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Old
02-15-2010, 10:34 AM
  #101
otto bond
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This is what I would do.

Keep Gomez and Gionta, no one will take Gomez with that contract. He is a good player making star money. Keep Cammy, Plekanec, Pouliot and the Kostitsyn Bros.
Lapierre-Trade
D'Ago-Trade
Spacek-trade if possible
Trade Hamrlik, I sure a team will take this guy.
Keep Gorges
Keep OB
Let Mara, Moore, Metro, Darch, MAB walk.

So for now we have this

Poo-Gomez-Gionta...is a good line and they will be a good line again
Cammy-Plekanec-Andrei what a line this guys made. Looks good enought to keep
**-**-Sergei we need a good sized center and winger with Skills to be on this line with Sergei. I will Post my idea later
Moen-**-White A banging center is needed

I will get to the Defence shortly.

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Old
02-15-2010, 10:40 AM
  #102
Patty Roy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Get rid of this old, slow D squad. And add grit to the bottom six forwards.
Honestly this basically sums it up. I think that if our top 6 forwards can stay reasonably healthy next season, they will be dangerous. Our bottom 6 is too inexperienced and too small to get the job done. We need to add grit that can play and a tough guy to take care of business when need be.

Looking at the upcoming UFAs, i see guys like Steve Ott, Colby Armstrong and Evgeny Artyukhin that could add size and grit to our line up and goons like Boogaard, Belak, Ivanans, McGratton and Thornton that could take care of the fighting.

Defensively i think that Markov, Gorges, O'Byrne and Subban are good guys to kind of build around. We are definitely lacking a real good #2, but that will be tough to come buy. I believe that 2 of the 3 vets (Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill) have got to go for next season. Personally i would lean towards keeping Spacek, and trading the other two.

I believe that if we let most of our UFAs walk (Moore, Metro, MAB, Mara) and we find a way to drop Hamrlik (preferably by trade, worst case by buyout) and possibly Gill, we shouldn't have much trouble keeping our RFAs, signing Plekanec to 5 million per, and adding 2-3 UFAs like Artyukhin, Ott, possibly a depth defenceman and a goon.

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Old
02-15-2010, 12:30 PM
  #103
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I sincerily don't agree. The Habs have been 15-8-3 with Markov in the lineup, which is about the same win% average the team's had with Markov in the lineup since the 05-06 season and on the opposite side, the team's been 14-20-3 without him, as in the past, the team was never able to play ,500 hockey without Markov, he's that important. And in those 26 games with Markov, we had other injuries. The Habs have had more injuries than most of the teams out there. 3 out of our 4 best snipers are out at the moment, all 4 of them will have missed 20+ games each this season. The defense has had more games missed than any other team, look it up.

I have no doubt that a healthy Habs team could do very well, and even better if Subban can keep it up.

The only things we need to change are inevitable anyway, as Mara, Gill, Hammer and Spacek will all be gone in a matter of 2 years, but the remaining core is very solid, what will determine how good we will be, is to see how the void will be filled. But already having Markov, Subban, Gorges and O'byrne to work with, what could be added could turn us into a dominant team, as we'll have plenty of money to go around with the 13 mil of cap space the other guys will leave behind.

The injury bug is bound to have a let down somewhen.
No team is ever 100% healthy.

We were pretty much healthy in January and got completely smoked. There's no reason to believe this will be any different without radical changes to our lineup. We aren't terrible but we're not good either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Price is getting everything he needs. This season he is getting pushed by Halak...which was what he needed 2 years ago instead of trading away Huet. It's going to be easier for Subban to develop elswhere also, should we trade him away too?

All you HF "blow it up" fans don't live in the real world. NHL GM's don't even have this option unless their team is 10 oir more points out of the playoffs at the deadline.
Florida just issued a press release outlining how they were going to work towards building a winning team rather than going for short term gains. They they ripped us off for a 2nd round pick.

Other teams rebuild and are usually rewarded for it. You just need ownership that's willing to build a winner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When you consider all the injuries this team had had and the fact that they still sit in a playoff spot after 60+ games is nothing short of heroic...but "loyal" Hab fans want to "blow it up" and trade everybody away. I guess we have quite the fans in Montreal.
We aren't sitting in a playoff spot. We have a couple of teams who are one point behind and have multiple games in hand.

As for us being healthy, yes we might make the playoffs if we were healthy. But that's due to the goaltending. We're 25th in goals for despite playing more games than anyone. Do you honestly attribute this soley to injuries? We can't win a game in regulation and we don't score unless we're on a power play. We have one of the smallest, softest cores in the league.

And I'm sorry but I consider myself a better fan than you. I actually want us to win a cup. You're happy with 8th place finishes. Don't slam the rebuilders for wanting something better out of their team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Honestly this basically sums it up. I think that if our top 6 forwards can stay reasonably healthy next season, they will be dangerous. Our bottom 6 is too inexperienced and too small to get the job done. We need to add grit that can play and a tough guy to take care of business when need be.
Our top six is small, soft and inconsistent without even one point per game player on it. Why do you think that will change by fixing the bottom six?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Looking at the upcoming UFAs, i see guys like Steve Ott, Colby Armstrong and Evgeny Artyukhin that could add size and grit to our line up and goons like Boogaard, Belak, Ivanans, McGratton and Thornton that could take care of the fighting.

Defensively i think that Markov, Gorges, O'Byrne and Subban are good guys to kind of build around. We are definitely lacking a real good #2, but that will be tough to come buy. I believe that 2 of the 3 vets (Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill) have got to go for next season. Personally i would lean towards keeping Spacek, and trading the other two.

I believe that if we let most of our UFAs walk (Moore, Metro, MAB, Mara) and we find a way to drop Hamrlik (preferably by trade, worst case by buyout) and possibly Gill, we shouldn't have much trouble keeping our RFAs, signing Plekanec to 5 million per, and adding 2-3 UFAs like Artyukhin, Ott, possibly a depth defenceman and a goon.
You honestly think that by tweaking the team rather than making major moves, we can become contenders?


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 02-15-2010 at 12:41 PM.
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Old
02-15-2010, 12:42 PM
  #104
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No team is ever 100% healthy.

We were pretty much healthy in January and got completely smoked. There's no reason to believe this will be any different without radical changes to our lineup. We aren't terrible but we're not good either.

Florida just issued a press release outlining how they were going to work towards building a winning team rather than going for short term gains. They they ripped us off for a 2nd round pick.

Other teams rebuild and are usually rewarded for it. You just need ownership that's willing to build a winner.

We aren't sitting in a playoff spot. We have a couple of teams who are one point behind and have multiple games in hand.

As for us being healthy, yes we might make the playoffs if we were healthy. But that's due to the goaltending. We're 25th in goals for despite playing more games than anyone. Do you honestly attribute this soley to injuries? We can't win a game in regulation and we don't score unless we're on a power play. We have one of the smallest, softest cores in the league.

And I'm sorry but I consider myself a better fan than you. I actually want us to win a cup. You're happy with 8th place finishes. Don't slam the rebuilders for wanting something better out of their team.

Our top six is small, soft and inconsistent without even one point per game player on it. Why do you think that will change by fixing the bottom six?

You honestly think that by tweaking the team rather than making major moves, we can become contenders?

What does Florida issuing a press release have to do with the Habs?

You're right, my only goal as a Habs fan is to finish 8th every year, that's my Stanley Cup

Contrary to what you might think, going from last place to winning a cup in 3-4 years is the exception, not the rule, but on HF, it's all about the "blow it up and tank" dream.

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Old
02-15-2010, 01:03 PM
  #105
Patty Roy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You honestly think that by tweaking the team rather than making major moves, we can become contenders?
Contenders? No.

I believe that if we improve the role players on our team, bring in more toughness and have a little more luck in the health department next season, i could see us being a 5/6 seed in the East.

I was trying to be slightly realistic with my "re-tweaking" of the lineup. Of courses bigger changes would need to be made to get us into that upper echelon.

If you want to get radical...along with my other moves i might suggest the following...
  • Deal Gomez and one of our goaltenders to Tampa for LeCavalier + change
  • Deal the Kostitsyn brothers to Florida for Nathan Horton
  • Trade Gill for a pick at the deadline and sign Dan Hamhuis.

Pouliot-LeCavalier-Gionta
Cammalleri-Plekanec-Horton
Ott-Lapierre-Artyukhin
Moen-Pyatt-White

Markov-O'Byrne
Hamhuis-Subban
Spacek-Gorges

It's all fantasy territory here, its not like i think any of this will happen in a million years, however i do believe that there is opportunity for improvement with a bit of tweaking here and there, but obviously we would have to gut 80% of the players Gainey brought in this past summer if we are ever going to hope to be in the top 3 in the East.

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Old
02-15-2010, 01:46 PM
  #106
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I think everyone can agree the current system under Martin blows. Its not even close to the same that Carbo employed as you can easily tell the difference. The small,fast habs look governed except the first line. Before everyone was skating fast, getting first to the puck. If your going to play a slower game your gonna need some grittier players as has been stated. Your just asking for it with the way the system is and especially with injuries its just showing us how bad the system really is. You def need to mix it up between size and speed and come to a median somewhere.

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Old
02-15-2010, 02:27 PM
  #107
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IMO there is absolutely no need for a full-on rebuild. Even though this season hasn't really turned out how we might have wanted, there's still a ton to love about this edition of Les Habs.

Honestly I think the real problem lies in coaching, but that's another subject for another thread.

For our forwards, I'm fairly happy with our top 2 lines. I would like to see a big scoring forward in the top-6, but who wouldn't? Once our forwards have the puck in enemy territory, they're fine. The problem seems to be getting there, which IMO suggests the problem is at D. Having people play on their off-sides isn't helping, nor is our lack of speed and youth on D. I'd like to see Subban brought up full-time, maybe not this season but definitely in 10-11. Markov and Gorges are both satisfactory, as is Hamrlik when he's not being overworked. Gill, I'm a little iffy on but I think he does fine as a #6/PK specialist. The weak link is Spacek, he should be dumped however possible in favor of a puck-moving top4 dman.

The other problem is our bottom 6. Moen and Moore are OK by me, and Laps would serve well as 4th line C. Outside of them, we are in desperate need of reinforcement on these bottom lines. I'd give some of the Dogs another chance to prove themselves on these lines.

so in review:
- new coach
- top 6 scoring forward with size
- puck-moving top4 dman
- bolster bottom lines with hard-working, gritty players. we could also use a good defensive forward for our bottom lines

all in all....easier said than done

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Old
02-15-2010, 03:05 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake5 View Post
so in review:
- new coach
- top 6 scoring forward with size
- puck-moving top4 dman
- bolster bottom lines with hard-working, gritty players. we could also use a good defensive forward for our bottom lines

all in all....easier said than done
I think we have that already with AK and Pouliot. In fact I can't wait to see both in the lineup at the same time. We'll be much tougher to play agaisnt.

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Old
02-15-2010, 03:13 PM
  #109
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What does Florida issuing a press release have to do with the Habs?
Nothing.

It's just an example that you were wrong about teams recognizing that they aren't good enough to win and doing something about it. Washington did this too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You're right, my only goal as a Habs fan is to finish 8th every year, that's my Stanley Cup
Well then don't go criticizing fans who want us to actually build a winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Contrary to what you might think, going from last place to winning a cup in 3-4 years is the exception, not the rule, but on HF, it's all about the "blow it up and tank" dream.
There are 30 teams in the league. Only one can win every year. The vast majority have been rebuilding clubs.

Rebuilding won't guarantee you a winner but it improves your odds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Contenders? No.

I believe that if we improve the role players on our team, bring in more toughness and have a little more luck in the health department next season, i could see us being a 5/6 seed in the East.
Maybe.

And why bother with this? Why shoot for sixth place?

Seriously, our players will be one year older after next year's supposed sixth place finish and we won't be any closer to a cup. Why go this route when we could bite the bullet and actually try to build with elite young prospects?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
I was trying to be slightly realistic with my "re-tweaking" of the lineup. Of courses bigger changes would need to be made to get us into that upper echelon.

If you want to get radical...along with my other moves i might suggest the following...
  • Deal Gomez and one of our goaltenders to Tampa for LeCavalier + change
  • Deal the Kostitsyn brothers to Florida for Nathan Horton
  • Trade Gill for a pick at the deadline and sign Dan Hamhuis.

Pouliot-LeCavalier-Gionta
Cammalleri-Plekanec-Horton
Ott-Lapierre-Artyukhin
Moen-Pyatt-White

Markov-O'Byrne
Hamhuis-Subban
Spacek-Gorges

It's all fantasy territory here, its not like i think any of this will happen in a million years, however i do believe that there is opportunity for improvement with a bit of tweaking here and there, but obviously we would have to gut 80% of the players Gainey brought in this past summer if we are ever going to hope to be in the top 3 in the East.
Even if we did what you said, I still don't see us as a winning team. Do you?

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Old
02-15-2010, 03:48 PM
  #110
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Nothing.

It's just an example that you were wrong about teams recognizing that they aren't good enough to win and doing something about it. Washington did this too.

Well then don't go criticizing fans who want us to actually build a winner.


There are 30 teams in the league. Only one can win every year. The vast majority have been rebuilding clubs.

Rebuilding won't guarantee you a winner but it improves your odds.

Maybe.

And why bother with this? Why shoot for sixth place?

Seriously, our players will be one year older after next year's supposed sixth place finish and we won't be any closer to a cup. Why go this route when we could bite the bullet and actually try to build with elite young prospects?

Even if we did what you said, I still don't see us as a winning team. Do you?
I'm not criticizing fans for wanting a winner. I'm criticizing fans for always looking at the glass half empty when it comes to our players and their prformances and taking a glass half full opinion of most other players in the NHL.

...also for having these unrealistic pie in the sky ideas about "blowing it up" or "tanking" things that don't happen in real life NHL, and definitely not realistic in Montreal.

So you think sucking for 5 years is realistic just to "improve your odds".

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Old
02-15-2010, 03:58 PM
  #111
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If we rebuild, we would have to trade assets for prospects and draft picks. Our team would have to be younger in this respect. Look at a team like the coyotes! They are a young team with some veteran help. They lost a lot but they are now a contending team. If they continue with good drafting and good asset management they can continue to be a successful team. IMO our defense is old. Our young defensemen are not top 4 material(ob, Gorges). We have up and coming defensemen in subban and weber whom might be top 4 potential. We lost Mcdough for Gomez and now we lost a second rounderfor dom freakin moore.

So looks like this GM won't go for a rebuild and will waste our assets for more useless assets. We have some potential prospects that could do very well for us. Our best prospect that we've home grown that urned out good is Tomas P. Markov too is another great one we produced. Though should we give them up for the future? Should we trade gionta, Cam and our other UFA signings to rebuild? Or should we tweak our team a bit more. I still think our bottom 6 is weak and our defense is old and struggling.

We need draft picks and prospects. Build around a young team. What gainey did was buiuld around an aging group.

2 Years of top 5 picks can definately give us a big boost. With the prospects we already have. Just make them play in the NHL. They will most likely look more interesting. Tell the fans that it is a new ERA and we are trying something different.

Next year I'd like to see how the maple leafs would look like. The defense looks pretty good and they can make some trades for forwards and FA signings. Imagine if they can land pleks and Kovalchuk? They seem to be the most interesting team to watch. They also have 2 players in the top 7 in Shenn and Kadri.

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Old
02-15-2010, 04:16 PM
  #112
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'm not criticizing fans for wanting a winner. I'm criticizing fans for always looking at the glass half empty when it comes to our players and their prformances and taking a glass half full opinion of most other players in the NHL.
What do you want us to do? Do you want us to say that we're great when we aren't? We're not a great team man, that's just plain true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
...also for having these unrealistic pie in the sky ideas about "blowing it up" or "tanking" things that don't happen in real life NHL, and definitely not realistic in Montreal.
1. Stop using "tanking" it's not an accurate depiction of what anyone is suggesting.
2. You're wrong. Teams rebuild and Ted Leonsis has gone so far as to put it into a 10 point plan. Was that "pie in the sky" too?
3. It's as realistic in Montreal as anywhere, in fact more so. Unlike other clubs we can afford to do this. All that's required is the will to do it. We have new ownership now so who know's what they're going to do about this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So you think sucking for 5 years is realistic just to "improve your odds".
I don't think we have to "suck for 5 years" with the prospects and trading chips that we already have. We're much further down the road than where those other clubs were.

I do know that if we don't do anything though, we're probably looking at staying mediocre for the considerable future so what do we have to lose here besides trying to compete for 8th place every year?

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Old
02-15-2010, 04:18 PM
  #113
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We don't have any cap space because of bums like Hamrlik and Spacek.

At least Gomez is a proven winner an playoff performer. At least Gionta brings stability and work ethic. What do Hamrlik and Spacek bring to the table?
i agree about Gomez, his contract is WAY too high but some nights he is the only person making **** happen
Spacek & Hamrlik - Avg age = 35 yrs with total salaries = 9.3 million a year...sigh

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Old
02-15-2010, 04:29 PM
  #114
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Certain teams are in an enviable position, with a nucleus of YOUNG superstars who'll be with them for years. The Habs don't have theirs yet.

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02-15-2010, 04:35 PM
  #115
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I would like to see a change in our defense and our bottom six that make our team look like this when everyone is healthy. That would give us 2 nice scoring line, a good two-way line and a great grinding line. The defense would be way more mobile and physical, also with Kubina and his great right handed shot it would be money on the powerplay. I don't think it is really realis, but we would be much better IMO.

Cammalleri-Plekanec-Akost
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta
Skost-Moore-Armstrong/Ott/Bernier/Torres/Moss/Glencross
Jacques-Lapierre-Moen
White

Markov-O'byrne
Seidenberg-Kubina
Gorges-Subban

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02-15-2010, 04:36 PM
  #116
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Hammer and Spacek are gonna leave out a lot of salary. Hammer as soon as July 2011, or before if he gets traded.

This freed-up cap space could be used to sign one of Chara, Kaberle, Niedermayer, Gonchar (or others)....

Add this D to Markov, Subban, Gorges, with our current top 6 and two goalies, and we'll be pretty close to a contender.

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02-15-2010, 04:46 PM
  #117
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I wonder what it would take to rebuild the fan-base....
A mad scientist, and a whole lot of tweaking of the 'intelligence' genes.

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Old
02-15-2010, 05:29 PM
  #118
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
What do you want us to do? Do you want us to say that we're great when we aren't? We're not a great team man, that's just plain true.


1. Stop using "tanking" it's not an accurate depiction of what anyone is suggesting.
2. You're wrong. Teams rebuild and Ted Leonsis has gone so far as to put it into a 10 point plan. Was that "pie in the sky" too?
3. It's as realistic in Montreal as anywhere, in fact more so. Unlike other clubs we can afford to do this. All that's required is the will to do it. We have new ownership now so who know's what they're going to do about this?


I don't think we have to "suck for 5 years" with the prospects and trading chips that we already have. We're much further down the road than where those other clubs were.

I do know that if we don't do anything though, we're probably looking at staying mediocre for the considerable future so what do we have to lose here besides trying to compete for 8th place every year?
We may not be great, but we are a whole lot better than some on here would have you believe. You can't continuously lose key players for extended period and not have it affect your record. You can't tell me that if we had a "normal" level of injuries instead of the "avalanche" level we have seen so far this year that we wouldn't have 8-10 more points in the standings and things would be looking a whole lot brighter.

We may not have a top 5 team, but when healthy it's as good as anybody after the elite top 5-6-7 teams at the top.

Why should I stop using "tanking" it's the most popular word on HF boards. How else do you describe a team in a playoff spot trading away veteran assets for picks and young palyers that won't contribute right away? Nobody in their right mind does that in any market, unless they have a star player they can't afford to lose(Kovalchuk).

What was Leonsis' 10 point plan and when did it start? I doubt it involved taking a playoff bound team and trying to make it suck to the point where they would miss the playoffs and draft 1st or 2nd overall. When he dealy Jagr it was because he had a huge contract and was pouting, not producing, NYR was the only team taht wanted him so they basically gave him away. Lang and Gonchar were upcoming UFA's so they traded them...they were not making the playoffs even with them. Plus they were cutting salaries to sell them team if memory serves.

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Old
02-15-2010, 05:31 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by HockeyWarrior View Post
I would like to see a change in our defense and our bottom six that make our team look like this when everyone is healthy. That would give us 2 nice scoring line, a good two-way line and a great grinding line. The defense would be way more mobile and physical, also with Kubina and his great right handed shot it would be money on the powerplay. I don't think it is really realis, but we would be much better IMO.

Cammalleri-Plekanec-Akost
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta
Skost-Moore-Armstrong/Ott/Bernier/Torres/Moss/Glencross
Jacques-Lapierre-Moen
White

Markov-O'byrne
Seidenberg-Kubina
Gorges-Subban
How would Kubina be an upgrade on Hamrlik? Yes he's better on PP but much worse the other 85% of the time.

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02-15-2010, 05:33 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey View Post
Certain teams are in an enviable position, with a nucleus of YOUNG superstars who'll be with them for years. The Habs don't have theirs yet.
Pittsburgh is the only team with more than one superstar, but the cap hits are rising(17.4 mil for Crosby and Malkin, 2 years ago it was 7.5 mil) so the situation is not as enviable as it was last year or 2 years ago..

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02-15-2010, 05:35 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post

Why should I stop using "tanking" it's the most popular word on HF boards. How else do you describe a team in a playoff spot trading away veteran assets for picks and young palyers that won't contribute right away? Nobody in their right mind does that in any market, unless they have a star player they can't afford to lose(Kovalchuk).
Plus even in that case, Atlanta received Oduya and Bergfors who both contributed immediately. And given that Kovy is really an individualist and not a team player, it may not be surprising to learn that the Thrashers have done as well since the trade as they were doing before!

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02-15-2010, 05:41 PM
  #122
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How would Kubina be an upgrade on Hamrlik? Yes he's better on PP but much worse the other 85% of the time.
I see it more like Seidenberg is an upgrade to Hamrlik, because they bring the same thing to the team but Seidenberg is youger and he got more speed. Kubina is more an upgrade to Spacek and is not at the level of Harmlik in is own-end but he is not bad either not anymore.

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02-15-2010, 07:24 PM
  #123
Lafleurs Guy
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We may not be great, but we are a whole lot better than some on here would have you believe. You can't continuously lose key players for extended period and not have it affect your record. You can't tell me that if we had a "normal" level of injuries instead of the "avalanche" level we have seen so far this year that we wouldn't have 8-10 more points in the standings and things would be looking a whole lot brighter.
I think we'd be somewhat better and maybe inside the playoffs. But the truth is that even when we were healthy we were drastically outplayed. The only reason we're as good as we are is because of spectacular goaltending. Otherwise we'd be competing for last place instead of 10th. (And for all practical purposes we are in 10th place right now when you factor in the games played.)
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We may not have a top 5 team, but when healthy it's as good as anybody after the elite top 5-6-7 teams at the top.
How are we just as good? We are 25th in offense and can't win a game in regulation. We've got no size or grit.

We were considered a bubble playoff team coming into this year, we're on the bubble now and we'll be on the bubble next year.
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why should I stop using "tanking" it's the most popular word on HF boards.
Because it's inaccurate. It implies losing on purpose and telling your players to 'tank' the game. It's illegal and nobody would suggest that we do this.Players and coaches won't lose games on purpose and no GM would ask them to.
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How else do you describe a team in a playoff spot trading away veteran assets for picks and young palyers that won't contribute right away?
I'd describe it as 'rebuilding'. It's a smart thing to do when you know that you can't win with your current roster.

Should we not have traded Ralph Backstrom for the pick that turned into Guy Lafleur? That pick didn't contribute right away did it? Losing Backstrom hurt in the short term but overall it was a smart move.

I'm not expecting us to be able to pull off something like this again but if we follow your line of thinking, the Lafleur trade was a bad move.

What's your problem with this?

And why does trading a 2nd rounder for another marginal NHLer who is a UFA make sense? Why make these kinds of short term moves that are designed for nothing other than an 8th place finish and 1st round exit? Don't you want us to win another cup someday? How do you propose we do this? Short term moves aren't going to work with the core we have.
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Nobody in their right mind does that in any market, unless they have a star player they can't afford to lose(Kovalchuk).

What was Leonsis' 10 point plan and when did it start? I doubt it involved taking a playoff bound team and trying to make it suck to the point where they would miss the playoffs and draft 1st or 2nd overall.
What makes you think we were (and are) playoff bound?

After last year, Gainey blew up the team when he realized that Kovalev, Koivu and company weren't going to win. Why go with another core that is marginally better (if at all) and try for 8th place? We knew we couldn't win then and we know we can't win now.

Why didn't we just rebuild the way other clubs have?
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When he dealy Jagr it was because he had a huge contract and was pouting, not producing, NYR was the only team taht wanted him so they basically gave him away. Lang and Gonchar were upcoming UFA's so they traded them...they were not making the playoffs even with them. Plus they were cutting salaries to sell them team if memory serves.
The man rebuilt when he knew his team couldn't win. He was explicit about this. You've said that teams don't rebuild and you were wrong. Don't be surprised when that club eventually wins the cup and we're sitting here still arguing about whether or not we might make 8th place again.

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Old
02-15-2010, 07:27 PM
  #124
Ozymandias
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With Markov this season, 15-8-3

Without Markov this season, 14-20-3

Nuff said

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Old
02-15-2010, 07:31 PM
  #125
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post


With Markov this season, 15-8-3
And again, we went 6 for 7 against the easiest teams in the league on his return.
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Without Markov this season, 14-20-3

Nuff said
And when we played against decent teams with pretty much a full roster in January we got smoked.

'Nuff said.

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