With him we were around the 18-19% success rate and without it was about 7-8%. Of course when Gonchar was out so was Malkin so that hurts those numbers a bit, but it's clear that no matter how poorly run the powerplay is, it's still about average with Gonchar in the lineup.

I wouldn't totally mind if Sarge left, but I wouldn't exactly be comfortable with Gogo and Letang running the powerplay. I would be fine with getting a veteran defenseman with some good offensive upside to log minutes on the PP like Aucoin, though. In fact I think that would be our best bet - we clearly can't afford to keep both Letang and Gonchar barring a miracle, and Letang has shown us lately why he is needed on this team. Meanwhile, Gonchar has shown the opposite.
Goligoski had 7 points in the 11 games he was in the lineup and Sarge was out. He was also a plus player, for what it's worth.

You can't put the below average powerplay while Sarge was out on Goligoski's shoulders. To be honest, I think Goligoski was the best powerplay guy we had in that time period. He was keeping pucks in, getting shots through, and dishing the puck around.

I think the lack of success has much more to do with no threat on the left side of the ice (Letang's spot), the lack of movement and surprise, and the fact that there isn't a legitimate option player in the slot area. There's something wrong there when Matt Cooke is able to out perform both Guerin and Staal when put in that position.

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02-15-2010, 02:59 PM
  #49
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Goligoski had 7 points in the 11 games he was in the lineup and Sarge was out. He was also a plus player, for what it's worth.

You can't put the below average powerplay while Sarge was out on Goligoski's shoulders. To be honest, I think Goligoski was the best powerplay guy we had in that time period. He was keeping pucks in, getting shots through, and dishing the puck around.

I think the lack of success has much more to do with no threat on the left side of the ice (Letang's spot), the lack of movement and surprise, and the fact that there isn't a legitimate option player in the slot area. There's something wrong there when Matt Cooke is able to out perform both Guerin and Staal when put in that position.
I'm not blaming anything on anybody, certainly not a borderline rookie in Goligoski. You're right, he looked decent at points when he ran the powerplay, but I wouldn't be comfortable seeing him QB our powerplay right now. I don't think he's quite ready, and Letang is better suited on the weak-side than anywhere else. Together they struggled a fair amount without Gonchar - that much was evident. Of course they're both very young so that's to be expected, but my point was that it would be wise to find a veteran replacement for Gonchar in the future. Nobody can truly replace everything he brings, but somebody to shoulder some of the load would be nice.

Your other point is certainly valid, too. We haven't really had a legitimate threat on the left side since Malone. Obviously a guy like Whitney would be ideal. He plays the left side, is right handed, can finish, is a good playmaker, creative stickhandler, etc. I really think the team would benefit a ton from him, but he's likely out of our price range which is a shame.

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02-15-2010, 03:05 PM
  #50
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Whitney's also a very short term solution. There's no way we'd be able to afford him in July no matter what we spent to acquire him, I think.

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