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Ray Shero today on 1250 ESPN radio @ 11:10am

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Old
02-15-2010, 03:43 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
Whitney's also a very short term solution. There's no way we'd be able to afford him in July no matter what we spent to acquire him, I think.
That is what makes this all so tricky. Deciding if t he team is just a piece or two away from repeating, and what the price tag for that can be.

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02-15-2010, 03:50 PM
  #52
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I have faith in Goligoski. In the beginning of the season, you could see he had the natural skill, but the comfort was missing. If Gonchar does walk, there will be a step down for a bit, but I think Goligoski has what it takes to move over to the right.
I agree with this too, along with WVP. This kid is the future. If Shero had a major issue in his development, he would have sent him out or kept him in WBS for the beginning of the season. Once GoGo catches his stride again, I see him being very productive.

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02-15-2010, 04:09 PM
  #53
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I am not even sure how I feel about Goligoski, long term. But I just don't see us moving one of our two signed Dmen until we figure out who will make up our blue-line corps next season.

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02-15-2010, 04:31 PM
  #54
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I'm not blaming anything on anybody, certainly not a borderline rookie in Goligoski. You're right, he looked decent at points when he ran the powerplay, but I wouldn't be comfortable seeing him QB our powerplay right now. I don't think he's quite ready, and Letang is better suited on the weak-side than anywhere else. Together they struggled a fair amount without Gonchar - that much was evident. Of course they're both very young so that's to be expected, but my point was that it would be wise to find a veteran replacement for Gonchar in the future. Nobody can truly replace everything he brings, but somebody to shoulder some of the load would be nice.

Your other point is certainly valid, too. We haven't really had a legitimate threat on the left side since Malone. Obviously a guy like Whitney would be ideal. He plays the left side, is right handed, can finish, is a good playmaker, creative stickhandler, etc. I really think the team would benefit a ton from him, but he's likely out of our price range which is a shame.
In my experience, there are things a player learns from watching, and there are things a player learns by doing. Goligoski playing the left point on the powerplay is not going to teach him how to play the right. I know this for a fact. The only way Goligoski gets better at manning the left point is by playing the left point.

Sure, he might get burned a few times, and the unit may sputter (probably not as bad as it already is), but he has shown enough, IMO, to warrant him getting a fair shake in that position, and has shown enough skill and intangibles to prove that he can handle it if given the chance.

I put the weight on Bylsma & Co.'s shoulders to bring a powerplay strategy that works to Goligoski's strength which may not be the same as Sarge's. Maybe that requires a shift in personnel. I have no idea. I just know I'm not about to bring in a veteran to run a powerplay when we have a kid who has proven to be capable if given the chance.

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02-15-2010, 04:43 PM
  #55
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Is Goligoski's best PP position the right? I am not sold on that idea. He doesn't have a howitzer, and usually prefers the wrister. Nothing wrong with that, but you don't have to play the right side to get the puck on net. Niedermayer doesn't have a howitzer, and he can play either PP position. Markov isn't a great right-side PP blue-liner, but he's just about the best on the left side.

I think Goligoski has what it takes from a cerebral standpoint to quarterback our PP. Not sure he has the big shot to be on the one-timer side, though.

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02-15-2010, 04:49 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Is Goligoski's best PP position the right? I am not sold on that idea. He doesn't have a howitzer, and usually prefers the wrister. Nothing wrong with that, but you don't have to play the right side to get the puck on net. Niedermayer doesn't have a howitzer, and he can play either PP position. Markov isn't a great right-side PP blue-liner, but he's just about the best on the left side.

I think Goligoski has what it takes from a cerebral standpoint to quarterback our PP. Not sure he has the big shot to be on the one-timer side, though.
Yes. That is what he has played his entire hockey career. It's also not about the speed of shot but placement. Goligoski has shown the innate ability to get shots through heavy traffic.

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02-15-2010, 04:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Yes. That is what he has played his entire hockey career. It's also not about the speed of shot but placement. Goligoski has shown the innate ability to get shots through heavy traffic.
Exactly. You can get shots through on either point if you aren't one-timing a slapper. So, there's no need to absolutely be playing the right point. Hypothetically speaking, if Malkin and Goligoski are playing on the first PP unit next season, Geno needs to play the right side. No?

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02-15-2010, 05:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Exactly. You can get shots through on either point if you aren't one-timing a slapper. So, there's no need to absolutely be playing the right point. Hypothetically speaking, if Malkin and Goligoski are playing on the first PP unit next season, Geno needs to play the right side. No?
Putting Geno on the right point would be one way to combat the loss of Gonchar for sure, although Malkin is more known for his one timer than being able to step up and blast a bomb like Gonchar is. My only issue is that Malkin is vulnerable defensively on the point. Most forwards are, but Malkin in particular seems to be very nonchalant and doesn't recognize the dangers of playing the point. When he was playing the point earlier this year he made many bad pinches or didn't recognize that he needed to cover for the other defenseman in other situations. Kovalchuk and Ovechkin aren't known for their defense, but both are pretty responsible at the point on the PP. That's what we'd need from Malkin and I'm not sure if he could provide that.

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In my experience, there are things a player learns from watching, and there are things a player learns by doing. Goligoski playing the left point on the powerplay is not going to teach him how to play the right. I know this for a fact. The only way Goligoski gets better at manning the left point is by playing the left point.

Sure, he might get burned a few times, and the unit may sputter (probably not as bad as it already is), but he has shown enough, IMO, to warrant him getting a fair shake in that position, and has shown enough skill and intangibles to prove that he can handle it if given the chance.

I put the weight on Bylsma & Co.'s shoulders to bring a powerplay strategy that works to Goligoski's strength which may not be the same as Sarge's. Maybe that requires a shift in personnel. I have no idea. I just know I'm not about to bring in a veteran to run a powerplay when we have a kid who has proven to be capable if given the chance.
I'm merely suggesting that he needs to be brought along at his own pace. Throwing him right into the thick of things can be a risky proposition, it doesn't work for everybody. In fact it hasn't worked yet. I agree that Bylsma and the rest of the staff should optimize our PP strategy with Gogo to make the transition easier, but that's obviously easier said than done. I don't think based on what we've seen thus far that anybody should hold their breath on the powerplay changing or making any drastic improvements.

I don't really get how you can see he has proven to be capable of replacing Gonchar, either. Sure, the potential is there, but in the instances where he has been asked to fill in for Gonchar he hasn't exactly wowed anybody, certainly not me. The zone entries were pretty brutal and the entire powerplay looked out of sync. Like I said, the potential is there, but I would not go as far as to say that he has proven that he can QB our PP efficiently. He hasn't.

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02-15-2010, 05:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
'm merely suggesting that he needs to be brought along at his own pace. Throwing him right into the thick of things can be a risky proposition, it doesn't work for everybody. In fact it hasn't worked yet. I agree that Bylsma and the rest of the staff should optimize our PP strategy with Gogo to make the transition easier, but that's obviously easier said than done. I don't think based on what we've seen thus far that anybody should hold their breath on the powerplay changing or making any drastic improvements.

I don't really get how you can see he has proven to be capable of replacing Gonchar, either. Sure, the potential is there, but in the instances where he has been asked to fill in for Gonchar he hasn't exactly wowed anybody, certainly not me. The zone entries were pretty brutal and the entire powerplay looked out of sync. Like I said, the potential is there, but I would not go as far as to say that he has proven that he can QB our PP efficiently. He hasn't.
I think he did do well in his time playing in Gonchar's spot, and you even said, the reason why the powerplay didn't do well was because of the reasons I mentioned (teams not respecting Letang on the left point, and lack of slot presence). Goligoski has proven that he can do what he has to do to man a powerplay, and playing left point does not help him any further in becoming our future powerplay QB. Not one single iota.

When asked to step up for Sarge, he put up 7 points in 11 games and had a plus rating. I don't know what more you want from the kid. You can also look at it another way. Did the powerplay get significantly better when Sarge came back? My answer would be not really. All of the things you are saying looked wrong with the powerplay when Goligoski was running it are the exact same things that are problems when Gonchar is running it.

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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Exactly. You can get shots through on either point if you aren't one-timing a slapper. So, there's no need to absolutely be playing the right point. Hypothetically speaking, if Malkin and Goligoski are playing on the first PP unit next season, Geno needs to play the right side. No?
I don't know what the answer is. Geno has been played on the right side, and it hasn't worked. Something in the powerplay formation has to change. That much I do know.

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02-15-2010, 05:32 PM
  #60
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I like Goligoski to be our PP quarterback next season, but he wouldn't HAVE to play the right side to be the QB. Andrei Markov is one of the best in the business and he plays the left side. Tomas Kaberle is one of the best in the business and he plays the left side, too.

I just think a guy without a big goal-scoring shot shouldn't play the right side. Of course, if Letang and Goligoski are our two first-unit PP defensemen then yeah, Goligoski should play right.

But I'd much prefer Malkin for the one-timer, with Goligoski playing the Markov-Kaberle role on the left.

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02-15-2010, 05:40 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I like Goligoski to be our PP quarterback next season, but he wouldn't HAVE to play the right side to be the QB. Andrei Markov is one of the best in the business and he plays the left side. Tomas Kaberle is one of the best in the business and he plays the left side, too.

I just think a guy without a big goal-scoring shot shouldn't play the right side. Of course, if Letang and Goligoski are our two first-unit PP defensemen then yeah, Goligoski should play right.

But I'd much prefer Malkin for the one-timer, with Goligoski playing the Markov-Kaberle role on the left.
That's why I'm saying...a new powerplay strategy needs to be in place, though I'm not saying anything you don't already know.

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02-15-2010, 05:55 PM
  #62
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The PP this year and next sorely needs two things:

-A forward, preferably right handed that is a left half wall presence. (Selanne is the model of perfection here, also Whitney would be excellent)
-A more effective net front presence. (Goes without saying Billy G is on his last legs.)

If we had a Clowe and Selanne there'd be no doubt in my mind that our PP would be Top 5, if not 3.

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02-15-2010, 05:56 PM
  #63
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I think he did do well in his time playing in Gonchar's spot, and you even said, the reason why the powerplay didn't do well was because of the reasons I mentioned (teams not respecting Letang on the left point, and lack of slot presence). Goligoski has proven that he can do what he has to do to man a powerplay, and playing left point does not help him any further in becoming our future powerplay QB. Not one single iota.
Nobody knows exactly why the PP didn't do well, but it didn't look very good with Goligoski running it. The numbers support that.

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When asked to step up for Sarge, he put up 7 points in 11 games and had a plus rating. I don't know what more you want from the kid. You can also look at it another way. Did the powerplay get significantly better when Sarge came back? My answer would be not really. All of the things you are saying looked wrong with the powerplay when Goligoski was running it are the exact same things that are problems when Gonchar is running it.
Again - the powerplay did get better. I mentioned it before but the PP efficiency with Gonchar was much better than what it was when Letang and Gogo were running it.

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02-15-2010, 07:10 PM
  #64
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That is what makes this all so tricky. Deciding if t he team is just a piece or two away from repeating, and what the price tag for that can be.
I don't think anyone's repeating for the near future, so it's silly to give away parts for the short term, especially since we'd have mostly the same problems next season. But it's also weird that people think we can't do damage over a 7 game series with our lineup.

We hockey fans are bipolar.

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02-15-2010, 07:19 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Nobody knows exactly why the PP didn't do well, but it didn't look very good with Goligoski running it. The numbers support that.



Again - the powerplay did get better. I mentioned it before but the PP efficiency with Gonchar was much better than what it was when Letang and Gogo were running it.
The powerplay has been clipping at 14% until recently (29th in the league), and even now it's 16% (26th in the league). It became more efficient? Really?

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02-15-2010, 07:35 PM
  #66
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The powerplay has been clipping at 14% until recently (29th in the league), and even now it's 16% (26th in the league). It became more efficient? Really?
Gonchar missed 16 games, don't you think the fact that the powerplay was clicking at a whopping 7% without him has something to do with that? With Gonchar in the powerplay is hovering at around 18-20% this season.

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02-15-2010, 07:41 PM
  #67
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Gonchar missed 16 games, don't you think the fact that the powerplay was clicking at a whopping 7% without him has something to do with that? With Gonchar in the powerplay is hovering at around 18-20% this season.
But as I'm sure you've picked up by actually watching the PP - it's terrible.

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02-15-2010, 07:54 PM
  #68
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I agree with WVP. Gonchar, for whatever reason, hasn't been nearly as good at quarterbacking our PP this season. The other defenseman, whoever we have used, hasn't been very good, and the net presence player has been anything but present, Guerin seems lost on the PP no matter where we put him and even Geno and Sid have at times gotten in each other's way and been guilty of over-passing.

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02-15-2010, 07:55 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Gonchar missed 16 games, don't you think the fact that the powerplay was clicking at a whopping 7% without him has something to do with that? With Gonchar in the powerplay is hovering at around 18-20% this season.
Where on earth are you getting that from. With Gonchar, we're around 16%.

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02-15-2010, 08:03 PM
  #70
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Where on earth are you getting that from. With Gonchar, we're around 16%.
Also when talking about that stretch where Goligoski was forced to man Sarge's spot, one has to add some perspective. Including Goligoski playing a position he was accustomed to playing in the NHL, Letang was playing right point which he rarely played, Geno was out of the lineup, and Sid was said to be nursing an injury himself.

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Old
02-15-2010, 08:23 PM
  #71
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I would really like Dan to get the them to play two separate PP's with Crosby and Malkin running their own and get the competitive juices flowing to get the best out of them.

Kunitz, Crosby, Guerin
Letang, Gonchar/ switch the two pairings as needed.

Staal, Malkin, Kennedy
Eaton, Goligoski/ read pairing #1

1 minute each for each unit with who was on the ice drawing the PP gets the second shift.(freshness factor) Including the D-pairing.

I think it has been proven that there is a log jam of thinkers and not enough doer's.

Team ends up staying fresher and more free flowing.

Players need to understand that the team comes first and logging almost the whole 2 minutes drains the main players for a good 5 minutes after the PP is over. Its time for Dan to run the team and not the players, who cares if a player gets upset because he is not on which ever PP unit. When it shows more life because they are fresher will eventually win them over. Use all your assets available or why even have them on the team.

All their eggs in one basket has not worked, like at all. It worked when they were split up. I know this is nothing new, but have they not tried everything else?


Down the stretch drive, use 7 D-man and keep them fresh.

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02-15-2010, 08:34 PM
  #72
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Where on earth are you getting that from. With Gonchar, we're around 16%.

No that's where we are overall. The power play without Gonchar were that bad... He's right. It was aroud 19 % with Gonchar the last time I saw graphics about it.

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02-15-2010, 08:43 PM
  #73
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I like Sid and Geno together, I don't blame the sub-par power play on them being on the ice together. I blame the strategy/coaching and the complimentary personnel. Hopefully a deadline acquisition will help the top 6 as well as PP.

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02-15-2010, 08:59 PM
  #74
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I like Sid and Geno together, I don't blame the sub-par power play on them being on the ice together. I blame the strategy/coaching and the complimentary personnel. Hopefully a deadline acquisition will help the top 6 as well as PP.
Thats if they do a winger at the deadline, but from all I have seen from them, that right side is to heavily tilted.

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02-15-2010, 10:18 PM
  #75
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At this point in his career Guerin just doesn't belong on the top PP. I don't care if he has a right shot or not. He rarely uses it anyway. Most of the time when he's set up for a one timer he flubs it anyway. The only time he's useful is if he finds some garbage around the goal, and that has been few and far between this year.

What ever happened to using Kunitz on the PP? I remember when he was first traded for last season, he tipped in a few PP shots before Guerin replaced him. At least Kunitz would fight for puck possession along the boards (something Guerin does not do).

I think the PP is coming in the right direction with how they have a little bit more player movement. Guerin just doesn't fit into that mold though since he's not a guy who moves very well. I'd much rather see Kennedy out there on the right side if they really want a right handed shot.

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